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Made in pl
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

Not to mention the IoM has an extensive degree of genetic knowledge- they can use all kinds of GM crops to provide an adequate nutritional mix.

Primary Army: 96th Steel Legion 2nd Company and supporting elements. Led by Captain Kowalski.

Ongoing GW plastics in HH background research thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661198.page#8072577

 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






 Irbis wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Wrong. Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition. In that he is entirely correct. There are only two ways to counteract this - either you eat very carefully monitored, varied diet of plants from at least 4 continents that do happen to contain most of the needed nutrients (some of which, ironically, have to be shuttled daily on planes to supermarkets in rich countries, greatly contributing to your carbon footprint and utterly destroying any ecological benefit from not eating meat) or you need to eat diet supplement pills by a handful to get multiple vitamins that are only present in meat and/or only soluble in fat. It's very telling that before modern era there were cultures adapted to 100% meat diet (Inuits) but there was literally none adapted to 100% plant diet, they always got at least some animal-origin nutrients from somewhere. That is not to say vegetarian diet can't exist in 40K, hive world would probably manufacture said diet supplements by a bucketful and generously slop them on algae wafers or whatever.

As for claim dying of malnutrition is not a thing, this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to this:

http://www.rense.com/general13/malni.htm
https://www.vegan.com/blog/angelina-jolie-claims-vegan-diet-nearly-killed-her/


Curious, considering that vegetarianism has been around since at least ancient Greece and India with little evidence of malnutrition, despite not having access to 'plants from 4 continents'.

Correct that we have evolved with an omnivorous diet with a significant meat proportion, but that's primarily because meat is efficient for the effort required to procure it on an individual level. Since the advent of agriculture it's perfectly possible to ensure adequate nutrition from plants alone with sod all additional management.

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Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Irbis wrote:
Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition.

Damn I'm going to die soon .
Well, eating all those pasta was still worth it .

On my grave I want my epitaph to be “Irbis was right and also India doesn't exist and stuff!”

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





North Carolina

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition.

Damn I'm going to die soon .
Well, eating all those pasta was still worth it .

On my grave I want my epitaph to be “Irbis was right and also India doesn't exist and stuff!”




If you eat beans and peanuts, you are getting key nutrients that is normally found in meat. That's how vegetarians manage to get by without dying from malnutrition.


But Ibris is right. A 100% pure veggie diet is not a good idea, health wise. Like I said before, Humans are omnivores. Not herbivores.

On the flip side, we're not carnivores either. So, a strictly meat diet isn't a good idea either.
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 Haighus wrote:
Not to mention the IoM has an extensive degree of genetic knowledge- they can use all kinds of GM crops to provide an adequate nutritional mix.


Assuming its not against some random ad mech or munitorium policy.

besides good chance that 90% of crops probably just end up being ground into shelf stable nutrition paste. probably a ton of bugs fungus and plant matter and stock animals.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in cz
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian





Somewhere... over the rainbow

 oldravenman3025 wrote:



Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.


In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.

You don't need plant products though. Humans can easily thrive on meat alone (historically, many arctic cultures never had access to plants at all). We can also thrive on plants alone, but as has been mentioned in this thread already, this is much more precarious and either takes careful planning or the liberal use of food supplements.
I 40k, I imagine most of the average hive worlder's diet would be vegetarian (plants are more cost effective) in origin, but they certainly would not get any fresh vegetable or the like. They'd more likely get food in powdered form and such. I could also imagine things like synthetic meat being a big thing.

А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Speaking of synthetic meat

just tried the impossible burger.

not bad. but the texture is off and it has a odd bean after taste.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in pl
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 oldravenman3025 wrote:



Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.


In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.

You don't need plant products though. Humans can easily thrive on meat alone (historically, many arctic cultures never had access to plants at all). We can also thrive on plants alone, but as has been mentioned in this thread already, this is much more precarious and either takes careful planning or the liberal use of food supplements.
I 40k, I imagine most of the average hive worlder's diet would be vegetarian (plants are more cost effective) in origin, but they certainly would not get any fresh vegetable or the like. They'd more likely get food in powdered form and such. I could also imagine things like synthetic meat being a big thing.

