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Deadshot wrote: Also, this is the background section. TT is irrelevant right now as its an abstract of the background.
My point exactly! So why bring in the mobility penalty of the lascannon-carrying Marine? When it's mirrored by the heavy bolter-carrying Marine? These weapons behave on the TT like one-shot weapons, whether they're fully automatic, semi-automation, or "one-shot" in the lore (EDIT: well three shots so not quite, I was more thinking of standard infantry weapons, my bad ). So, let's humour the other poster for a second and say the rate of fire for the lascannon matched the heavy bolter... the changes? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They were claiming there isn't a las equivalent of the heavy bolter; there is. If they want a "machine-gun" las, there's the multilaser. If they want a heavy weapon-type heavy lasgun, that can be carried by Marines plugged into their backs, etc - you know, exactly as they described in the post I replied to - then there's the lascannon. On the TT, sure, they fire one shot at a time, in the lore, let's just pretend that, oh I don't know... the Marine in question simply squeezes the trigger a few more times? Especially seeing that the heavy bolter likely can't even fire at the same rate as a true "machinegun" anyway, because it's firing rocket-propelled explosive shells, not bullets.
How a machine gun fires;
How the heavy bolter is more likely to fire;
NONE of this is represented on the TT, including rates of fire and their man-portability. The point remains, therefore, the lascannon IS the las equivalent of the heavy bolter in terms of Marines carrying them around and firing them. It IS the heavy version of the lasgun, as the heavy bolter is the heavy version of the boltgun. So, so simple.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/12 17:32:21
Deadshot wrote: Also, this is the background section. TT is irrelevant right now as its an abstract of the background.
My point exactly! So why bring in the mobility penalty of the lascannon-carrying Marine? When it's mirrored by the heavy bolter-carrying Marine? These weapons behave on the TT like one-shot weapons, whether they're fully automatic, semi-automation, or "one-shot" in the lore (EDIT: well three shots so not quite, I was more thinking of standard infantry weapons, my bad ). So, let's humour the other poster for a second and say the rate of fire for the lascannon matched the heavy bolter... the changes? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They were claiming there isn't a las equivalent of the heavy bolter; there is. If they want a "machine-gun" las, there's the multilaser. If they want a heavy weapon-type heavy lasgun, that can be carried by Marines plugged into their backs, etc - you know, exactly as they described in the post I replied to - then there's the lascannon. On the TT, sure, they fire one shot at a time, in the lore, let's just pretend that, oh I don't know... the Marine in question simply squeezes the trigger a few more times? Especially seeing that the heavy bolter likely can't even fire at the same rate as a true "machinegun" anyway, because it's firing rocket-propelled explosive shells, not bullets.
How a machine gun fires;
How the heavy bolter is more likely to fire;
NONE of this is represented on the TT, including rates of fire and their man-portability. The point remains, therefore, the lascannon IS the las equivalent of the heavy bolter in terms of Marines carrying them around and firing them. It IS the heavy version of the lasgun, as the heavy bolter is the heavy version of the boltgun. So, so simple.
Nothing of what I mentioned is relevant to the table top. I' speaking purely in lore terms.
Space Marines can hand carry weapons designed for use by Heavy Weapons Teams of humans, such as HB, LC,Autocannons, etc. But they arent particularly mobile and dont carry them like its nothing. They are large, slow weapons that take a bit of time and positioning to get the best out of them. That is represented in the lore as well as the table.
Lascannons and HBs are nothing alike. They do completely different jobs, one being a larger, bigger caliber automatic weapon designed for infantry suppression. The other is a tank killer, low RoF.
Deadshot wrote: Nothing of what I mentioned is relevant to the table top. I' speaking purely in lore terms.
So, again; why did you use mobility as a counterpoint for their equivelancy (particularly in context of my post in reply to the one it was quoting)???
Especially when you follow with something that goes in line with what I was using to prove their equivelancy to begin with:
Space Marines can hand carry weapons designed for use by Heavy Weapons Teams of humans, such as HB, LC,Autocannons, etc. But they arent particularly mobile and dont carry them like its nothing. They are large, slow weapons that take a bit of time and positioning to get the best out of them. That is represented in the lore as well as the table.
Lascannons and HBs are nothing alike.
