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Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived




On moon miranda.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Another funny excuse I've heard about banning FW from tournaments:

"Not everyone has access to the stuff for those models like they do a regular unit in the Codex"

People whining because they can't research everyone's list at the bookshelf at the FLGS.
especially amusing given that books come shrinkwrapped now

Nobody seemed to apply this logic to anything but FW ever. When Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle were mail order direct only for years, nobody wanted to ban them. Nobody seemes to think all the 7E dataslates that could only be obtained through GW's digital offerings should be banned because theyre not available in a store.


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

Heavy Gear Painting Log, Northern Guard, Southern Republican Army, and Terrain
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ute nation

You know there is another reason why FLGS ban forgeworld, and it might be the most important of them, they don't make money off of forge world. Tournaments are a form of advertisement, you see the units that look cool on the tabletop and have fun rules, and then you can purchase them from the store. Forge world is like advertising for someone competing with you.

Necrons - 4k
Dark angels - 2k


"You know what they say about brute force, if it's not working you are not using enough of it" 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Baltimore, MD

 Vaktathi wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Another funny excuse I've heard about banning FW from tournaments:

"Not everyone has access to the stuff for those models like they do a regular unit in the Codex"

People whining because they can't research everyone's list at the bookshelf at the FLGS.
especially amusing given that books come shrinkwrapped now

Nobody seemed to apply this logic to anything but FW ever. When Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle were mail order direct only for years, nobody wanted to ban them. Nobody seemes to think all the 7E dataslates that could only be obtained through GW's digital offerings should be banned because theyre not available in a store.



So, there's clearly a gap between why people ban FW, and why they say, although I don't think the gap is as big as people indicate. the implication seems to be that banning FW is due to laziness, or some sort of malice, or intellectual malaise. I think it's probably more due to not caring all that much, and not seeing allowing FW as having benefits in excess of the hassle.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 11,000pts
Cygnar: 350pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 Polonius wrote:
Why is that a bad reason? 40k is a game of open information, right?


Because it's not my fault someone's compulsion to see every unit in the game isn't as strong as their wallet or Google-fu. You don't have access to the book that my unit's in? Too bad, I've got the book if you or a judge wants to check it, otherwise 'git gud m8'.

 Vaktathi wrote:
especially amusing given that books come shrinkwrapped now


I've heard this rumor but I'm pretty sure I've seen about half of them shrink-wrapped.

 Grimgold wrote:
You know there is another reason why FLGS ban forgeworld, and it might be the most important of them, they don't make money off of forge world. Tournaments are a form of advertisement, you see the units that look cool on the tabletop and have fun rules, and then you can purchase them from the store. Forge world is like advertising for someone competing with you.


Yep. And every GW store except one I've been to disallows or discourages Forge World on their tables. Not to mention, I've had them ask me not to use models with third-party bits -sorry I don't want to spend $33.00 for 10 Black Templar shoulderpads when I can get a box of 40 for less. Sorry I wanted a different head on the little plastic man I bought from you. Looks like I'll have to play at the FLGS where they have more than 4 pieces of terrain and three tables instead of one. Woe, woe is me!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 16:37:22


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Polonius wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Another funny excuse I've heard about banning FW from tournaments:

"Not everyone has access to the stuff for those models like they do a regular unit in the Codex"

People whining because they can't research everyone's list at the bookshelf at the FLGS.
especially amusing given that books come shrinkwrapped now

Nobody seemed to apply this logic to anything but FW ever. When Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle were mail order direct only for years, nobody wanted to ban them. Nobody seemes to think all the 7E dataslates that could only be obtained through GW's digital offerings should be banned because theyre not available in a store.



So, there's clearly a gap between why people ban FW, and why they say, although I don't think the gap is as big as people indicate. the implication seems to be that banning FW is due to laziness, or some sort of malice, or intellectual malaise. I think it's probably more due to not caring all that much, and not seeing allowing FW as having benefits in excess of the hassle.