As far as I understand, humans do not easily adapt to eating solely meat diets. The Artic peoples are actually heavily adapted to their environments, and have a greater tolerance for eating oily fish than the majority of people. This oily fish is what they need to get sufficient nutrition from an all-meat diet, but it is also what would kill less adapted humans. Fish oils have an anti-coagulant effect, and eating the quantities of fish Inuits eat causes most people to become hypocoagulable and die of anaemia and blood loss (in the time span of months to a few years). Inuits actually often do die due to bleeds of some kind, but they are less susceptible to this than non-Artic populations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 23:48:54


Primary Army: 96th Steel Legion 2nd Company and supporting elements. Led by Captain Kowalski.

Ongoing GW plastics in HH background research thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661198.page#8072577

 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If you eat beans and peanuts, you are getting key nutrients that is normally found in meat.

I'm pretty sure beans and peanuts aren't meat and are perfectly fine in a vegetarian diet though.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
A 100% pure veggie diet is not a good idea, health wise.

Meh eating pasta every evening isn't a good idea health wise doesn't stop me it's good and easy to cook.

   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 oldravenman3025 wrote:
A 100% pure veggie diet is not a good idea, health wise.

Meh eating pasta every evening isn't a good idea health wise doesn't stop me it's good and easy to cook.

If Italians can manage it, it can't be that bad for you- Italians have a great life expectancy!

https://youtu.be/tHKOsdLB4HE

Primary Army: 96th Steel Legion 2nd Company and supporting elements. Led by Captain Kowalski.

Ongoing GW plastics in HH background research thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661198.page#8072577

 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Haighus wrote:
If Italians can manage it, it can't be that bad for you- Italians have a great life expectancy!

Italians don't eat pasta every evening, else how would they find time to eat pizza?
Wait I eat pizza too!
And I eat ice-cream too!
I have a very healthy diet. Really healthy! Nice.
I'm a very stable genius.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/08 16:23:16


   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Haighus wrote:
If Italians can manage it, it can't be that bad for you- Italians have a great life expectancy!

Italians don't eat pasta every evening, else how would they find time to eat pizza?

By eating pasta at lunch. Then you have time for pizza too I joke but the guy in the video suggests eating pasta everyday is actually the norm in parts of Italy.
Wait I eat pizza too!
And I eat ice-cream too!
I have a very healthy diet. Really healthy! Nice.
I'm a very stable genius.

Sounds better than my diet...

Primary Army: 96th Steel Legion 2nd Company and supporting elements. Led by Captain Kowalski.

Ongoing GW plastics in HH background research thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661198.page#8072577

 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





Well this noon I made myself a special delicacy. In my home town it's called a "Belgian". It's taking a baguette (famous French bread), opening it, putting ketchup and mayonnaise and plenty of french fries, and then eating it.
I'll live old and slim for sure .

   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 oldravenman3025 wrote:



Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.


In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.

You don't need plant products though. Humans can easily thrive on meat alone (historically, many arctic cultures never had access to plants at all). We can also thrive on plants alone, but as has been mentioned in this thread already, this is much more precarious and either takes careful planning or the liberal use of food supplements.
I 40k, I imagine most of the average hive worlder's diet would be vegetarian (plants are more cost effective) in origin, but they certainly would not get any fresh vegetable or the like. They'd more likely get food in powdered form and such. I could also imagine things like synthetic meat being a big thing.


I'd imagine it would be fairly easy to grow mushrooms in the underhive, too.
You'd get vitamin B from those, and there have been experiments with giving them texture (like chicken - back in the early 90s).

I'm 49.
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






UK

Damn. This thread is making me have hungry.

But I can't decide what for...

Skinflint Games- war gaming in the age of austerity

www.skinflintgames.co.uk 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It should be noted that some regiments like the Mordant Acid Dogs come from places where the main form of sustenance is fortified algae.

Since 40k is fiction and doesn't have to follow any actual dietery laws, I bet there are tons of worlds whose grimdark is that they only have a single food source - some of which will be animal and some of which will be plant based.

Bender wrote:* Realise that despite the way people talk, this is not a professional sport played by demi gods, but rather a game of toy soldiers played by tired, inebriated human beings.


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

They ask, "Are you sure, sir?" when they serve you this 5-shots of espresso bladder-busting monstrosity that will have you so awake you will smell the color of dead terrorists.
 
   
Made in us
Hollerin' Herda with Squighound Pack






Not sure if this has been brought up, But I seem to recall a Lexicanum article on the Imperium keeping alien cattle known as "Grox".

Here's a link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grox

EDIT: Ah! I remembered something else; I believe we've seen the evolution of the tau within the time humans have lived among the stars in the 40k universe. Seems plausible that some Humans on other planets would have evolved to eat different things available, some might even have become herbivores or carnivores.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/10 02:50:34


 
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 Lazzamore wrote:
Not sure if this has been brought up, But I seem to recall a Lexicanum article on the Imperium keeping alien cattle known as "Grox".

