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Subject: Re:CaptainWaffle's Shipyard - WIP White Lion Chariots
More progress. Completed the White Lion chariot pullers and the charioteers' pelt cloaks. Mounted the lions and chariot car on the base:
Slow progress is still progress. I was busy past week helping relatives clear their property of storm damage and whatnot. All that's left are the two charioteers and the driver's axe sheathe that sits behind him. I'm liking how this is turning out, although I think the shading is a little harsh on the lions. Parts of the shading also didn't turn out how I expected it would. Learn for the next one. I'll get the lion's eyes painted in when I do the charioteers' eyes.
I have many ideas to make the next two chariots unique and more efficient to paint. First, need to finish this one. C&C always welcome. Enjoy the hobby.
Lovely progress in the lions so far, their shading looks just right to me. Must’ve been a brave elf that braided their manes under their chins! They were a bit keen as they look like trip hazards with their length! What’s your plan to distinguish between the chariots? Changing the blue for green/yellow/red?
A massive elfish sedative. I don't know if lore-wise the lions are trained or just have their ferocity directed. They must be trained to sit still, though, right?
The second cariot will have more white-white lions with more silver and less gold details. The third will be somewhat a mix, maybe with more red detais. When they are all done I'll pick the one I like the most and prepare a banner for it so it can lead charges. I figure each chariot team needs a unique bond between them and their lions, so their details would be unique. Also, white lions have some interesting color variations, which I want to try my hand at.
Nearly there with this first one. I hope to have it done before the weekend. We'll see.
That would be one strong sedative, or Elven Mead! I guess some training would be necessary, or perhaps they’re addicted to the Mead, so the Elves can do what they like whilst tempting then with a vial of mead!?!? Cool sounding plans for the rest of the group, can’t wait to see them
Finished the White Lion Chariot and had an eventful weekend at a local store’s Age of Sigmar tournament. First, comments on the recent removal of nearly the entire elf line in the spoiler below. It is lengthy, so ignore it if not interested.
GW is a company, and companies need to make a profit to survive. They don’t need to seek constant massive growth, and GW doesn’t seem to seek this, but they do need overall goals that allow the company to continue to relevantly provide something that consumers desire/need. However, the recent removal of most of the remaining “Old World” warscrolls and kits is not about maintaining relevancy or a new look for Warhammer. It is entirely about profit, and it was deceitful.
In the announcement for the new Cities of Sigmar battletome it was advertised that the common people of the realms - the humans, dwarves, and elves - will finally have a coherent set of rules and deeper lore. Many were excited that after years of being part of the backbone of the lore and for the love of the miniatures. We would finally be able to have meaningful rules, and perhaps more reason to expand with purchases. We would have the down-to-earth, everyday man of the Age of Sigmar setting that makes society run. The Imperial Guard of Age of Sigmar, if you will.
Finally, all those miniature options, some that we have wanted for a long time but had no reason to get (I wanted some for nearly 20 years in cases, but never could get until now for a variety of reasons), would have decent rules that would warrant a kit purchase. The backbone lore would be developed more for all those kits. We would be satisfied, and if future offers based on their merits came along (such as the “light elves”) we could add them to it.
We were deceived.
“Deceived” is used purposefully. The announcement for Cities of Sigmar stated specifically that “a handful” of the line would go away. Forty-plus options is far more than a handful. It’s multiple entire armies of offerings worth. The announcement stated that we could make the cities represented in official lore and artwork that we wanted to. But most of those options have now been removed. It was expected that warscrolls related to kits that have long been unavailable to purchase, such as Spire of Dawn options, would be removed, and old kits that perhaps could use an update would be updated. A great deal more was cut.
Spire of Dawn was advertised not even two years ago as a way to get into Age of Sigmar. Skycutters were baked into the Malign Sorcery lore. The Age of Sigmar 2.0 Core Rulebook, the bedrock of the lore setting and launching point for getting into the mortal realms, has every elf model that was recently removed literally called out by name as important components of society and story. Artwork, including staged photos with now-axed miniatures, such as the entire High Elf Order Draconis line, were used for advertisements and Warhammer Community posts just recently. The General’s Handbook 2019, which only recently came out, has rules specifically for Glade Guard, and mercenary companies requiring the dwarven cannons that were cut. People purchased these items for these purposes. There are many more examples that have been noted on Dakka, Grand Alliance, and elsewhere. All of these important-to-Age of Sigmar examples are now, at the least, rendered inaccurate. This is deceitful.