Right. This is all I've been saying: people's reasons for banning FW are clearly intellectually dishonest, because every argument I've ever heard in favor of it is objectively false.

"Not caring all that much" isn't why you ban something; in fact, with that sort of chill attitude, I'd expect someone who "doesn't care all that much" to allow anything and everything because it's neat and cool, rather than arbitrarily banning stuff because he "doesn't care."

And the problem with FW "having benefits in excess of the hassle" is that.... it doesn't. That's not a call that a TO gets to make, because the TO doesn't have to deal with Forge World at all, except to ensure that people who bring it also bring their rules. It's literally not a hassle for him at all, and the "benefit" is that people can play awesome things that they enjoy that you'd otherwise ban for this "hassle" that doesn't exist.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight




FW is not automatically known to new GW players. Those players are aware that some GW products are only available online at the GW website. There's no direct link to Forge World so there's no reason for a newby to even know that Forge World even exists.
Also I have seen stores ban tournaments of products that they don't sell. This is the same rationale as banning FW.
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Man, you've been to some bad GWs. The only one in my area has painted FW models displayed in store, allows you to use whatever you want (short of a model made mostly of third party bits).

I don't think there's any tournaments in Vancouver that blanket ban FW. Maybe they follow ITC's direction and ban things like Warhound and Phantom level FW, but that's about it.

EDIT: There is a link to Forge World on GW's webstore, right at the bottom.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 16:44:34


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
FW is not automatically known to new GW players. Those players are aware that some GW products are only available online at the GW website. There's no direct link to Forge World so there's no reason for a newby to even know that Forge World even exists.
Also I have seen stores ban tournaments of products that they don't sell. This is the same rationale as banning FW.


1) This is true. But is that a reason to ban it? Some new players may have been attracted by Forge World alone (me!), and "not knowing it exists" is a reason to teach, not to ban. Forge World isn't some arcane hidden knowledge that only the initiated are allowed to know. Just teach them, don't ban everyone else from enjoying it. (and yes, there is a link to the FW Website on GW's website).

2) As long as this is applied consistently, e.g. to third party bits/models that they don't stock or sell and whatnot.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/03 16:46:32


Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
ITT: Baneblades and their variants are "degenerate" but every other non-unique LoW is fine.


Eldar Wraithknights and Ork Gargants are overpriced and bad, Knights are mediocre. That covers pretty much all of the GW titans. Baneblade variants are the only ones that are degenerate.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Polonius wrote:
Of course it's more difficult than buying Citadel models or rules. It's not a grueling task, but at the very least it's far more expensive. I can buy a GW codex online, at various stores, on ebay, shipped to my house, or with pick up at a GW shop. Unless I'm really dumb, I'll be getting free shipping and two day delivery. FW orders take a week or more, and you pay a lot for shipping.


"More expensive" and "more difficult" are not the same thing. FW is more expensive, but so are a lot of "main GW" products. Is it reasonable to ban any kit that costs more than $30, because it's more expensive to buy them?

There is no good reason GW couldn't stock the FW Indexes. That they choose not to continues to create the air that it's a separate product.


The reason is that it's a lower-volume product, and it doesn't make financial sense to print enough additional copies to give each store a sufficient inventory.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Fafnir wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
ITT: Baneblades and their variants are "degenerate" but every other non-unique LoW is fine.


Eldar Wraithknights and Ork Gargants are overpriced and bad, Knights are mediocre. That covers pretty much all of the GW titans. Baneblade variants are the only ones that are degenerate.


So degenerate = good?

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Polonius wrote:
I've ordered from Amazon, and I've ordered from FW. I feel pretty comfortable saying which one was easier and more convenient. I'm not saying you have to navigate to the ends of the earth and survive the trial by fire to buy FW, but let's not pretend it's as easy as Amazon, and certainly not as easy as buying citadel models.