Something that is factually incorrect. As supported by BOTH our comments. A bread knife and a carving knife do completely different jobs. Yet to say they are nothing alike is nonsense. I think part of the problem is that you're looking at the HB as if it's an IRLMG, which is actually equivelant to 40K's stubbers, autoguns, assault cannons, etc. A HB may be decribed as an "infantry suppression" weapon, but that's only really because "infantry" can include Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks, and other stuff that, IRL, would easily pass for light and even moderately armoured targets. Against "soft" infantry/targets, a HB is way overkill and wasteful of costly resources for that job. It's better-suited to heavy infantry and light vehicles. It's not really there to be what IRLMGs are. Again, look to stubbers, autoguns - and for Marines assault cannons - for that sort of role.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/12 21:13:22
Anfauglir wrote: Against "soft" infantry/targets, a HB is way overkill and wasteful of costly resources for that job. It's better-suited to heavy infantry and light vehicles. It's not really there to be what IRLMGs are. Again, look to stubbers, autoguns - and for Marines assault cannons - for that sort of role.
This is not true.
Guard infantry regiments use heavy bolters for infantry suppression in the same way that a modern soldier might use an M240B (except the heavy bolter is huge and heavy, so more like a crew served M240B). The heavy bolter is the Guard infantry machinegun basically. Heavy stubbers (equivalent to browning M2) shoot faster but are less powerful.
I honestly wish standard guard had access to a heavy stubber or a crew served multilaser as a heavy weapon, I would take those over the heavy bolter any day. Guard using bolters just seems wrong to me. Bolters are a marine weapon.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/12 21:39:14
Okay, maybe if I'd said "shouldn't be there for that" rather than "they're not there for that" (which is more to do with GW game designers not really understanding weaponry that well)... otherwise - yes, it's very true. Using what's essentially an automatic RPG on anything that's soft for suppression purposes is both overkill and wasteful of resources. Extremely so. An actual MG equivelant is a much more suitable weapon for that purpose, leaving the HB for that which it's better-suited, heavy infantry and light vehicles, as I explained.
Guard infantry regiments use heavy bolters for infantry suppression in the same way that a modern soldier might use an M240B (except the heavy bolter is huge and heavy, so more like a crew served M240B). The heavy bolter is the Guard infantry machinegun basically. Heavy stubbers (equivalent to browning M2) shoot faster but are less powerful.
Yeah I already explained why this is. A lot of what passes for "infantry" in the 40K setting would easily qualify IRL as light - and sometimes even moderate - armoured targets. That doesn't make the HB a literal equivalent to an IRLMG, though, like what Deadshot had been saying.
I honestly wish standard guard had access to a heavy stubber or a crew served multilaser as a heavy weapon, I would take those over the heavy bolter any day. Guard using bolters just seems wrong to me. Bolters are a marine weapon.
There's nothing in the lore to say that they (you) can't. Pretty sure stubbers as a heavy weapons option exists on the TT, too (at least with Forgeworld lists). So, yeah, they do have access. EDIT: In fact, a lot of this is why in my headcanon/fanfiction, the multilaser does indeed exist more commonly alongside the other heavy crew/vehicle/turret options in Guard/PDF/etc. It's also why my Tau Fire Warrior squads come with a two-Tau burst cannon team, and why Black Sun squads generally come with two light stubbers as SSWs (one for each fire team). Just little things like that that GW game designers don't/can't think about.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/12 22:54:07
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Actually a lastalon would be more fitting as it is at least a multi shot. I was looking at a MULTI SHOT weapon. Not a one shot. REMOVED
Well it's a good job you never specified as such in your initial description then, otherwise I'd have looked pretty silly there instead of you.
Spoiler:
*psst* multilasers are still a thing
Spoiler:
*second psst* not sure you understand you're posting on 40K Background, and there's a clear disconnect between TT weapon profiles and their place/behaviour in the lore; I.e; most weapons on the TT are single shot, if you want to get technical about it
REMOVED
You do realise I name checked multilasers in my original post right? Also, as agreed earlier in the thread, hotshot volley guns are probably the weapon I was looking for.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/13 07:41:36
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I hate CS Goto's prose. I think he's a dreadful writer and his Blood Ravens omnibus was a real slog to get through.
