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pm713 wrote:

Stux wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Stux wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Stux wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Entire primaris line is redundant.

Not quite sure how...

Intercessors better than Tacticals. Aggressors see play. Hellblasters see play. Inceptors see play. Maybe not so much at top tables in tournaments, but that's a general Marines issue, not a Primaris specific issue. Within the vacuum of the Marine codex those units are all very solid.

But they're all redundant. Not one of them brings something new.

No, but they do certain roles better. They aren't redundant, they made other marine choices redundant.

Actually you know what, even that only applies to Intercessors and Arguably Hellblasters. Inceptors and Aggressors do things that can't be done by other marine units. Inceptors bring a high level of plasma fire dropped anywhere on the battlefield, and Aggressors brink amazing defence against assault hordes.

The only thing I see them doing better is provoking lawsuits from Blizzard.

Then you haven't given them a fair chance. An Inceptor squad on average deletes a Daemon Prince, which costs more points, in one round of shooting. They're an amazing unit.

But remain redundant. They're basically deploy from orbit and come out shooting squad. Which is literally what Tac Marines did. Their sole purpose is to sell more stuff and bloat Marine ranges more.

I'd argue that Tac Marines are redundant and have been for some time. That 'generic 24" Rapid 1 w/Heavy Weapon choice' crap has got to go. It's in almost every faction and does nothing but provide a bunch of faceless goons to throw about when you can't think of a meaningful tactical choice to add.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Stux wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Stux wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Stux wrote:

 skchsan wrote:
Entire primaris line is redundant.

Not quite sure how...

Intercessors better than Tacticals. Aggressors see play. Hellblasters see play. Inceptors see play. Maybe not so much at top tables in tournaments, but that's a general Marines issue, not a Primaris specific issue. Within the vacuum of the Marine codex those units are all very solid.

But they're all redundant. Not one of them brings something new.

No, but they do certain roles better. They aren't redundant, they made other marine choices redundant.

Actually you know what, even that only applies to Intercessors and Arguably Hellblasters. Inceptors and Aggressors do things that can't be done by other marine units. Inceptors bring a high level of plasma fire dropped anywhere on the battlefield, and Aggressors brink amazing defence against assault hordes.

The only thing I see them doing better is provoking lawsuits from Blizzard.

Then you haven't given them a fair chance. An Inceptor squad on average deletes a Daemon Prince, which costs more points, in one round of shooting. They're an amazing unit.

But remain redundant. They're basically deploy from orbit and come out shooting squad. Which is literally what Tac Marines did. Their sole purpose is to sell more stuff and bloat Marine ranges more.

I'd argue that Tac Marines are redundant and have been for some time. That 'generic 24" Rapid 1 w/Heavy Weapon choice' crap has got to go. It's in almost every faction and does nothing but provide a bunch of faceless goons to throw about when you can't think of a meaningful tactical choice to add.

So you are saying infantry with small arms are redundant in general for 40k? I think it should be an esssential part of the game. 40k without faceless goons would basicly be characters, monsters and tanks.

Gitdakka wrote:

So you are saying infantry with small arms are redundant in general for 40k? I think it should be an esssential part of the game. 40k without faceless goons would basicly be characters, monsters and tanks.

I agree. It's the equivalent of Dawn of War's shift from RTS to MOBA. Terrifying.

Gitdakka wrote:
...So you are saying infantry with small arms are redundant in general for 40k? I think it should be an esssential part of the game. 40k without faceless goons would basicly be characters, monsters and tanks.

Emphasis on "should be". GW's incessant push to make everything BIGGER is doing a good job of rendering small-arms infantry redundant; in random pick-up games where the detachment formats, vehicle squadrons, and things like the Knights book make a "thousand point army" equally likely to contain two Knights, or Magnus and a couple of daemon princes, or Guilliman leading a squadron of Dreadnaughts, as any kind of sensible small-scale force it's hard to argue there's a point to taking line foot except as a space-filling tool to make enemy deep strike/charges harder.

Infantry are dramatically more relevant if you've got a play environment where people don't go straight for the big models at the expense of everything else.

It seems a lot of people arnt understanding the difference between redundant and not used because this unit is bad

Redundant in what context though?
Flavour? Rules? Theme? Models?

Heck the entire Primaris range is utterly redundant and useless in the game for its rules.
But the models are nice. So it balances.

