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Hello and good morning all.

Just wanted to ask what is the current state of Tyranids so far, I recently picked up the new codex and some models to start building a collection together, so just wanted to see if from a competitive front, how they are doing?.

Cheers all

Pretty solid alround army from what I understand. This may diminish slightly with newer codex releases if power creep sets in but hopefully GW learnt their lesson from 6/7th ed.

Lots of options as always, they can be very competitive

Competitive but not a pick up and win army. They have all the tools to be a top table army (horde, speed, firepower, psychics) but are surprisingly a very finesse playstyle. In the hands if a skilled player though they are devastating.

I think they are a really good army that can be play multiple ways. We don't really know exactly how good they are yet. Having so many options it will take some time to really figure how strong they are. My guess is they are a top 5 codex by the time we get everyones dex. Right now they are top 3-4.

Post codex: Absolutely top tier...but not for free, you're still gonna have to earn your wins.

ERJAK wrote:
Post codex: Absolutely top tier...but not for free, you're still gonna have to earn your wins.

^This.

I've played against Tyranids this edition and those have been the most tactical, hard fought games I've ever played (I've lost against IG as well but those were not skilled victories on behalf of the Guard player, kind of like the token victories of Eldar in 7th), the only reason I won my most recent game against Nids was because my opponent made a game changing tactical error; but up until that point it was anyone's game.

From what I've experienced, Tyranids are THE best faction in 8th as far as rules go; they have potential to make tough lists but there are no go to lists; they have potential to stand up against any list but still require skill to pull a victory; and they offer so many different styles of play that can be mixed and matched and no gamestyle is better than the others.

They're really fun, really good, and have a ton of options. There seems to be a lot of viable ways to play them right now.

Heavy venom cannons on -1 to hit carnifexes with BS 3+ are pure cheese. They are gonna need a non-trivial points increase. Tyranids also have too many mortal wound sources that are too cheap currently. I guess the tournament scene will tell the tale.

Eh, maybe.
You can only put one HVC on a carnifex, so it's just D3 shots. The gun is pretty nice (for the first time in... ever I think), but it's nowhere near as spammable as lascannons/missile launchers are to imperial armies.

Arson Fire wrote:
Eh, maybe.
You can only put one HVC on a carnifex, so it's just D3 shots. The gun is pretty nice (for the first time in... ever I think), but it's nowhere near as spammable as lascannons/missile launchers are to imperial armies.

I run 4 carni with HVC in my list - the flat 3 damage is incredible. Plus you still get 6 str 7 ap-1 shots if you are at 24 inches too.

Indeed. As I said, it's a nice gun.
I'm just disagreeing that it's 'pure cheese'.

Martel732 wrote:
Heavy venom cannons on -1 to hit carnifexes with BS 3+ are pure cheese. They are gonna need a non-trivial points increase. Tyranids also have too many mortal wound sources that are too cheap currently. I guess the tournament scene will tell the tale.

As opposed to a Twin-Lascannon, Missile Launcher BS 2+ Ven Dreadnought?

Arson Fire wrote:
Eh, maybe.
You can only put one HVC on a carnifex, so it's just D3 shots. The gun is pretty nice (for the first time in... ever I think), but it's nowhere near as spammable as lascannons/missile launchers are to imperial armies.

I guess the 9 carnifex lists are just my imagination, then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Heavy venom cannons on -1 to hit carnifexes with BS 3+ are pure cheese. They are gonna need a non-trivial points increase. Tyranids also have too many mortal wound sources that are too cheap currently. I guess the tournament scene will tell the tale.

As opposed to a Twin-Lascannon, Missile Launcher BS 2+ Ven Dreadnought?

Yeah, because the carnifex is much cheaper AND gets -1 to be hit. Oh, and free cover all the time with Kraken.

Martel732 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Eh, maybe.
You can only put one HVC on a carnifex, so it's just D3 shots. The gun is pretty nice (for the first time in... ever I think), but it's nowhere near as spammable as lascannons/missile launchers are to imperial armies.

I guess the 9 carnifex lists are just my imagination, then.

I guess so.