Here's a link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grox

EDIT: Ah! I remembered something else; I believe we've seen the evolution of the tau within the time humans have lived among the stars in the 40k universe. Seems plausible that some Humans on other planets would have evolved to eat different things available, some might even have become herbivores or carnivores.


humans have evolved over time, it's where abhumans such as ratlings, ogyrens and squats all come from

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Did a lot of research before I became vegan. The only supplement which is recommended is B12 (this website summerises veganism and nutrients: https://www.peta.org/living/food/vegan-101-guide-for-new-vegans/vegans-guide-good-nutrition/) . Additionally, there are lots of scientific studies saying veganism results in a longer life. Meanwhile, the amount of resources required in terms of land and water is much less than meat and slightly less than vegetarian.

If the Imperium aims to maximise efficiency then veganism is an excellent option because, compared to meat diets, it would allow normal (or even extended) life of its citizens whilst using up less resources to feed those citizens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/12 13:01:00


 
   
Made in nl
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian





Somewhere... over the rainbow

 Samsonov wrote:
Did a lot of research before I became vegan. The only supplement which is recommended is B12 (this website summerises veganism and nutrients: https://www.peta.org/living/food/vegan-101-guide-for-new-vegans/vegans-guide-good-nutrition/) . Additionally, there are lots of scientific studies saying veganism results in a longer life. Meanwhile, the amount of resources required in terms of land and water is much less than meat and slightly less than vegetarian.

If the Imperium aims to maximise efficiency then veganism is an excellent option because, compared to meat diets, it would allow normal (or even extended) life of its citizens whilst using up less resources to feed those citizens.

And there are plenty of scientific studies saying exactly the opposite, that it has no health effects or is even detrimental (like there is a study suggesting vegetarians are at increased risk of lung cancer). You can find a scientific study proving X is good or bad for your health for almost everything, so always take it with a big pinch of . Especially if you take information from PETA.
Afaik, the mainstream scientific opinion still suggests that a varied and balanced diet including fish and unprocessed meat is optimal. Everything in moderation and with plenty of exercise of course.
Luckily, Imperial citizens will get plenty of exercise while working 25-hour shifts for the glory of the Emperor. A balanced and varied diet? Probably not at all.

А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






 Iron_Captain wrote:

And there are plenty of scientific studies saying exactly the opposite


Very true, most biomedical research is at best tentative and large scale studies have a tendency of giving different results depending on various specifics of each experiment or due or varying populations being targeted. This is why I said veganism "would allow normal (or even extended) life of its citizens". I'm in for ethical reasons but it was nice to know there is no strong evidence that is reduces life expectancy.

Also, significant forces in the 40K universe take a monkish approach, such as space marines, sisters of battle, adeptus mechanicus. Monks often (in theory at least) favour a simple life without pleasure to consentrate on worship and I could easily imagine significant parts of the Imperium doing likewise. Hence meat might be considered too much of a luxury.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/12 17:17:57


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






But marines can eat the flesh of their enemies to gain their knowledge.

wait does that mean a marine eating say a juicy steak will suddenly remember green pastures?

but yeah in theory 99% of the imperium would be eating mostly nutrition paste which probably contains mostly insects and vegetables. with the occasional nutrition rat and house hold pets.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in nl
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian





Somewhere... over the rainbow

Space Marines eat their own poo. This is totally still canon.

А сегодня, что для завтра сделал Я?
But today I don't feel like doing anything... 
   
Made in gb
Cunning Dark Elf Sorceress




Bristol

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Space Marines eat their own poo. This is totally still canon.


So much for their advanced physiology. Can't even get all the nutrients and calories the first time through

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Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





armagedon

 Melissia wrote:
 Cream Tea wrote:
Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required
Debatable. A large number of vegetarian staples are inefficient, especially regarding calories provided compared to water used. In fact, most vegetables are very inefficient calorie-wise, making them unsuitable for prolonged heavy labor as needed by the Imperium's citizens.


Debatable you say, that’s odd everything I’ve read is to the contrary, so I say ok, let’s just google up some professional opinion.