What exactly is more difficult about it? Other than the search/browse system, which is the same horrible interface that the main GW store uses, it's almost exactly the same. Add items to your cart, click check out, provide your payment information. If Amazon is more convenient it's only because you probably order from there more often, and have your credit card and address information saved already instead of having to type it in.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

I disagree with banning FW from events, but to be honest, GW should sell FW rules, and have them availible from normal 3rd party retailers for discounts, etc...
I understand don't making that with models because FW is more "niche" and don't have the production capability to supply all those retailers. But I don't think FW's books are made in-house. Theres no reason they can't make more on China and sell them like normal GW books.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
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 Crazyterran wrote:
Man, you've been to some bad GWs. The only one in my area has painted FW models displayed in store, allows you to use whatever you want (short of a model made mostly of third party bits).


Imagine, if you will:

You're playing in a GW store. You have four thousand dollars in spending money from your deployment, and you want to get more Warhammer 40k stuff.

You're on a table, with some other guy that wants to show you how to really use that Deathwatch army you've got. You're playing through the game, having fun...

...and here comes Skurky McSalesdude after every turn.

"So I see you have X and Y, have you taken a look at the Z? Do you want me to put it up front for you with some brushes and paint?"

EVERY. DAMNED. TURN.

Imagine now, taking $4000 and going across town to spend it at the FLGS instead.

If the guy had been like, "Hey, I see what you're doing. If you really want to flesh out this army, it would help to add in some [insert models]. They can really add the blah blah blah blah", I'd have bought stuff. But he was acting more like an overbearing 'just buy this thing' guy than a GW representative that cared about the game.

Oh, this hasn't just happened once. It's happened at every GW store I've been to except one. Pushy, pushy, pushy- I've walked in with a literal shopping list and they still keep trying to shove unrelated stuff on me.
]
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Ellicott City, MD

Let me start by saying that I think banning FW now in *8th* is silly, but previously I could understand it. Being able to find the rules in 7th and earlier editions was a nightmare, which of the 8+ FW books have the rules for some particular model made it extremely difficult to keep track of all of the FW rules.

Now in 8th, there are three books with *all* of the rules and it is very clear in which books the rules for which units exist. In addition to this you can buy them digitally now so you don't even need to wait a week or two for delivery. Also FW is on the same FAQ schedule that normal GW is on.

I know 8th hasn't been out for all that long so some people may be holding onto previous opinions based on how things were before 8th edition but I have a hard time believing that anyone that legitimately takes a fresh look at FW and how it functions now would think banning it is a good idea for any reason other than "I hate FW!". Which while a reason, it not one that I think most people would consider terribly valid.

Vonjankmon
Death Korp of Krieg
Dark Angels 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




I always thought the "rules not available" argument was particularly bunk. Specifically because:

1. Very few people actually sat down and read all the GW codices ANYWAY even though they were supposedly more accessible.

2. You can just browse on over to something like 1d4chan's tacticas and get a decent idea of how any unit in any army plays regardless of whether it's GW or Forgeworld.

Forgeworld is normal now. Folks need to get over it I think.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Peregrine wrote:
 Polonius wrote:
Of course it's more difficult than buying Citadel models or rules. It's not a grueling task, but at the very least it's far more expensive. I can buy a GW codex online, at various stores, on ebay, shipped to my house, or with pick up at a GW shop. Unless I'm really dumb, I'll be getting free shipping and two day delivery. FW orders take a week or more, and you pay a lot for shipping.


"More expensive" and "more difficult" are not the same thing. FW is more expensive, but so are a lot of "main GW" products. Is it reasonable to ban any kit that costs more than $30, because it's more expensive to buy them?

There is no good reason GW couldn't stock the FW Indexes. That they choose not to continues to create the air that it's a separate product.


The reason is that it's a lower-volume product, and it doesn't make financial sense to print enough additional copies to give each store a sufficient inventory.

