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I hate them, they are the primadonnas of skillits.
I hae honestly not found what they do that is so great tht some of my ceramic skillets cant do just as well or even better.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I hate them, they are the primadonnas of skillits.
I hae honestly not found what they do that is so great tht some of my ceramic skillets cant do just as well or even better.
Steel (used in cast iron, carbon steel, or stainless steel) has a very high thermal mass. So it's great for searing, because when you put a cold thing in the pan, the pan's temperature doesn't drop as much. The downside is it also takes longer to heat up, which is why steel-based pans are always pre-heated.
Steel also radiates more light than other cooking materials. So you get more indirect cooking, like you typically do in an oven (helps a lot to get all-round crispy potatoes).
It's also a bad heat conductor. That can be a disadvantage, because you can get hot spots, which is why the bottom of some stainless steel pans are layered with better heat conductors (aluminum, or even copper). But in some cases it's viewed as a strong point, like in a wok where the bottom is much hotter than the sides, so you can control the cooking rate by moving the ingredients around.
Finally, the material itself is very durable and scratch-resistant (you can use metallic utensils, and even cut inside a steel pan). A cast iron or carbon steel pan's seasoning can be damaged, and is arguable harder to maintain than a typical non-stick aluminum pan. Stainless steel pans on the other hand are bomb proof (they're very common in professional kitchens).
hotsauceman1 wrote: I hate them, they are the primadonnas of skillits.
I hae honestly not found what they do that is so great tht some of my ceramic skillets cant do just as well or even better.
Steel (used in cast iron, carbon steel, or stainless steel)
Cast Iron and steel are distinct things. Both are iron alloys, but you don't get steel in cast iron, an object can only be one or the other and their properties are very different.
Cast iron retains heat fantastically and is incredibly consistent and resiliant - if it has hot spots, something very strange is going on. On the other hand, it weighs a ton, needs seasoning and care, and is reactive, so not good for cooking acidic foods unless it's enameled.
Different steel variants also differ a bit. Both stainless and carbon steel react quickly, are non-reactive, and can be cheap as chips (though cheap stainless steel often has hot spots). Carbon steel (the ideal wok material) requires even more seasoning and care than cast iron. Stainless steel is near indestructible (though can require a tough clean if you push your luck too far).
The show-offs choice for everything except dutch ovens, woks, and skillets, copper, is basically steel with all it's bad points removed. Not dishwasher safe and it's very expensive, though. The lid for my copper skillet is £200
2017/11/13 15:22:41
Subject: Re:Cooking Gadgetry. Whatcha got and why?
Yeah, I always thought of copper as the primadonna of skillets.
The fact that cast iron is so heavy and dense is what makes it heat evenly. Totally agree that if there's hot spots, you're doing something wrong.
I honestly don't understand how people have so many issues with cleaning it and stuff. I think it's one of the easier things to clean, and I have to be waaaay less gentle with it than I do my nonstick stuff.
nfe wrote:Cast iron retains heat fantastically and is incredibly consistent and resiliant - if it has hot spots, something very strange is going on.
daedalus wrote:The fact that cast iron is so heavy and dense is what makes it heat evenly. Totally agree that if there's hot spots, you're doing something wrong.
Heating evenly depends on the thermal conductivity, not on the thermal mass. And cast iron is a pretty bad heat conductor (compared to aluminum and copper). You can actually see that with an infrared thermometer, or this person did a nice example with flour: http://www.cookingissues.com/2010/02/16/heavy-metal-the-science-of-cast-iron-cooking/ .
Proper pre-heating will help tremendously, but it's still much harder to get a homogeneous temperature in the pan than it is in an aluminum pan.
nfe wrote:Cast iron retains heat fantastically and is incredibly consistent and resiliant - if it has hot spots, something very strange is going on.
daedalus wrote:The fact that cast iron is so heavy and dense is what makes it heat evenly. Totally agree that if there's hot spots, you're doing something wrong.
Heating evenly depends on the thermal conductivity, not on the thermal mass. And cast iron is a pretty bad heat conductor (compared to aluminum and copper). You can actually see that with an infrared thermometer, or this person did a nice example with flour: http://www.cookingissues.com/2010/02/16/heavy-metal-the-science-of-cast-iron-cooking/ .
Conductivity is irrelevant if you pre-heat cast iron properly. i.e. in the oven for a long time. So I'll still hold that if you have hot spots, you are doing something wrong.
All part of the skill of learning your appliances.
Seriously. I do baking now and again (not as much as I'd like). And knowing the 'personality' of your oven is more important than getting the recipe right for your dough or batter.
Some run hot, some cooler. Need to know how to adapt the cooking time on each dish to suit.
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nfe wrote:Cast iron retains heat fantastically and is incredibly consistent and resiliant - if it has hot spots, something very strange is going on.
daedalus wrote:The fact that cast iron is so heavy and dense is what makes it heat evenly. Totally agree that if there's hot spots, you're doing something wrong.