However, I never understood the flak he got for suggesting Space Marines would use multilasers. They're specialists with extensive access to the Imperium's armouries. If they were facing Tyranids, or Orks, or cultists I'd absolutely expect them to deploy reliable weaponry with an exceptional rate of fire. I daresay it'd be a 'tactical' application. If only said marines could be deployed tactically in any sense on the tabletop...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/29 10:38:45
Deadshot wrote: Nothing of what I mentioned is relevant to the table top. I' speaking purely in lore terms.
So, again; why did you use mobility as a counterpoint for their equivelancy (particularly in context of my post in reply to the one it was quoting)???
Especially when you follow with something that goes in line with what I was using to prove their equivelancy to begin with:
Because mobility is a factor in the fluff as well as the tabletop. I never said they weren't equally heavy, only they the tasks they are designed to carry out are completely different and trying to swap the two would be pointless. A LAscannon can't cut down an Ork horde in one pull of the trigger and a Heavy Bolter can't blast apart a heavily armoured tank in a single shot.
Space Marines can hand carry weapons designed for use by Heavy Weapons Teams of humans, such as HB, LC,Autocannons, etc. But they arent particularly mobile and dont carry them like its nothing. They are large, slow weapons that take a bit of time and positioning to get the best out of them. That is represented in the lore as well as the table.
Lascannons and HBs are nothing alike.
Something that is factually incorrect. As supported by BOTH our comments. A bread knife and a carving knife do completely different jobs. Yet to say they are nothing alike is nonsense. I think part of the problem is that you're looking at the HB as if it's an IRLMG, which is actually equivelant to 40K's stubbers, autoguns, assault cannons, etc. A HB may be decribed as an "infantry suppression" weapon, but that's only really because "infantry" can include Space Marines, Tyranids, Orks, and other stuff that, IRL, would easily pass for light and even moderately armoured targets. Against "soft" infantry/targets, a HB is way overkill and wasteful of costly resources for that job. It's better-suited to heavy infantry and light vehicles. It's not really there to be what IRLMGs are. Again, look to stubbers, autoguns - and for Marines assault cannons - for that sort of role.
Yes, a bread knife and carving knife can do the same jobs. There is not comparison here. A heavy bolter is a high ROF infantry suppression weapon and a Lascannon is a slow ROF armour buster. Yes, a bread knife and a carving knife do the same job, but a HB and a LC are neither. An LMG and a 50cal bolt action sniper can both kill infantry, but one is much better at it that the other. An LMG and a 50cal sniper can both theoretically kill an MBT (assuming that MBT is built in the rediculous way of 40k, with treads and fuel cells exposed), but one is much better at it than the other.
Your comparison of "infantry" to modern humans is irrelevant. It does not matter when comparing it to 21st century. A HB would be enough to rip apart any modern vehicle. Its irrelevant because we are dealing with 40K, not 21C. A Heavy Bolter performs the role, relative to the targets of the 41st Millennium, that a modern MG would perform on humans.
Okay, maybe if I'd said "shouldn't be there for that" rather than "they're not there for that" (which is more to do with GW game designers not really understanding weaponry that well)... otherwise - yes, it's very true. Using what's essentially an automatic RPG on anything that's soft for suppression purposes is both overkill and wasteful of resources. Extremely so. An actual MG equivelant is a much more suitable weapon for that purpose, leaving the HB for that which it's better-suited, heavy infantry and light vehicles, as I explained.
Guard infantry regiments use heavy bolters for infantry suppression in the same way that a modern soldier might use an M240B (except the heavy bolter is huge and heavy, so more like a crew served M240B). The heavy bolter is the Guard infantry machinegun basically. Heavy stubbers (equivalent to browning M2) shoot faster but are less powerful.
Yeah I already explained why this is. A lot of what passes for "infantry" in the 40K setting would easily qualify IRL as light - and sometimes even moderate - armoured targets. That doesn't make the HB a literal equivalent to an IRLMG, though, like what Deadshot had been saying.
Again, this is only relative to the targets. An actual "MG equivelent," which I can only assume you mean is a Heavy Stubber, does not have the power to perform that job against Orks, Necrons and some medium Tyranids. 40k deals with a number of possible enemy combatants with biological differences, not just humans. The HB does the JOB of a modern MG, because the basic infantry of the 40k setting is "heavy infantry." However, technological and biological upscaling means that in the setting they are light infantry. The HB is relative to the targets. Orks, for example, are all but immune to the modern assault rifle as represented by the autogun, reflected on the table by being a Toughness above the "Equals" point of the weapon, and represented in the fluff by Bolters being designed to penetrate their flesh and armour. In the same way as a HMG is designed to ensure a kill against a human by hitting with a more powerful round that necessary, the HB does the same against Orks.