Why would GW do this? Some attempts at game-rules reasons have been posited. Each of these is handled in turn here.
“The High Elf line and parts of human and dwarves were redundant. There is no need for multiple ranged dwarf options, and nearly every high elf has a dark elf counterpart.”
This reason falls flat immediately. GW has shown no interest in making rules based on what is and is not already represented in an army. See “Stormcast Eternals”, which has tons of redundancy in different flavors. Other armies have similar items. A model option appears to be more about flavor and sales than rules.
“The kits never sold well.”
This is perhaps true. But it’s also because GW never bothered to give decent, even competitive, rules for them.
“They don’t fit GW’s new aesthetic.”
And Skaven do? They just had old kits returned to the line. The “aesthetic” has been thoroughly described in the lore, and the humans, dwarves, and elves as average denizens fit completely. If anything, I’ve read reports from many, many people that new items, such as the Idoneth, don’t fit. They are too outlandish. I tend to agree.
“The models were old and needed to be retired.”
Perhaps the “Karl Franz” loaded Freeguild (old Empire) needed some revision. However, many mainstream and advertised armies still today have old models GW still makes. In some cases, extremely old. Additionally, many of the High Elf line were very recently updated or even created (Skycutters). There is no argument for retiring kits because they are old, and plenty of the kits are very new, newer than those from other, supported armies.
“Generic fantasy shouldn’t exist in AoS.”
It does exist already. It’s baked into the lore. There also must be everyday people to make societies run (e.g., “Cities of Sigmar”). These everyday people in a torn existence will need to take up arms. There’s a massive market for selling down-to-earth, “generic fantasy” kits, and very few companies make them, at least few quality kits. GW’s have been a great standard for quite some time.
There are likely other posited reasons that do not hold up, and I do not recall them at the moment. If these reasons do not hold, then why would GW, a business, to the ire of many, end a massive portion of the line, cut out huge backbones of the lore, and remove the potential for more sales of these items if only we were provided decent rules? The following are the only reasons I can see that hold.
I can argue against this lunacy all I want, but this is ultimately a choice by GW C-suite and legal. I do think this argument is completely ridiculous, as nothing GW does will prevent other companies from making “not-Stormcast/Space Marines”. It is also a decision completely beyond the main focus of the product offered. It has nothing to do with lore, relevant rules, or aesthetics. GW’s apparent IP concerns are not about actual need to defend themselves legally (as there isn’t a need), it’s about them wanting to be the only game in town with an iron fist. It is what it is.
Ah, the heart of the matter. Many kits that were removed have been in the market for some time. Third-party sellers cycle used stock. Sales are not necessarily going to the stores, and to GW for these kits. It’s too difficult for GW to control these older items’ sales. Molds might be breaking and it is relatively costly (nowhere near as costly as it used to be, though) to make new ones. This is somewhat a junk argument as tons of new kits and armies are also reselling. More importantly though, there are plenty of people that have had old armies from these kits put together for some time. Perhaps they would purchase more if they were encouraged, or forced…
This is where the final point of deception comes in. The removed miniatures were baked into the lore, specifically named in the Core Rulebook and elsewhere, part of major plot developments, advertised with official art and miniatures staging, and assumed to be part of the Cities of Sigmar as “a handful” means nowhere near 40+. Then, they were all dropped. GW has plans on the horizon, and they need the old elf, and possibly dwarf and human players to buy new stuff. If they can proxy things they won’t make purchases. If their miniatures are still relevant, and able to find games at the local store they won’t buy new things either. They must be brought in line. Remove their relevancy. Deceive them, even if unintentional, with the aforementioned lore and advertising. Force them to choose between narrowing their gaming options and relevancy or purchasing what is to come.
It has been brought up by others that there is one important thing that this action confirmed about GW. In the name of profit, prepare to have any warscroll, any miniature, axed at any time. Nothing is technically safe.
I already don’t trust most businesses. It’s a good stance to have as one uses their offerings. I have lost nearly all trust in GW. “New” GW is only new in appearance. I am disheartened at these recent events. Many of my future plans were dashed. Years of work rendered irrelevant. It was already difficult for me to find those to game with, and now in the name of relevancy it will be much more difficult. I don’t know if something I like from GW that is even more recent will be put on the chopping block within five years, so I am wary of purchases. I can’t reasonably use the recent purchases I made. There are many others in a similar situation as I am. I am lucky that I was wary when Cities of Sigmar was announced and managed to purchase all the kits I wanted but had not been able to for years before they were dropped. Many others are not so lucky.