Heating evenly depends on the thermal conductivity, not on the thermal mass. And cast iron is a pretty bad heat conductor (compared to aluminum and copper). You can actually see that with an infrared thermometer, or this person did a nice example with flour: http://www.cookingissues.com/2010/02/16/heavy-metal-the-science-of-cast-iron-cooking/ .
Conductivity is irrelevant if you pre-heat cast iron properly. i.e. in the oven for a long time. So I'll still hold that if you have hot spots, you are doing something wrong.
Sure, if you think pre-heating a pan for an hour is practical…
2017/11/13 21:28:19
Subject: Re:Cooking Gadgetry. Whatcha got and why?
Just as practical as having to clean a non-stick pan for an hour after each time you use it, and having to hand wash each grain of rice before using a rice cooker.
For non-exaggeration purposes, it takes 10 minutes to preheat a cast iron skillet on the stove top. I'm guessing that most of the meals that people might cook in a pan require at least 10 minutes of prep-time, so it really doesn't result in any longer cooking process. Even if it's just a simple steak, just put the pan on the stove top at the same time that you are taking the steak out of the fridge to let it warm up before cooking it. By the time the chill is gone from the meat, the pan is ready for it.
Alternatively you can just take any other thin metal pan, crank the heat up to 11, take an ice cold steak from the fridge and put the cold meat against the tiny thermal mass to get a nice non-crusty soggy grey piece of meat. Feel free to cook it well-done while you are at it, since it's already ruined anyway
2017/11/13 21:29:45
Subject: Re:Cooking Gadgetry. Whatcha got and why?
nfe wrote:Cast iron retains heat fantastically and is incredibly consistent and resiliant - if it has hot spots, something very strange is going on.
daedalus wrote:The fact that cast iron is so heavy and dense is what makes it heat evenly. Totally agree that if there's hot spots, you're doing something wrong.
Heating evenly depends on the thermal conductivity, not on the thermal mass. And cast iron is a pretty bad heat conductor (compared to aluminum and copper). You can actually see that with an infrared thermometer, or this person did a nice example with flour: http://www.cookingissues.com/2010/02/16/heavy-metal-the-science-of-cast-iron-cooking/ .
Conductivity is irrelevant if you pre-heat cast iron properly. i.e. in the oven for a long time. So I'll still hold that if you have hot spots, you are doing something wrong.
Sure, if you think pre-heating a pan for an hour is practical…
Who said anything about practical? If you don't want to spend the time doing it right, then obviously don't bother using cast iron skillets or dutch ovens?
Now, that said, if you buy good cast iron, five minutes on a hot burner will do the job anyway.
2017/11/13 21:38:04
Subject: Re:Cooking Gadgetry. Whatcha got and why?
Ouze wrote: I haven't experienced the hot spot issued described in the article, but I have a very large burner as my primary cooking surface.
I think for most of the cases of cast iron "hot spots" it's simply a case of "I didn't actually preheat my pan". Cast iron is great at getting hot, but gakky at conducting that heat to other parts of the pan. A thin pan put over a heat source will heat up over that heat source really quick, and then spread that heat to the rest of the metal just as quickly and when something cold goes into that pan the metal is going to cool off below that cold food and take heat away from the rest of the pan. A cold cast iron pan put over a heat source will take a little longer to heat up, then it will get really hot over the heat source, and then take a long time to take that heat and move it to the rest of the pan. The same "take a long time to heat up" property then also holds onto that head when a cold food hit it and lets you get that crusty sear on a steak because the metal is still hot after the cold meat soaks up the thermal energy. So yeah, I guess the lesson from that article is not "cast iron is bad and has hot spots" and more "don't start to cook food in a cold cast-iron pan".
I have a cast-iron enamel glazed dutch oven that I use for pasta for that same reason. It takes it a bit longer to heat up than a regular pot, but by the time the water boils the iron has soaked up so much thermal energy that by the time the cold pasta hits the boiling water the pot keeps that temperature drop to a minimum and I don't end up with non-boiling water for 5 minutes.
2017/11/13 22:07:19
Subject: Re:Cooking Gadgetry. Whatcha got and why?
Alternatively you can just take any other thin metal pan, crank the heat up to 11, take an ice cold steak from the fridge and put the cold meat against the tiny thermal mass to get a nice non-crusty soggy grey piece of meat. Feel free to cook it well-done while you are at it, since it's already ruined anyway
Steak is just Sub-par meat anyway. Its just a slab of meat with nothing too it. Not much of a way to make it better.
Now cured meats and sausages.....
But yeah. Need to get meself a Wok, and looking for a very general consensus.
Is it better to get a cheap one, and replace with similar once wrecked, or is it a better economy to splurge out a bit more and get a more expensive one?
