How are Tyranids currently doing so far in 8th edition?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Martel732**

Spoletta wrote:
Could post me one of those lists?

Next time I face one, I'll get a print out. I didn't realize how ignorant i was if Tyranid models because I'm used to spammed flyrants.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lance845 wrote:
Martel is just a big negative nancy. Everything always beats his Blood Angels and he's always sore about how everything is always op against BA.

Nids might have the best dex right now but it's not because of OP cheap units. It's because it has FANTASTIC internal balance. There are so few options that have no place. Just about anything will work in a list built to work with it.

As others have noted all these options means you need skill to make it work. Both in understanding how to build and refine your list and how to get it onto the table doing what it needs to do. It takes a lot of understanding to make it really shine on the table and you need to keep up to maximize it's effectiveness. If you slip up the enemy can kick your legs out from under you.

A bad player can have a GREAT nid list and completely fail all his matches.

A bad player can have a GREAT IG list and still be a real uphill battle for his opponents.

Nids have no fire and forget "dummy" tactics. Positioning, distractions, target priority, a real understanding of the pile in mechanics and how to maximize them... You need to really understand these to function.

IG and Nids does not equal EVERYTHING. Quit with the drama.

**Xenomancers**

mrhappyface wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
No, they do an average of 2 shots each (cannot equip double cannon), for a total of 12 damage.

So they gain two more Carnies and lose 16 shots. That's 20 base, 10 hit, 7 wound, 5 go through and 10dmg is done: only 1 small tank (unless it's one of the small tanks with 11/12 wounds).

Carnies are no where near OP.

They hit on 3's with a 10 point upgrade. Plus they have 6 str 7 ap-1 shots at 24. I run mine as Kronos so they are rerolling 1's to hit if they don't move. Not saying they are OP - they are one of the best units in a codex that is full of good units.

**Martel732**

Spoletta wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I have to try to get the heavy venom cannons off the board.

Can't melee them. Nids can somehow buy 9 carnifexes and still have plenty of screens. As I said, undercosted units everywhere.

Of course the carnies lack synapse which makes those screens next to useless.

Neurothropes kind of solve that problem. Anyone going heavy carnifex is going to have a Nuerothrope babysitting.

That works only if those fexes are blobbish, which makes using the deathspitters a bit hard and 9 HVC alone are not a good investement of 60% of your army. Sure, they easily take down one vehicle each turn at range 36", but that's hardly game breaking.

They're definitely traveling in these blobs of 3 carnifexes and other stuff. I assume the other stuff is synapse? I thought carnifexes were synapse? I mean, nothing ever rolled morale the whole game.

**Xenomancers**

Martel732 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I have to try to get the heavy venom cannons off the board.

Can't melee them. Nids can somehow buy 9 carnifexes and still have plenty of screens. As I said, undercosted units everywhere.

Of course the carnies lack synapse which makes those screens next to useless.

Neurothropes kind of solve that problem. Anyone going heavy carnifex is going to have a Nuerothrope babysitting.

That works only if those fexes are blobbish, which makes using the deathspitters a bit hard and 9 HVC alone are not a good investement of 60% of your army. Sure, they easily take down one vehicle each turn at range 36", but that's hardly game breaking.

They're definitely traveling in these blobs of 3 carnifexes and other stuff. I assume the other stuff is synapse? I thought carnifexes were synapse? I mean, nothing ever rolled morale the whole game.

Synapse is not an issue. Realistically every unit will have synapse the entire game unless the Nid player is trying to set up a flank move or making serious errors. The main drawback of synapse is it does not work across different hive fleets - so If you want to take multiple hive fleets you are hurting your overall synapse - it can be problematic. Synapse also does 2 things. #1 it makes you fearless - #2 it makes you ignore instictive behavior (which basically punishes you with -1's to hit if you don't shoot the closest target).

Realistically though 1 Neurothrope can cover your whole backfield and you can't target it with shooting (this allows carnifex to shoot at whatever target they want). Plus it smites at 24" rerolling 1's on psychic tests and it has another power too.

**mrhappyface**

Xenomancers wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
No, they do an average of 2 shots each (cannot equip double cannon), for a total of 12 damage.

So they gain two more Carnies and lose 16 shots. That's 20 base, 10 hit, 7 wound, 5 go through and 10dmg is done: only 1 small tank (unless it's one of the small tanks with 11/12 wounds).

Carnies are no where near OP.