I am aware I can always use the models I have to play with old or legacy warscrolls, or even other games. I like that. However, relevancy is key as well. My primary, in fact, my only ability to wargame so far is at a local store. If I don’t have a currently supported Warhammer army it will be extremely difficult, more likely impossible, to find someone to game with. No one plays anything else in this area. I’d love to find or start a historical, old Warhammer/AoS, or other game group, a “wargaming club” that isn’t restricted to GW, but so far there is no reception here. I, and many others are at the mercy of GW to find players to wargame with. I think GW knows of this effective power.
On to hobby-cheerful things. The White Lion Chariot is finished. The chariot crew are apparently modeled squinting against the wind, or something. There’s no way to properly paint the eyes. I think it turned out very well anyway! What do you think?
Due to the recent dropping of nearly all elves, I am unsure where to put my hobby focus and I am disheartened. My intention was to develop a group of lion chariots and rangers, and then move on to Order Draconis items that I recently purchased from GW. I usually build and paint both out of interest and out of discipline. It relaxes me as I am poor at relaxing from work, and it makes things I can game with. Now, I can’t really game with anything else I have because no one in my area would play against the non-supported stuff. I do not know what is next on the table. I might become a random miniature painter for a time. I’ll have to look through my storage bins for something that interests me. Someday I will go back to the lions.
Yesterday, I participated in a local store’s Age of Sigmar tournament. It was a 1,000 point meeting engagement format with three rounds. There was also a related painting competition. I fielded the following army.
That’s A Flamspyre Phoenix with Anointed, two Anointed on foot, two units of Phoenix Guard, and one allied Treelord. Comes out to 1,000 points exactly. General was the Anointed on Phoenix, took the Obstinate Blade artifact and the extra command point general trait.
Points were earned for games (played a game, tied, or won), painting quality, and painted army. Milestones, such as winning best painted or winning a game, earned tickets, just joining earned a ticket, and tickets could be placed into bins for the chance to win prizes at the end.
I lost my first game against a good opponent playing mounted Stormcast, but it was a very close game. I won the other two, one against Khorne and the other against Sylvaneth. Also won best painted. Overall, I took second place for the event. I’ve never been to a tournament of any size, and I have not played many AoS games at all. It was quite surprising. To top it all, my name was pulled for one of the prizes and I went home with a new box of the Forbidden Power AoS expansion. Perhaps I’ll paint some of that next. We’ll see. It was a very enjoyable experience.
Thanks for reading. C&C on anything always welcome. Enjoy the hobby, and I look forward to seeing what everyone else is up to.
Well Captain. Firstly, Stirling work on that chariot, on all your pointy-heads in fact. My goblins would gak a load of fungus spores and run if faced with that force. Not to mention my own shame-faced embarrassment at having my shabby rabble on the same table.
This message was brought to you by the following spoilered rant.
Your investment of time, effort, skill and money in putting that force together has obviously been a big one and it really shows and anyone who loves the game and the hobby (as many here on Dakka obviously do) will agree it's a great achievement and should be celebrated and encouraged and supported.
Maybe this is why the decisions of the big GW feel like such a betrayal. They're not based on the same love of the setting and the game and the hobby but on sales targets and Business development plans and it feels heartless and cynical and greedy. Not to mention how manipulative you feel they've been about it. While I've never been a tournament player or attached to any particularly in-the-pocket GW gaming community i can sympathise. You've made something really beautiful with what they've given you and now they're taking the elves off the table and denying you (and hundreds of others in your position) the opportunity to enjoy it in the way they promised. I'd liken it to a sports promoter selling tickets and programmes and merchandise for an event that got cancelled. And you're left holding those things you bought and cherished but in the end couldn't really use. And I don't have any answers for you, there's nothing you can do about GW doing what they've been doing for years.
All you can do I suppose is enjoy it where you can. Finding someone else to game with would be ideal. Keep the rules your using and let GW take it where they will without you. I had that luxury long ago and now just enjoy the games I know in my own way. Write my own stories in the worlds GW created and just appreciate the things about it I love without being subject to the changes and updates imposed by the business.
Maybe it's an opportunity to branch out and try something new. Investigate a different kind of game. Look into age of sail naval battles or 15mm historical skirmish games. Card games or X-wing or Zombicide or D&D. There's sooooo much more out there than GW and maybe all you need is someone to play with.