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Instant Pot X2 just because it's that handy.
Rice cooker
Electric skillet
2 crock pots
Silicone baking sheets. Gods, those things are brilliant.
Vitamix, for blending down my special needs son's tube feeds
Kitchen Aid stand mixer
But would you like to know what my true secret weapon of the kitchen is?
White pepper.
Seriously, NOBODY ever uses the stuff. I stumbled onto it when we were doing a battalion exercise that my kitchen was feeding, and I took it to the scrambled eggs, with salt and a hint of garlic. Visiting commanders pulled me off to the side SPECIFICALLY because of the eggs, and requested the method be passed to their food service specialists.
It also works really well on hash browns, or any fried potato really.
Oh, I know. I used to not really dabble with cooking until I became an Army cook. Then it was everything to spice up whatever we had.
We once got a shipment of breakfast steaks in a meal kit, with no seasoning. We couldn't season, marinade, NOTHING. I noticed our leftover supplies from the previous night's meal and asked "Can't we marinate the steaks in that Italian dressing?" Turned out to be some of the tastiest steak I've ever made.
Is it better to get a cheap one, and replace with similar once wrecked, or is it a better economy to splurge out a bit more and get a more expensive one?
I wouldn't spend a ton on one, but you don't need to in order to get one that'll last forever. I think I bought mine for about 20 USD, roughly 10 years ago. It's carbon steel, so it's a little bit more maintenance (similar, but more difficult to season) than cast iron. The inside of it is still largely unseasoned after all this time even, but it doesn't rust if you rinse it off immediately after cooking with it and then dry it off.
Just don't get one of the nonstick ones. But I could say that about anything other than maybe a pasta pot... maybe.
If you don't know if you are going to use a tool that much, just get a cheap tool from Harbor Freight (cheap price, gak quality). If you end up using it enough to break it, replace it with a quality tool.
You can follow that advice for a lot of cooking gadgets as well.
I mean, it's no Full English, but man. Steak for brekkie.
What I'd REALLY go for is eggs over medium, rashers, black and white pudding, bangers, and some chips. THAT is a good breakfast. But no soda bread, never could develop a taste for that.
Failing that, as I fry up corned beef hash, JUST as it's starting to turn crispy, I dump three eggs that I've already beaten into the skillet and scramble them straight into the hash. Glorious.
And a good third place would be scrambled eggs covered in shredded hash browns, covered in ground sausage, covered in sausage gravy, covered in shredded cheese. Muenster is my fave, but cojack or cheddar will work in a pinch.
But I must politely disagree on certain things in the kitchen. Blenders and that should be of reasonable quality - the difference between cheap and reasonably priced stuff is quite marked (less powerful motors etc)
Pans tend to be fairly disposable though, hence the question. I understand professional chefs don't shell out on top of the range. They instead need something that'll do the job and stand up to a battering before being replaced.
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If you don't know if you are going to use a tool that much, just get a cheap tool from Harbor Freight (cheap price, gak quality). If you end up using it enough to break it, replace it with a quality tool.
Heh, most of my NICER tools are cheap tools from harbor freight. The little drill press I bought from them is still going strong no matter how many drill bits I melt down in it.
...on the topic of kitchen gadgets and harbor freight tools, for Christmas I made my mother and two sisters some personalized cutlery.
I started with some stock Chicago Cutlery knives that I knocked the cheap handles off of. I electrolytically etched their names on the blades, replaced the handles with actual hardwood and pinned them with waterproof epoxy and brass rod. That brand seems to already have a good edge starting out, but I put a somewhat keener than normal edge on it with my detail grinder, and they're good to go. Mom's isn't pictured because I was still getting the reverse D grip on it (because she's a lefty).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/08 15:34:38
I have some old fashioned cast iron pots and pans, a fairly nice wok, and an outdoor turkey deep fryer set up. Other than that, just the usual most folks have like a gas grill, charcoal grill, etc.
My mother loves her George Foreman grills.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/09 20:29:26
But I must politely disagree on certain things in the kitchen. Blenders and that should be of reasonable quality - the difference between cheap and reasonably priced stuff is quite marked (less powerful motors etc)
Pans tend to be fairly disposable though, hence the question. I understand professional chefs don't shell out on top of the range. They instead need something that'll do the job and stand up to a battering before being replaced.
Between my military career, my music "career", and my machining career, I cannot speak enough of the dangers and waste of cheaping out for any equipment you may need. I'm eyeballing a couple of LTDs that were made recently that are $1,000 US each. I could get a Squier or other budget brand guitar for under $200, but I am willing to pay more for quality. Kitchen appliances are right up there. You know what you get when you buy a $10 stand mixer? A $10 paper weight in a year as early as six months. Not worth it, best to drop $300+ on a Kitchen Aid from the beginning and be done with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 08:53:48
5000pts 
6000pts 
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