ValentineGames wrote:
Redundant in what context though?
Flavour? Rules? Theme? Models?

Heck the entire Primaris range is utterly redundant and useless in the game for its rules.
But the models are nice. So it balances.

Not sure about them being redundant in rules.
The stalker bolter Intercessors are a welcome addition, and having a heavy weapon squad super-optimised for their niche (Hellblasters) is nice. Reivers act as tougher scout/assault marine hybrids, with Inceptors filling in a role for durable precision shooting. Aggressors make for great anti-horde.

Plus, in general, Primaris boasting the extra Wound is quite a marked change from normal Marines. If anything, it Tactical Marines which are now invalid when they're only ever taken for their special weapons, which other squads can take.

ValentineGames wrote:
Redundant in what context though?
Flavour? Rules? Theme? Models?

Heck the entire Primaris range is utterly redundant and useless in the game for its rules.
But the models are nice. So it balances.

Please, read the previous pages. Primaris are not redundant for rules. Intercessors possibly, though I think they outclass Tacticals, just.

Hellblasters, Aggressors, and Inceptors all have a niche they excel in though, especially for certain chapters.

bibotot wrote:
- Grey Knights Rhino. Basically the Space Marine Rhino. Completely redundant because most Grey Knights will be Deepstriking. The Rhinos were meant for the Inquisitorial Henchmen back in 5th edition, but the Inquisition has been removed and shared transport is no longer a thing.

Wrong. Not only it had a GK driver and psyker powers, it had various useful upgrades, like using psychic powers to speed up or even teleport around the battlefield.

Blame whatever incompetent writer got the army after Ward, in 5th edition GK were diverse, balanced army with lots of synergies, not that bland mangled junk they are today...

- Blood Angel Vanguard Veterans. Why these and Sanguinary Guards at the same time?

You really don't see difference between anti-elite unit with 2+ save and customizable assault squad with 3+? Seriously?

Death Company is the unit that makes Vanguard Veterans useless for Blood Angels. Sanguinary Guards make Assault Terminators redundant.

 Galas wrote:
Death Company is the unit that makes Vanguard Veterans useless for Blood Angels. Sanguinary Guards make Assault Terminators redundant.

Sanguinary guard doesn't have 3++, and has all the [dis]advantages of flight rule. I don't know if they are so similar.

Death Company, sorta, but they are more anti-chaff, and besides, there is massive fluff difference. When similar unit expands the background and flavor of the army, it's not really redundant, IMO.

Karol wrote:
GK termintors. Having them and paladins in the same codex at the same time, will always mean that one of the too will be overcosted. Same with purfires and strikes.

Funnily enough, that wasn't the case in 5th. I saw all four units regularly see play, especially seeing they all could have been made troops with right HQ. Sadly, then the writer who did amazing job making three one dimensional armies into proper, standalone books left over 4chan whinging and GW were mangled by incompetent successor.

It's doubly funny when you recall what the other side of the 5th edition GK whining was. "Waaa, they are too cheap!". Never mind the 'too cheap' were based on cherrypicked nonsense comparisons with other books by Ward hater crowd, and the fact GK could fight all other armies as more or less equals, it's really amusing to recall that when today virtually all GK players point to the army being ruined by being too expensive and having too little options to make them worthwhile or even capable of fulfilling basic battlefield roles, things that GK had before...

pm713 wrote:
But they're all redundant. Not one of them brings something new.

I like the thinly veiled bashing grasping at straws in an effort to find not-utterly absurd arguments against primaris. Like it or not, primaris are the least redundant SM army part. Take off the blinkers, each unit does specialized, clearly defined thing without stepping on each other's toes. Compared to tacticals, extra wound and different guns are massive game-changer that differentiates them more than tacticals differ from say orks or IG troopers (big whoopedoo, the tacticals are slightly more accurate and harder to wound, needing to roll one pip less is nowhere near the difference being able to eat twice the wounds or arm the squad with very different rifles makes). Tacticals are utterly redundant with devastators and are just veterans with 1 less attack, assaults are just tacticals with chainswords instead of bolters, yawn. If you deleted the squatmarines from Codex:SM, it would be much smaller loss than primaris part, add next primaris wave and it won't even be a contest.

Leman Russ vanquisher, no better than the battle tank at heavy armour, worse if the target has an invuln and much worse against any other target in the game.

Wyrdvane psykers - so much worse than astropaths or primaris psykers and no character protection.