You are very right, theCrow. It is best not to attach one's hobby to particular businesses. I recently spoke to a family member that very casually wargames, and was encouraged to remind myself of why I partake in the hobby. I certainly don't do it for GW's sake. I'll keep working on my collection. I acquired the kits and models because I enjoy them for many reasons and find them relaxing to work with., That's the point.
Doesn't take away the sting. Things heal with time, especially what is ultimately a minor thing in life, such as the recent GW actions. If GW were to offer a product I enjoy I might purchase it in the future. Not for their or their game's sake, but for mine.
I was not devestated in any way by the events, as some others were. It certainly is an opportunity to remind oneself of what's actually important. Besides, my Phoenix Temple, Sylvaneth, and most of my Wood Elves (not yet painted) are still supported and part of the upcoming battletome. I also have all the old and current warscrolls/rules saved for my use, before GW modifies them to remove their important keywords.
I built the Forbidden Power set that I won at the local tournament, but have not primed it due to weather. The weather is slowly becoming stormy, and with that autumn is coming fast where I live this far north. My ability to spray prime is quickly diminishing. I'm somewhat focused on building things to prime soon so I can paint over the long winter. Next up is a Dragon Noble on foot that I'm equipping to more match the White Lions.
Haven't felt a 40k drive in a while. I've missed medieval fantasy for a long time, so I'll stick with that. Besides, my firstborn will be here soon, and I'll be reading to him important tales with great morals, historical and fiction. Tolkien falls into that. I might be stuck in medieval fantasy for some time!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/06 17:32:27
Lots to look forward to as a gaming dad.
My oldest is 8 and loves playing my "daddy games." I just make up some dice rolls on the spot that make sense and he goes with it. Soon I'm sure he'll want to look at the rule books a bit more. I'm hoping to get him into the LOtR strategy battle game collecting his own force. He liked the look of the Gondor minis. He's a big LOtR fan. Been reading the books at bedtime and we're nearly done Two Towers.
On the theme of other Important tales with great morals "The Wind in the Willows" comes highly recommended. Both my boys loved it and it's a delight to read aloud.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/06 21:41:59
Thanks for the good words again, theCrowe. I recall reading Wind in the Willows when I was young. It's been a while.
I've been working on getting Wood Elves painted up for the Cities of Sigmar battletome. I have 800 points of High Elf Phoenix Temple done, and about 750 points of Sylvaneth done (both in my gallery). Getting these Wood Elves together will give me a sound 2000-ish point force. I have 10 Wildwood Rangers, 5 Sisters of the Thorn, a Nomad Prince, and I intend to get a box of Eternal Guard. Just need to get them all painted. First up, a Wildwood Ranger Warden (unit leader). The rest will be painted up similarly, but not to this high standard otherwise I'd never finish them.
More images in my gallery under Wood Elves (see signature). For my record, and in case anyone else is interested, here's the paint process. All paints are GW unless otherwise stated (also used Reaper and Vallejo, glazes and varnishes are Liquitex). Steps are base, shade, mid highlight, highlight.
Skin: Reaper Fair Shadow, Reikland Fleshshade, Reaper Fair Skin, Reaper Fair Highlight
Hair: Zandri Dust, Seraphim Sepia, Ushabti Bone, Screaming Skull
Eyes: Corax White, Skarsnik Green
Cloak: Doombull Brown, Nuln Oil equal mix glaze medium recess shade, Skrag Brown (did not highlight further)
Leather: Rhinox Hide, Agrath Earthshade, Gorthor Brown, Baneblade Brown
Cloth: Jokaero Orange, Reikland Fleshade in recesses, Jokaero Orange mixed with Reaper Fair Highlight (did not highlight further)
Blades: Leadbelcher, Drakenhof Nightshade equal mix glaze medium all over, Stormhost Silver
Hafts: Zandri Dust, Reikland Fleshshade all over, Ushabti Bone, Screaming Skull
Armor: Vallejo Bronze, Athonian Camoshade in recesses, Vallejo Bronze equal mix Stormhost Silver, Stormhost Silver
Gems: Caliban Green, Kabalite Green, Warpstone Glow, Sybarite Green, Corax White
Now to work on the next nine. C&C always welcome, enjoy the hobby.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/12 00:15:02
Completed Wildwood Rangers unit. Took about 15 hours spread over the previous two weeks to complete the other nine members. Roughly tabletop+ quality. I left the banner blank because I don't know what to do with it. I'm thinking of painting the Wood Elf stag on it, but I'll wait to see what the Cities of Sigmar book has to offer.