Because we are dealing with 40k, not real life. Its relative.
I honestly wish standard guard had access to a heavy stubber or a crew served multilaser as a heavy weapon, I would take those over the heavy bolter any day. Guard using bolters just seems wrong to me. Bolters are a marine weapon.
There's nothing in the lore to say that they (you) can't. Pretty sure stubbers as a heavy weapons option exists on the TT, too (at least with Forgeworld lists). So, yeah, they do have access. EDIT: In fact, a lot of this is why in my headcanon/fanfiction, the multilaser does indeed exist more commonly alongside the other heavy crew/vehicle/turret options in Guard/PDF/etc. It's also why my Tau Fire Warrior squads come with a two-Tau burst cannon team, and why Black Sun squads generally come with two light stubbers as SSWs (one for each fire team). Just little things like that that GW game designers don't/can't think about.
They design an abstract and streamlined idea of warfare that appeals to a wide variety of people, from 12 year olds interested in cool looking supersoldiers and aliens, not just gun nuts who criticise the difference between A and B based on a tiny misgiving.
The reason, in real canon, that the guard use HB not stubbers, as mentioned above, is because the Stubber is too weak relative to the targets to perform duties as a suppression weapon. The HB was made as a replacement, a stronger gun for tougher targets. Just like how modern weapons were updated to keep up with improved body armour and vehicles, the Heavy Stubber became the heavy bolter.
As for Multilasers, I'm sure that the reason is due to the massive supercapacitors or whatever is required to power them for multiple high ROF bursts are not man portable. As we know from the SM Devastators, the smallest possible Lascannon, firing single shots, requires 1 Astartes to carry and almost the entirety of his backpack, while a 2 man team of humans can move and fire a Lascannon, after careful setup and bracing. They cannot carry the weapon like a rifle or bazooka the way a Space Marine can. We also know that the larger Godhammer pattern Lascannons require fuel cells the size of 4-6 Space Marines, based on the Land Raider vs Crusader pattern transport capacities, and depending if you take the capacity of a Land Raider to be 10 or 12, which varies with publications, and also whether this is an accurate or abstract representation for game purposes. Regardless, we know las weaponry requires bigger and bigger capacitors to power the stronger they get. The Hotshot Lasgun requires a large power cell backpack to operate. The tiny "magazine" isn't enough. Scaling this pack up to Multilaser scale would likely make it too large to man-carry. The Lascannon gets away with it by being a single shot or otherwise low ROF weapon so the capacitor can fire single shots fire but wouldn't be able to sustain a ML level rate.
I think that in 2nd Ed the multilaser used the same power cells as lascannon. But it still wasn't in any of the weapon teams (it was not like the current weapon teams. Maybe like modern miniguns they are not man portable. Maybe they need a rapier like track system.
Comparing a heavy bolter to a lascannon is like comparing an MG to an AT rifle in WW2. Both too big to be individual weapons, but operated by a single person and they have different jobs.
I’m going to see if I can clear some things up here. There’s a few missunderstandings that keep popping up in this thread.
Hotshot lasgun: this keeps coming up. The fact that the hotshot lasgun is arguably more powerfully then a bolter. This is due to a change in the hotshot lasgun back in 5e. Originally it was called a hellgun (High energy laser gun-helgun) and had stats that made it slightly weaker then a bolt gun (lasgun: 24”, str:3, ap:-, RF. hellgun: 24” str:3, ap:5+, RF. boltgun: str:4, ap:5+, RF). At the same time as the plastic stormtroopers (militarum temptestus) was released the hellgun was changed to hot shot lasgun (hellgun: 24” str:3, ap:5+, RF. Hotshot lasgun: 24”, str:3, ap:3+, RF). The new hotshot lasgun was straight up better then a boltgun except when facing hordes of lightly armoured enemies. The original intention was that the boltgun was to be the most powerful non-specialist weapon (plasma gun/meltagun/storm bolter) the Imperium has. With the inclusion of the hotshot lasgun this was no longer true. Space marines, originally supposed to be armed with the best weapons in the Imperium, wasn’t given any hotshot lasgun equivalent (with the exception of sternguard veterans special ammo). Since then this has been a subject of discussion. Why don’t astartes have hotshot lasguns? Because they are supposed to be weaker then a boltgun.