The following is taken from a report by a professor on the cost of american farming (this is not vegan nonsense propaganda, no offence to anyone intended)

‘’Animal protein production requires more than eight times as much fossil-fuel energy than production of plant protein while yielding animal protein that is only 1.4 times more nutritious for humans than the comparable amount of plant protein’’

‘’If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million‘’

‘’beef cattle production requires an energy input to protein output ratio of 54:1‘’

‘’Grain-fed beef production takes 100,000 liters of water for every kilogram of food‘’

‘’In comparison, soybean production uses 2,000 liters for kilogram of food produced; rice, 1,912; wheat, 900; and potatoes, 500’’

David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences

This doesn’t take in to account the land needed to both grow the animals food and raise graze farm slaughter the animals and the impact they have on erosion, waste production, greenhouse gas. Simply put animals are tasty but wasteful, to think otherwise is to kid your self.

In all likeliness if it was ‘real’ they’d need to use every scrap they could so production of biofilm, algae, insects, fungus and recycled material would be very likely, only the rich could have real meat and fresh fruit. Some worlds isolated from the grind of the imperium however would be no different to here and everything would be on the table in a manner of speaking.


3500pts1500pts2500pts4500pts3500pts2000pts 2000pts plus several small AOS armies  
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Doesn't seem like Melissia was saying that meat was better than vegetables but that a good portion of vegetables dont really provide much nutrition. and there are plenty that dont. (feth lettuces)

" biofilm, algae, insects, fungus and recycled material"

these are definitely the things that will be done on the most indoctrinated of worlds and pretty much all IG.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/12 18:20:41


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 Zognob Gorgoff wrote:
Simply put animals are tasty but wasteful, to think otherwise is to kid your self.

I am firmly in the crops are more efficient than meat camp, but with current tech it is not entirely true to say this. There is a lot of marginal land that is not suited to growing crops, but is able to sustain animal husbandry (the most obvious is goats, sheep and llamas in very mountainous regions). Sheep and llamas are a very interesting example because they also provide an extremely useful natural product (wool) during their life cycle, further driving up the utility.

Obviously, within the context of 40k this is only useful on less developed worlds, so civilised, death, feral and feudal worlds (which would be eating diets similar to ours on Earth today). Anything beyond that and the industrial capacity and technological means would allow the marginal lands to be heavily modified into productive land. Hive world food production is obviously entirely artificial (and supplemented by offworld supplies from agri-worlds), as the natural biosphere on such planets is devastated beyond any capacity to sustain typical agriculture and husbandry.

Also, the question of achieving adequate nutrition really is not comparable to today, because the "crops"* used are guaranteed to have 30,000 more years of selective breeding and genetic modification over what we have today. Most worlds will likely have a single crop that produces the correct nutrition mix for humans to survive off, probably with variants for specific jobs and roles (labourers having a greater calorific content in their diet than office workers for example). The alternative is growing several crops that are mixed in different proportions for different workers, but there would still likely only be a handful of crops. The crops grown will most likely vary between sectors, and between the specific conditions on each planet.

We do know that the Imperium will unsustainably strip meat and other foodstuffs from undeveloped worlds, as shown in the Ravenor series, although such meat is likely sold as a luxury product only available to the middle class equivalent at the least.

This is all from an organised perspective, in terms of the primary ways populations are fed on Imperial worlds. Obviously most hivers are not just going to eat their assigned gruel, but also spend their creds on rats-on-a-stick or mushrooms or alcohol etc, but these would be add-ons rather than the primary food source.

*Using this term loosely to describe something being grown. I would think algae films/vats would be most likely, with entirely artificial nutrient vats also being possible.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/12 18:43:00


Primary Army: 96th Steel Legion 2nd Company and supporting elements. Led by Captain Kowalski.

Ongoing GW plastics in HH background research thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661198.page#8072577

 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Oh speaking of vats

just realized dkok uses horses. so thats one utility animal they do raise.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot




York (Uni) or Shrewsbury (home), England

 Desubot wrote:
Oh speaking of vats

just realized dkok uses horses. so thats one utility animal they do raise.


"Horses" They are pretty heavily GM and are also grown in vats, as you mention. Like many of the DKoK themselves, funnily enough.

Primary Army: 96th Steel Legion 2nd Company and supporting elements. Led by Captain Kowalski.

Ongoing GW plastics in HH background research thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/661198.page#8072577

 Bruticus wrote:
I really just wanted to make this exact model and I don't know what I would do if he turned out to be a smelly, one-legged frog with a shotgun p*nis.
I still don't understand the context of this phrase... but Slaanesh! 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Vat grown meat

i love it.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
 
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