I'm not entirely sold on the colors used, but that's what they are. Next on the paint table are some fuzzy creatures. Mouslings from Reaper and various creatures from the likes of Dark Sword Miniatures and Oathsworn Miniatures. Getting some options ready for Burrows & Badgers, which I recently purchased a copy of. What a great book! Painting progress to come on those soon.
Comments and criticism always welcome. Enjoy the hobby.
Made significant progress on Burrows & Badgers related projects over the previous two weeks. My first task was to fix up a bunch of critters I, family, and friends had painted well over eight years ago. Old paint jobs are always a fun thing to look at.
The Mouslings are from Reaper Miniatures. I have way too many of these little things gathered over the years. The frog creatures are also from Reaper, being their line of Frogmen, or squogs, or whatever they call them. The metal bits are works in progress from Dark Sword Miniatures, and more will come about them. The platypus is the old Platypod (I think that's the name), one of a very brief run of anthropomorpic miniatures Reaper did many years ago. Looking back, I wish I was able to get more of them. I don't think there's any way of getting those miniatures anymore. All of these Reaper critters are much more fantasy/comical than those from other companies, but that doesn't matter. They're animals in medieval fantasy - it works.
The Burrows & Badgers rulebook states that small and medium-sized creatures should be on roughly 30mm bases. I think that's too large for Reaper mouslings, so I mounted them on 25mm bases then mounted those on 32mm bases that were painted black. Oathsworn Miniatures, Dark Sword Miniatures, and other companies' mice appear to be a little larger than Reaper's mouslings. I suspect the non-Reaper offerings would fit a 30mm base just fine. The platypus technically is a medium-sized critter, so should be on a 30mm base. I put him on a 40mm because he's a big guy, all metal, and I put him on that larger base many years ago. He wasn't coming off. It works out just fine.
After a paint touch up, varnish, and re-base many of these critters are ready to go.
The mouse at the front left is "Martin the Warrior", and the rogue next to him is "Squeak Softly, and Carry a Sharp Stabber". Strangly, he's the only one with eyes large enough to get comical with.
I also painted four new-to-me mouslings and touched-up old Platypod.
At a local Michael's craft store, I found a few Halloween-themed owls meant for those seasonal miniature towns that some people like to make tables for. They are appropriately-sized to be small or medium owls/raptors for Burrows & Badgers, and were on sale for $4 for three. After some clipping and Milliput they are ready for paint. Always keep your eyes open when out and about! I coated them with white primer after I took this image.
I'm thinking something like an owl sneak, owl fighter (dracula-owl), and an owl mage for these three.
Finally, I painted up a Rabbit Warrior from Dark Sword Miniatures. He has an old grump sort of look to him. I painted his eyes looking down with indignation, I assume at a mousling, somewhat by accident. I think it works out, though.
More critters on the way. Thanks for reading, and dealing with the very-bright images (too late to re-take them). As always, comments and criticism welcome. Enjoy the hobby.
Those mousing are adorable. I could really see my youngest lad getting excited to play with those. They're much more in keeping with his cute and cuddly personality. If anyone does a collection of anthropomorphised penguin warriors he'd just loose his mind over them.
Great choices to paint given GWs recent behaviour p’ing you off. Really liking the platypus wizard, he’s very cute! The rabbit hero looks great too, though the paint on his sheath looks a bit thick, apologies if it’s a texture underneath though.
Thanks for the kind words, theCrowe and gobert. I'm sometimes mentally torn at the idea of the fuzzballs going into battle and dying. But, just like the ultimate morals and tales of Wind in the Willows and Redwall, there really is evil in the world and life is full of sacrifice. Sometimes they are big. There are no exceptions. Important lessons.
The black paint really isn't thick, gobert. I thin all my paints, no worries! It's the result of the metal cast underneath. I didn't notice the roughness until after it was all painted and varnished and in my lightbox for images. If I caught it sooner I would have filed it down. Oh well, it's all leather so perhaps it's aged. Ya, let's go with that. If I were to redo the rabbit (which I won't), I'd also paint the brown leathers in a warmer color. It turned out a bit dull for my tastes.
theCrowe, I have great news! Dark Sword Miniatures makes an anthropomorphic penguin thief. Looks a little goofy and isn't quite a warrior, but it's perhaps a start.