TLDR: Gw screwed up hot shot lasguns and never fixed them. Bolters are supposed to be more powerful then hotshot lasguns.
Multi lasers: the multi laser has never been given an AM heavy weapons team model or an astartes devastator model. For the astartes I assume that the heavy bolter and plasma canon fulfill its battlefield role well enough. If not the astartes frequently makes use of the assault canon which is more powerfull then the multi laser. Apart from that I can’t think of any lore justification why it’s not used by the marines or by the guard heavy weapons teams.
TLDR: don’t know really. Comparatively not very powerfull for its size? Plasma canon/assult canon does a better job.
Heavy stubber: As others have pointed out these are actually FW options for AM heavy weapon teams. Most notably the DKoK come with them. For whatever reason this is not represented in the codex. The guard does in fact use them extensively. Space marines does not because the heavy bolter does the same job better.
Shhhh! Don't point out obvious things that exist and match what they're describing... this one's feelings are delicate.
Don't you know? Marines using Multilasers is totally a thing, while they backflip onto Razorbacks!
Only if they’re in Terminator armour.
Spoiler:
(This stuff is from a short story that was so factually incorrect it’s a meme at this point)
Edit: small rant. The hotshot lasgun was lorewise, in both the DH roleplay games, the codex and described in BL published books originally just a laspack that was overcharged. It would empty its magazine in a single powerfull shot that was STILL WEAKER THEN A BOLT SHELL. A kind of last ditch measure guards could use in a tight situation. Throw your mag into a fire, let it get into hotshotmode, fire and then discard the pack. Hotshot lasgun packs where one use only and had to be discarded after use. A laspack could also be overcharged to decrease the clip size but deliver a slightly more powerfull shot. This decreased the guns reliability though and the lasgun would frequently jam or break if overcharged or hot shot mags where used. Remember that these where all just variations of the guards standard las pack. No different manufacturing needed, all was in how you charged the pack. Since 5ed the lore on lasguns has been very contradictory in this regard
Edit 2: TLDR: GW, check your own lore before you change things.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/08/13 12:06:42
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
How has this discussion gone on this long. Marines have boltguns because they are better and they always have. Las guns could be better but they aren’t allowed to be. In game or fluff, bolters are better. Las guns are cheap and simple. Minimal maintanance and easy resupply. U can recharge a las gun cell by putting it in a fire. It is explained in so many buts of fluff why guards use lasguns and marines bolters. Real life has nothing to do with it, as neither bolters nor lasguns exist. (Grenade launchers aren’t bolters).
Tygre wrote: Back in the day (2nd ed and Necromunda) boltguns and hotshot lasguns were exactly the same. In Necromunda they even both had the same ammo roll, 6+.
SM ammo takes up LOTS of space, and fighting orks I just don't think they realistically can carry enough ammo, to fight a huge ork army, even if they allied themselves with more chapters, that's why I think it would be more suited for IG to let them have 7.62 rounds and 50 cal for mounted guns, and let the tanks and artillery do the main aoe damage.
Where SM should rely on the single marine to do the main bulk of damage and can stay out for prolonged period of time solo, besides they're supposed to be futuristic soldiers, so anything las would be more fitting for them.
I like to believe Bolters have intergrated/underslung lasguns.
You know those little rods sticking out under the barrel of a bolter? That's the las lens! Draws power from the marines main systems to fire when the bolter is out of ammo or stealth is required.
Anfauglir wrote: There's nothing in the lore to say that they (you) can't. Pretty sure stubbers as a heavy weapons option exists on the TT, too (at least with Forgeworld lists). So, yeah, they do have access. EDIT: In fact, a lot of this is why in my headcanon/fanfiction, the multilaser does indeed exist more commonly alongside the other heavy crew/vehicle/turret options in Guard/PDF/etc. It's also why my Tau Fire Warrior squads come with a two-Tau burst cannon team, and why Black Sun squads generally come with two light stubbers as SSWs (one for each fire team). Just little things like that that GW game designers don't/can't think about.