They hit on 3's with a 10 point upgrade. Plus they have 6 str 7 ap-1 shots at 24. I run mine as Kronos so they are rerolling 1's to hit if they don't move. Not saying they are OP - they are one of the best units in a codex that is full of good units.

Right, that's what I'm trying to argue: the Nid codex should be the standard that all other codeces must compare against. Nids are good and have many options but aren't OP; this supposedly OP and spammable unit can only just take down a small tank with 10 of them all firing their anti-tank guns, even with the extra shots you just mentioned they only put an extra 7W on a tank. Again, trying to argue Nids are not OP.

**Martel732**

The other issue is the crazy mortal wounds they generate. I don't understand how any elite army has a chance against them.

**Xenomancers**

Galas wrote:
I dont know. I have no problems melting screens with an agressor+Azrael blob of death, or assault bolter inceptors, or a twin asscanon razorback loaded with company veterans with SB and Chainswords, and then chargin those carnifexs in meele with any pseudo usefull unit. Those dakkafex are horrible in mele, even a Squad of 5reivers with knives can do work against them. Or some bikers, or a single company champion.

A lot of times with the Dakka fex. It's going to have a strange build...like a hybrid build. Instead of taking the +1 to hit upgrade they can take this Acid Maw head instead. So it will have BS4+ and average 12 hits instead of 16 BUT it will now have 4 str 7 ap-5 d3 damage attacks. Plus if it is Kraken it can fall back and charge every turn.

Also how are you getting your aggressors in range with dark angels? Do they also get to infiltrate their units like Raven Gaurd?

**Martel732**

mrhappyface wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
No, they do an average of 2 shots each (cannot equip double cannon), for a total of 12 damage.

So they gain two more Carnies and lose 16 shots. That's 20 base, 10 hit, 7 wound, 5 go through and 10dmg is done: only 1 small tank (unless it's one of the small tanks with 11/12 wounds).

Carnies are no where near OP.

They hit on 3's with a 10 point upgrade. Plus they have 6 str 7 ap-1 shots at 24. I run mine as Kronos so they are rerolling 1's to hit if they don't move. Not saying they are OP - they are one of the best units in a codex that is full of good units.

Right, that's what I'm trying to argue: the Nid codex should be the standard that all other codeces must compare against. Nids are good and have many options but aren't OP; this supposedly OP and spammable unit can only just take down a small tank with 10 of them all firing their anti-tank guns, even with the extra shots you just mentioned they only put an extra 7W on a tank. Again, trying to argue Nids are not OP.

By this logic, there is one other good codex.

**Nurglitch**

They're not OP at all. You charge them and they're pillow-fisted with hitting on 4+ with four S6 AP0 attacks. If they fall back they can't shoot.

**Xenomancers**

Martel732 wrote:
The other issue is the crazy mortal wounds they generate. I don't understand how any elite army has a chance against them.

Carnifex has 2 sources of mortal wounds. They do a mortal on a 4+ anytime they charge and if they take a 5 point upgrade they do a mortal to each unit withing 1" on a 6 in the fight phase. Nids are pretty good vs all kinds of armies. Just aren't good against IG. IG can just load the table with infantry and my hive tyrants can't get to their tanks. IG are basically auto win.

**Martel732**

I meant the army as a whole. Smite spam, electro grubs, biovores, harpies, etc.

**mrhappyface**

Martel732 wrote:
By this logic, there is one other good codex.

And which Codex is that?

**Martel732**

That would be IG.

**mrhappyface**

Martel732 wrote:
That would be IG.

It's like people don't even bother to read anyone's posts anymore...

**Demerean**

Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
The other issue is the crazy mortal wounds they generate. I don't understand how any elite army has a chance against them.

Carnifex has 2 sources of mortal wounds. They do a mortal on a 4+ anytime they charge and if they take a 5 point upgrade they do a mortal to each unit withing 1" on a 6 in the fight phase. Nids are pretty good vs all kinds of armies. Just aren't good against IG. IG can just load the table with infantry and my hive tyrants can't get to their tanks. IG are basically auto win.

And if they take that upgrade, they cannot have the -1 to hit. So they never have that upgrade.

**Spoletta**

Never say never, i'm still dreaming of a day where shooting is no longer the golden standard but is only a 50% of the game, and i can finally take a lot of anti-melee specialists stuff.

Well at least the game is less shooting focused than the launch of 8th, so i guess that we are slowly getting there.