People are playing lare amounts of Fex's lists, just b.c its not a tournament list doesnt mean players are not playing it.

Tournament lists =/= common players.

I don't mind the carnifex being very strong, it just needs to pay for its capabilities.

Martel732 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Eh, maybe.
You can only put one HVC on a carnifex, so it's just D3 shots. The gun is pretty nice (for the first time in... ever I think), but it's nowhere near as spammable as lascannons/missile launchers are to imperial armies.

I guess the 9 carnifex lists are just my imagination, then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Heavy venom cannons on -1 to hit carnifexes with BS 3+ are pure cheese. They are gonna need a non-trivial points increase. Tyranids also have too many mortal wound sources that are too cheap currently. I guess the tournament scene will tell the tale.

As opposed to a Twin-Lascannon, Missile Launcher BS 2+ Ven Dreadnought?

Yeah, because the carnifex is much cheaper AND gets -1 to be hit. Oh, and free cover all the time with Kraken.

You know? People would take you more seriously if what you said even made sense.

You say that you play a list with 4 fexes, and yet you don't even know which fleet gives them cover.

Sorry, meant Jormungandr. I keep getting that one confused with kraken for some reason. I play against 9 I said. It's hard to keep track of all the OP things the Nids are throwing at me when I play against them.

Tyranids are extremely good. Swarms in 40k are currently very, very strong, and Nids get access to swarms that don't care about Morale. This is one of the biggest failings of this edition so far, IMO. Far more things (quite possibly everything) should be vulnerable to Morale in some fashion because 8th removed pretty much anything that was good at killing huge units of troops. Yes, I'm aware you can kill the synapse but that's easier said than done.

It's good to see Nids up there towards the top of the tree for once though. It's been a long time since they were even half-decent. It's also worth bearing in mind they haven't had any balance changes yet due to the timing of their Codex versus CA so there's still time to adjust the outliers.

Cheers all for the comments and information.

Glad to hear Tyranids are doing well currently , with lots of varied options for units and lists.

Slipspace wrote:
Tyranids are extremely good. Swarms in 40k are currently very, very strong, and Nids get access to swarms that don't care about Morale. This is one of the biggest failings of this edition so far, IMO. Far more things (quite possibly everything) should be vulnerable to Morale in some fashion because 8th removed pretty much anything that was good at killing huge units of troops. Yes, I'm aware you can kill the synapse but that's easier said than done.

It's good to see Nids up there towards the top of the tree for once though. It's been a long time since they were even half-decent. It's also worth bearing in mind they haven't had any balance changes yet due to the timing of their Codex versus CA so there's still time to adjust the outliers.

Killing synapse is difficult sometimes but once the synapse is gone their low leadership makes nid swarms drop like flies. The synapse system does punish shooting armies that can't shoot synapse creatures with wounds lower than 10, but I'm completely OK with that for some reason.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Tyranids are extremely good. Swarms in 40k are currently very, very strong, and Nids get access to swarms that don't care about Morale. This is one of the biggest failings of this edition so far, IMO. Far more things (quite possibly everything) should be vulnerable to Morale in some fashion because 8th removed pretty much anything that was good at killing huge units of troops. Yes, I'm aware you can kill the synapse but that's easier said than done.

It's good to see Nids up there towards the top of the tree for once though. It's been a long time since they were even half-decent. It's also worth bearing in mind they haven't had any balance changes yet due to the timing of their Codex versus CA so there's still time to adjust the outliers.

Killing synapse is difficult sometimes but once the synapse is gone their low leadership makes nid swarms drop like flies. The synapse system does punish shooting armies that can't shoot synapse creatures with wounds lower than 10, but I'm completely OK with that for some reason.

There are honestly precious few synapse options that are characters with less than 10 wounds. 1) the prime, only really good in warrior heavy lists (which are good but rare) and 2) Neurothropes, amazing HQ option, I would be surprised if you didn't see at least 1 or 2 of these in each list (but rarely more) 3) malanthropes, forgeworld... got a lot more expensive in CA. Still good, but going to be much rarer because of the (slightly too much) increased cost.

So really it's 1 or 2 neurothropes your worried about.