What makes you think that if they sold the FW index or imperial armor when it comes out in GW/FLGS stores that it wouldn't sell? Low volume is of their own doing. They'd probably sell a low volume of space marine tactical squads if they didn't stock them in their stores.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Auspicious Daemonic Herald





Audustum wrote:
I always thought the "rules not available" argument was particularly bunk. Specifically because:

1. Very few people actually sat down and read all the GW codices ANYWAY even though they were supposedly more accessible.

2. You can just browse on over to something like 1d4chan's tacticas and get a decent idea of how any unit in any army plays regardless of whether it's GW or Forgeworld.

Forgeworld is normal now. Folks need to get over it I think.

Also anyone using FW units should have the rules for them so you could just ask to see those rules
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 Xenomancers wrote:
What makes you think that if they sold the FW index or imperial armor when it comes out in GW/FLGS stores that it wouldn't sell? Low volume is of their own doing. They'd probably sell a low volume of space marine tactical squads if they didn't stock them in their stores.


It probably wouldn't sell because the models the rules are attached to are a low-volume product line. You don't need to buy a FW index if you aren't buying FW models. And you don't need to buy a FW index if you buy FW models online and decide to throw in the index while you're at it. And you probably don't need to buy a FW index if you're a new player buying your first starter set, which is the main reason codices are worth stocking instead of being a similar low-volume product that is online-only. They just wouldn't sell enough additional copies compared to the current online-only system to justify printing a much larger inventory volume to supply every store with copies.

And remember, GW tried this experiment. It isn't a theory, it's a statement about what has already happened. They stocked FW books for a while, and they mostly just sat on the shelf collecting dust until GW abandoned the experiment and brought all the excess inventory back to their central warehouse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/03 17:17:08


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 CrownAxe wrote:
Also anyone using FW units should have the rules for them so you could just ask to see those rules


That's always been the rule. No codex/index/supporting documentation? You can't use it.

It boils down to the following reasons:

1- The store can't sell it, and they want people advertising the toys they can sell.

2- The TO isn't familiar with it and is scared of it

3- People whine that FW units are 'overpowered' and 'unbalanced'

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Peregrine wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
What makes you think that if they sold the FW index or imperial armor when it comes out in GW/FLGS stores that it wouldn't sell? Low volume is of their own doing. They'd probably sell a low volume of space marine tactical squads if they didn't stock them in their stores.


It probably wouldn't sell because the models the rules are attached to are a low-volume product line. You don't need to buy a FW index if you aren't buying FW models. And you don't need to buy a FW index if you buy FW models online and decide to throw in the index while you're at it. And you probably don't need to buy a FW index if you're a new player buying your first starter set, which is the main reason codices are worth stocking instead of being a similar low-volume product that is online-only. They just wouldn't sell enough additional copies compared to the current online-only system to justify printing a much larger inventory volume to supply every store with copies.

And remember, GW tried this experiment. It isn't a theory, it's a statement about what has already happened. They stocked FW books for a while, and they mostly just sat on the shelf collecting dust until GW abandoned the experiment and brought all the excess inventory back to their central warehouse.

I don't know when they decided to do that experiment but is it safe to say the game is more popular now than it was then? Heck - they are even putting FW units in chapter approved now - times have changed.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
What makes you think that if they sold the FW index or imperial armor when it comes out in GW/FLGS stores that it wouldn't sell? Low volume is of their own doing. They'd probably sell a low volume of space marine tactical squads if they didn't stock them in their stores.


It probably wouldn't sell because the models the rules are attached to are a low-volume product line. You don't need to buy a FW index if you aren't buying FW models. And you don't need to buy a FW index if you buy FW models online and decide to throw in the index while you're at it. And you probably don't need to buy a FW index if you're a new player buying your first starter set, which is the main reason codices are worth stocking instead of being a similar low-volume product that is online-only. They just wouldn't sell enough additional copies compared to the current online-only system to justify printing a much larger inventory volume to supply every store with copies.