Standard codex guard has no option to take stubbers in a heavy weapons team. Even in the FW index I think the only options are krieg heavy weapons squad that can take a twin linked heavy stubber. So unless you want to play krieg...
Every book about IG I have ever read has them using heavy bolters in place of machine guns. Multilasers are only mentioned as vehicle weapons.
A heavy bolter is a guard machine gun. Functionally, a heavy bolter is not comparable to a modern machinegun, however due to the nature of the threats that the IG often face, the heavy bolter is used in that role.
Again, I really wish guard didn't get access to bolt weaponry. It would separate them more from space marines, and I think the SM would really appreciate normal humans keeping their grubby hands off of their holy guns.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/08/14 09:42:29
There’s a scene in piscina iv book where some guard complain to dark angels about them having it easier with their fancy guns and armour, the marine states how much work and expense goes into making a bolt gun and why would the imperium waste it on humans who are going to run away. Sums it up in a very arrogant way.
Andykp wrote: There’s a scene in piscina iv book where some guard complain to dark angels about them having it easier with their fancy guns and armour, the marine states how much work and expense goes into making a bolt gun and why would the imperium waste it on humans who are going to run away. Sums it up in a very arrogant way.
Arrogant from those turncoat traitors incredibly loyal Astartes . Arrogant, but true. Why give a super complex and expensive weapon to a soldier with an expected lifespan of days or weeks, whether killed by the enemy or executed for cowardice?
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Corennus wrote: Um no. That's is a laser, but it's only a targeting laser like modern laser aiming on rifles.
It's my headcanon. Beside which, you're thinking of the targeting laser on top of the barrel. I'm referring to the structural bolt under the barrel. Good dismissal though.
Andykp wrote: There’s a scene in piscina iv book where some guard complain to dark angels about them having it easier with their fancy guns and armour, the marine states how much work and expense goes into making a bolt gun and why would the imperium waste it on humans who are going to run away. Sums it up in a very arrogant way.
Arrogant from those turncoat traitors incredibly loyal Astartes . Arrogant, but true. Why give a super complex and expensive weapon to a soldier with an expected lifespan of days or weeks, whether killed by the enemy or executed for cowardice?
Yeah, the guardsman is a disposable part of the lasgun.
Andykp wrote: There’s a scene in piscina iv book where some guard complain to dark angels about them having it easier with their fancy guns and armour, the marine states how much work and expense goes into making a bolt gun and why would the imperium waste it on humans who are going to run away. Sums it up in a very arrogant way.
that sounds great, what novel is that?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Andykp wrote: There’s a scene in piscina iv book where some guard complain to dark angels about them having it easier with their fancy guns and armour, the marine states how much work and expense goes into making a bolt gun and why would the imperium waste it on humans who are going to run away. Sums it up in a very arrogant way.
that sounds great, what novel is that?
Purging of Kadillus, I think?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/15 10:06:04
Nerak wrote: Space marines have long las sniper rifles. The guard has solid projectile sniper rifles. Wrap your head around that one!
When did that happen? Last time I read the fluff properly, Ratlings and Space Marine scouts both used needle rifles (which use a laser to propel the projectile, which is why the Space Marine Scouts' weapon looks awfully like a beefed-up lasgun).
Going by the miniatures, the power cells for a multilaser are the same size as the ones for a lascannon, at least on a Sentinel. The only reason I can think of why it's never been depicted as a man-portable heavy weapon is the multilaser's original description in the 1st edition rulebook, where it's described as a large and bulky weapon used in fixed emplacements and vehicles (a bit like the autocannon, which was originally supposed to represent the main gun on a tank; the battlecannon came along later).
Ian Watson's Space Marine has the protagonists as Imperial Fists, undergoing vacuum/zero-G combat training in power armour as part of their progression from Scouts, using lasguns with the power dialled down.
). So, let's humour the other poster for a second and say the rate of fire for the lascannon matched the heavy bolter... the changes? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They were claiming there isn't a las equivalent of the heavy bolter; there is. If they want a "machine-gun" las, there's the multilaser. If they want a heavy weapon-type heavy lasgun, that can be carried by Marines plugged into their backs, etc - you know, exactly as they described in the post I replied to - then there's the lascannon. On the 
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