 Lance845 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Tyranids are extremely good. Swarms in 40k are currently very, very strong, and Nids get access to swarms that don't care about Morale. This is one of the biggest failings of this edition so far, IMO. Far more things (quite possibly everything) should be vulnerable to Morale in some fashion because 8th removed pretty much anything that was good at killing huge units of troops. Yes, I'm aware you can kill the synapse but that's easier said than done.

It's good to see Nids up there towards the top of the tree for once though. It's been a long time since they were even half-decent. It's also worth bearing in mind they haven't had any balance changes yet due to the timing of their Codex versus CA so there's still time to adjust the outliers.

Killing synapse is difficult sometimes but once the synapse is gone their low leadership makes nid swarms drop like flies. The synapse system does punish shooting armies that can't shoot synapse creatures with wounds lower than 10, but I'm completely OK with that for some reason.

There are honestly precious few synapse options that are characters with less than 10 wounds. 1) the prime, only really good in warrior heavy lists (which are good but rare) and 2) Neurothropes, amazing HQ option, I would be surprised if you didn't see at least 1 or 2 of these in each list (but rarely more) 3) malanthropes, forgeworld... got a lot more expensive in CA. Still good, but going to be much rarer because of the (slightly too much) increased cost.

So really it's 1 or 2 neurothropes your worried about.

Broodlords also have synapse.

Synapse will be harder to remove than you think, a couple Neurothropes in side gants with 50+ genestealers coming to get you and other units like Hive Guard, Trygons etc.. that dont care about Synapse. Your not to worried about eating threw the trash to kill synapse. Your more focus on killing what will hurt you now. Nids are very good at giving you a huge threat to deal with.

How on earth are you complaining about 9 heavy venom cannon Carnifex?

For the same points in Eldar you could put down 30 dark reapers, 6 tempest launchers.

9d3 dice ~ 18 shots at 36".
versus
30 shots at 48", with the additional 12d6 shots not requiring LOS. Or maybe just 60 strength 5, -2, 2 damage shots?

I mean honestly man. 9 Carnifexes is not a good army, especially if you put freaking HVC on them. lol. That sounds like something tailored to fight marines, and would get riggidy wrecked in this meta.

Pretty good, flyrants got even better this edition so.

 Marmatag wrote:
How on earth are you complaining about 9 heavy venom cannon Carnifex?

For the same points in Eldar you could put down 30 dark reapers, 6 tempest launchers.

9d3 dice ~ 18 shots at 36".
versus
30 shots at 48", with the additional 12d6 shots not requiring LOS. Or maybe just 60 strength 5, -2, 2 damage shots?

I mean honestly man. 9 Carnifexes is not a good army, especially if you put freaking HVC on them. lol. That sounds like something tailored to fight marines, and would get riggidy wrecked in this meta.

Those Eldar don't take the return fire nearly as well. I'm complaining b/c those things don't die and are far too cheap for their capabilities.

Martel732 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
How on earth are you complaining about 9 heavy venom cannon Carnifex?

For the same points in Eldar you could put down 30 dark reapers, 6 tempest launchers.

9d3 dice ~ 18 shots at 36".
versus
30 shots at 48", with the additional 12d6 shots not requiring LOS. Or maybe just 60 strength 5, -2, 2 damage shots?

I mean honestly man. 9 Carnifexes is not a good army, especially if you put freaking HVC on them. lol. That sounds like something tailored to fight marines, and would get riggidy wrecked in this meta.

Those Eldar don't take the return fire nearly as well. I'm complaining b/c those things don't die and are far too cheap for their capabilities.

Carnifex with Spore Cysts, Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons and Enhanced Senses comes to 126

Dreadnought with Twin Lascannons and Missile Launcher comes to 145

Totally comparable units, point for point. Or maybe Dreadnoughts are OP cheese.

If you think that carnifex is fair at 126, I don't know what to tell you. It gets raven guard chapter tactics AND a hive fleet adaptation. Heavy venom cannon gets no penalty for moving, unlike the dreadnought as well.

Also, the dakkafex is rocking the twin devourer, not the talons. I don't know what that does to its cost. Probably way too cheap, still.