And remember, GW tried this experiment. It isn't a theory, it's a statement about what has already happened. They stocked FW books for a while, and they mostly just sat on the shelf collecting dust until GW abandoned the experiment and brought all the excess inventory back to their central warehouse.

I don't know when they decided to do that experiment but is it safe to say the game is more popular now than it was then? Heck - they are even putting FW units in chapter approved now - times have changed.


And with that change comes more change. Maybe we will see FW on the shelves in the future! And I am personally hoping for that. But GW's probably not interested in internal reorganization of its distribution just now. Or maybe they are and it will be announced tomorrow! I have no idea.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
And with that change comes more change. Maybe we will see FW on the shelves in the future! And I am personally hoping for that. But GW's probably not interested in internal reorganization of its distribution just now. Or maybe they are and it will be announced tomorrow! I have no idea.


As I understand, the reason they don't is because they don't sell nearly as much FW as they do regular GW products. I do at least wish they'd let the stores do orders.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

Yeah, I know the reason.

And trust me, I think FW is fine the way it is.

But seeing it in stores will shut all the people up who somehow can't figure out online ordering in 2018.

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




 CrownAxe wrote:
Audustum wrote:
I always thought the "rules not available" argument was particularly bunk. Specifically because:

1. Very few people actually sat down and read all the GW codices ANYWAY even though they were supposedly more accessible.

2. You can just browse on over to something like 1d4chan's tacticas and get a decent idea of how any unit in any army plays regardless of whether it's GW or Forgeworld.

Forgeworld is normal now. Folks need to get over it I think.

Also anyone using FW units should have the rules for them so you could just ask to see those rules


That too, though that one was covered so I guess I only reluctantly join in beating the dead horse.
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah, I know the reason.

And trust me, I think FW is fine the way it is.

But seeing it in stores will shut all the people up who somehow can't figure out online ordering in 2018.


Which in itself is a silly argument, considering the average FLGS doesn't even have a lot of items. About 1/3 of my stuff had to be ordered.

I mean, it's not my fault someone can't afford something.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Falls Church, VA

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah, I know the reason.

And trust me, I think FW is fine the way it is.

But seeing it in stores will shut all the people up who somehow can't figure out online ordering in 2018.


Which in itself is a silly argument, considering the average FLGS doesn't even have a lot of items. About 1/3 of my stuff had to be ordered.

I mean, it's not my fault someone can't afford something.


I mean depending on your interpretation of various religious writ or even your political alignment, it absolutely is your fault that someone can't afford something.

But I digress!

Some people say they know no fear. What they mean is that they have encountered and conquered it. I, on the other hand, truly know no fear. It is as alien to me as doubt, rage, or mercy.

2nd Concordian Independent Super Heavy Tank Armoured Regiment - 12,376 points
Order of the Luminous Beacon - 2087 points
Nevian Conclave of the Ordo Hereticus - 2002 points 
   
Made in us
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel





In previous editions the rules for units were harder to acquire and locate than they were for GW units. The 8th ed indices have largely solved this problem especially with them being available digitally.

As for difficulty to acquire FW models are more difficult to order than standard GW kits. Their search is terrible, they are only available on one site (maybe eBay as well, though less often then GW), and many kits sell weapons and bodies separately so a player needs to know what to look for.

None of this is a reason to ban it and CA goes a long way to help their inclusion. I'd prefer if the GW rules writers also did the FW rules, but as long as they control the points in the end I think it is ok.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Breng77 wrote:
their search is terrible


You know that FW uses the exact same store interface as "main GW", right?

and many kits sell weapons and bodies separately so a player needs to know what to look for


Kind of like how GW's plastic kits rarely come with all the parts you need, and you have to buy the weapons separately?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I mean depending on your interpretation of various religious writ or even your political alignment, it absolutely is your fault that someone can't afford something.

But I digress!


It sucks to suck, I guess. I'll wait for the day that the downtrodden masses that can't afford a Sicaran Punisher mob up to seize my means of reduction.
   
 
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