Also, I don't have the codex with me, but the Neuros don't get the 24" range smite, that's only for zoans.

**Demerean**

Spoletta wrote:
Never say never, i'm still dreaming of a day where shooting is no longer the golden standard but is only a 50% of the game, and i can finally take a lot of anti-melee specialists stuff.

Well at least the game is less shooting focused than the launch of 8th, so i guess that we are slowly getting there.

Also, I don't have the codex with me, but the Neuros don't get the 24" range smite, that's only for zoans.

Well I play against Tau, IG, Marines, Necrons and Eldar so it's a never for me. I am with you on the dream though.

**Spoletta**

Necrons are my biggest hope actually, that codex is potentially capable of wiping the meta state clean, they have so many hidden gems there if properly costed that the game pre and post necron could really be completely different. They are bad at long range shoot outs, but at the same time could be a big problem to fight at range.

Tau on the other hand are by biggest fear, i don't expect them getting a codex being a good thing for the game's health.

**Galas**

Xenomancers wrote:
Galas wrote:
I dont know. I have no problems melting screens with an agressor+Azrael blob of death, or assault bolter inceptors, or a twin asscanon razorback loaded with company veterans with SB and Chainswords, and then chargin those carnifexs in meele with any pseudo usefull unit. Those dakkafex are horrible in mele, even a Squad of 5reivers with knives can do work against them. Or some bikers, or a single company champion.

A lot of times with the Dakka fex. It's going to have a strange build...like a hybrid build. Instead of taking the +1 to hit upgrade they can take this Acid Maw head instead. So it will have BS4+ and average 12 hits instead of 16 BUT it will now have 4 str 7 ap-5 d3 damage attacks. Plus if it is Kraken it can fall back and charge every turn.

Also how are you getting your aggressors in range with dark angels? Do they also get to infiltrate their units like Raven Gaurd?

No, but they can advance and still shoot, so they are nearly always on range of the screen in turn 1 anyways. And with the 4++ invulnerable bubble they are quite durable, but add some Intercessors to the bubble so they are more sturdy. (With 2W and 3+/4++, intercessors are surprisingly point efficient in tanking everything. Agaisn't small arms fire, the 2W and 3+ does a very good job at soaking wounds. Agaisn't things like plasma or equivalents, that just destroy primaris, the 4++ is here to save the day)
For the Acid Maw upgrade, normally I don't see them use it in Dakkafexes. And even if they buy that instead, is a win. I'm the one charging them, so they only hits on 4+. Thats max 2 models death of a unit of scouts, or Reivers. It is worth it for shuting down 1 or 2 carnifexs (Because they normally are very close for the synapse bubbles)

And if the Tyranid player focus all of his fire to destroy the Azrael bubble... then that means he isn't shooting Sammael and the Ravenwing, or the Venerable Shooting Dreadnoughts in the back.

**Xenomancers**

Demerean wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
The other issue is the crazy mortal wounds they generate. I don't understand how any elite army has a chance against them.

Carnifex has 2 sources of mortal wounds. They do a mortal on a 4+ anytime they charge and if they take a 5 point upgrade they do a mortal to each unit withing 1" on a 6 in the fight phase. Nids are pretty good vs all kinds of armies. Just aren't good against IG. IG can just load the table with infantry and my hive tyrants can't get to their tanks. IG are basically auto win.

And if they take that upgrade, they cannot have the -1 to hit. So they never have that upgrade.

Nah the options for the carapace upgrade are only -
Spine banks - a pretty decent pistol weapon that has 4 str 5 shots for 2 points
or
Sporeocyst - -1 to hit from shooting attacks for 10 point

Chitnin thorns is 5 points and does those mortals on 6's in the fight phase. Usually it's not taken though because it kinda sucks.

**Imateria**

Martel732 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I have to try to get the heavy venom cannons off the board.

Can't melee them. Nids can somehow buy 9 carnifexes and still have plenty of screens. As I said, undercosted units everywhere.

Of course the carnies lack synapse which makes those screens next to useless.

Neurothropes kind of solve that problem. Anyone going heavy carnifex is going to have a Nuerothrope babysitting.

That works only if those fexes are blobbish, which makes using the deathspitters a bit hard and 9 HVC alone are not a good investement of 60% of your army. Sure, they easily take down one vehicle each turn at range 36", but that's hardly game breaking.

They're definitely traveling in these blobs of 3 carnifexes and other stuff. I assume the other stuff is synapse? I thought carnifexes were synapse? I mean, nothing ever rolled morale the whole game.

They wont, though they are taken in broods of up to 3 once they are on the table each Carnifex acts as an indipendant unit rather than a squad of 3. At that point the Synapse is about making sure you don't suffer -1 to hit when targeting an enemy unit that isn't the nearist.

**Marmatag**

I don't even understand how you're complaining about Carnifexes, especially with HVC. It's like complaining about lascannon razorback spam, without access to rerolls, or a weapon as good as the lascannon.

Woe be upon you when your local group discovers hive guard, and Kronos.

**Martel732**

I find the HVC much more effective than a lascannon in practice.

**mrhappyface**

Martel732 wrote:
I find the HVC much more effective than a lascannon in practice.

On average the HVC is better than the Lascannon for the same points... in a vacuum. Lascannons are easier to put on more resilient mounts and have greater access to re-roll auras, lascannons also have a wider range of damage meaning that some days you'll run out of luck and do 1dmg with your lascannons but other days you'll have the perfect roll of all 6s after your entire devastator team hit.

**Demerean**

Xenomancers wrote:
Demerean wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
The other issue is the crazy mortal wounds they generate. I don't understand how any elite army has a chance against them.

Carnifex has 2 sources of mortal wounds. They do a mortal on a 4+ anytime they charge and if they take a 5 point upgrade they do a mortal to each unit withing 1" on a 6 in the fight phase. Nids are pretty good vs all kinds of armies. Just aren't good against IG. IG can just load the table with infantry and my hive tyrants can't get to their tanks. IG are basically auto win.

And if they take that upgrade, they cannot have the -1 to hit. So they never have that upgrade.

Nah the options for the carapace upgrade are only -
Spine banks - a pretty decent pistol weapon that has 4 str 5 shots for 2 points
or
Sporeocyst - -1 to hit from shooting attacks for 10 point

Chitnin thorns is 5 points and does those mortals on 6's in the fight phase. Usually it's not taken though because it kinda sucks.

Oh right my bad. For some reason I was thinking the carapace upgrades included Thorns. That's what I get for not having my codex with me at work.

**Xenomancers**

Martel732 wrote:
I find the HVC much more effective than a lascannon in practice.

It's way better than a las cannon. 9 potential damage to 6. Same str only 1 less AP (which often doesn't matter because you are just cutting them to an invo save with ap-2 anyways) Vs some things it matters but the flat damage makes up for that alone - it's twice as effective against heavy infantry. Plus it's assault so can move and shoot no problem...even advance if you must and still shoot. Putting it on a -1 to hit platform that hits on 3's rerolling 1's...It's a real nice weapon.

The part I like most about them is Nid's weakness used to be long range anti tank. Now they have a reliable long range damage dealer. No they don't shoot like a guilliman army but...they are also 10 times better than a Guilliman army for obvious reasons.

**Martel732**

Xenomancers wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
I find the HVC much more effective than a lascannon in practice.

It's way better than a las cannon. 9 potential damage to 6. Same str only 1 less AP (which often doesn't matter because you are just cutting them to an invo save with ap-2 anyways) Vs some things it matters but the flat damage makes up for that alone - it's twice as effective against heavy infantry. Plus it's assault so can move and shoot no problem...even advance if you must and still shoot. Putting it on a -1 to hit platform that hits on 3's rerolling 1's...It's a real nice weapon.

The part I like most about them is Nid's weakness used to be long range anti tank. Now they have a reliable long range damage dealer. No they don't shoot like a guilliman army but...they are also 10 times better than a Guilliman army for obvious reasons.

Too nice, in my opinion. Way too nice. We'll see if GW agrees.

**Marmatag**

I still don't see a problem. Devoting 1000 points to a small handful of HVCs is a recipe for disaster in 8th edition. You will lose the objective game every time, and get swamped np.

**Martel732**

Maybe i'm just wrong, but i can't envision a competitive game against nids with my ba. I'm outclassed in every phase of the game.

**Marmatag**

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe i'm just wrong, but i can't envision a competitive game against nids with my ba. I'm outclassed in every phase of the game.

You are not outclassed in shooting. And if they're running 9 Carnifex you're not outclassed in assault either.

You play an elite list. Elite lists simply don't fare well in 8th edition for the obvious reasons.