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 SHUPPET wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:


The HBC's are 12 shots each, and it has 2 of them. That is 24 shots.
the S8 AP1 D1-3 weapon is the Cyclic Ion Blasters, that it can replace the mini Burst Cannons with.

It has the exact stats I said it had.

Oh ok, I can only assume there's been an FAQ for that IA book that I've missed, as my book says they're 8 shots each, and the mini Burst Cannons can't be replaced with anything. I have all the updates from the official FAQ/Errata for IA:Xenos, do you happen to know where the other updates are?

 SHUPPET wrote:

The thread is not for the most points efficient, or else something a Chaos Cultist or something dumb win everything.

The thread is for, quote, "what single model that isn't an HQ or a Lord of War is the most dangerous killy thing".

It's absolutely the Tigershark. Even taking into account points though, it's still better than the Levi imo.

Very true, and yeh you might be right. Tigershark is pretty beastly.

GW stated that index units use the most recent rulings for any gear they have, and HBC got an improved profile in the dex, which is part of the reason that Tigershark's efficiency skyrocketed, considering it holds 2 of them and was balanced around a different weapon profile.

As for the burst cannons, it says on the datasheet that they can be replaced with Cyclic Ion Blasters under wargear options!

I definitely think this one is a no-contest, at least compared to all the submissions I've seen so far. There's probably some other FW flyer out there with an even better profile that I don't know of because it's so overcosted that nobody plays it lol

Ahh, I didn't think to check the Tau codex, a lot of the named IA weapons are often Forgeworld inventions so I didn't think they were standard Tau as well. That's a big improvement, did the points change as well?

I'm looking at the wargear right now, and it only has three options -

- Take up to 6 Seekers
- Replace Ion Cannons with HBC or Rails
- Replace transport with missiles

Not arguing or saying you're lying or anything, I'm seriously just curious as to why my copy of IA seems to be wrong or different to yours! I know GW have a habit of releasing different rules for different translations sometimes by mistake, and things like that.

 SHUPPET wrote:
You guys really need to look at the Fighter Bomber. Anyone saying the leviathan, is not even even close.

Tigershark:

24x S6 AP1 D2 shots
2D6x S6 AP2 D2 shots
4x S7 AP1 D1-3 shots
6x S8 AP1 D1-3 shots
6x S8 AP2 D1-6 seekers

2+ BS, and your normal Tau staples allow it to fire seekers at natural BS too as an added buff

Also T8, 16W and Hard to Hit

It's pretty clear cut some far

That is a lot of dakka for 429pts wow. Ok, Tiger Shark wins. Any other contenders? Who's next!

Isn't the Tigershark a Lord of War? I don't play tau, but I remember it was one in previous editions. Did they un-Lord-of-War it?

It's just a Flyer now! You can take them in multiples in a regular Tau battalion

Niiru wrote:
Funny how all the overpowered stuff seems to be Imperium...

The horus heresy series means there are a lot of hastily updated marine/chaos marine forgeworld units to choose from.

Also, large kits and Forgeworld kits are more risky than other races/ranges, so you're always going to see more large Imperium kits, and more Forgeworld Imperium kits than any other race/range.

They do outsell most other ranges by an order of magnitude. What % of the FW catalogue is Imperium based, at least 70-80%? By default then you'll have a much higher percentage of strong large units, methinks.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Standard Custodians

Not necessarily the best by themselves, but certain Strategems can make them utter murder machines. Had a case last week with a single Custodian in close combat with 6 GK Paladins; survived everything they threw at him without taking a single wound, proceeded to slaughter 3 of them thanks to 2CP.

Out of interest what Stratagems make them murder machines?

 Elbows wrote:
Also, large kits and Forgeworld kits are more risky than other races/ranges, so you're always going to see more large Imperium kits, and more Forgeworld Imperium kits than any other race/range.

They do outsell most other ranges by an order of magnitude. What % of the FW catalogue is Imperium based, at least 70-80%? By default then you'll have a much higher percentage of strong large units, methinks.

this is doubly so as many of the large kits are Imperium in general. Knights are an EXCELLENT example of this in action, Imperial Knights are avaliable as a lord of war to ANY IoM faction. I can plunk down a single IK in a LOW slot for ANY Imperial army. Let's assume for a moment that 25% of the player base for any given faction will buy a large Knight model. A Ork Knight would be bought by Ork players. thats it. an Eldar knight? might be bought by craftworld, dark eldar and Hariquins thats a little better at least...

Iks? bought by space marine (who make up over half the sales of GW by themselves) players, IG players, Sisters players etc. even if 75% of eldar or Ork players would buy a super heavy, to only 30% of IoM players, the IoM super heavy will likely outsell the Ork and eldar ones.

A.T. wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Funny how all the overpowered stuff seems to be Imperium...

The horus heresy series means there are a lot of hastily updated marine/chaos marine forgeworld units to choose from.

Yeah but Imperium always gets the strictly better versions of them (looking at you hellforged leviathan )

barboggo wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Funny how all the overpowered stuff seems to be Imperium...

The horus heresy series means there are a lot of hastily updated marine/chaos marine forgeworld units to choose from.

Yeah but Imperium always gets the strictly better versions of them (looking at you hellforged leviathan )

The hellforged Leviathan is actually pretty good...

I'm more annoyed by the imperium getting - primaris, hellblasters, centurions, landspeeders, jet bikes, cataphractii armour as standard, tartarus armour, razorbacks, assassins, storm shields (I mean Wtf storm shields?!) and so on and so on.

All of that stuff should just be in the chaos codex as standard, especially all the old gear. Primaris OK, maybe not (I wouldn't really want it unless fabius does something crazy with it) but chaos assassins would be awesome.

Also Wtf how did horus lose all the SNIPER RIFLES? He lose them in a poker game or something?

Niiru wrote:
I'm more annoyed by the imperium getting - primaris, hellblasters, centurions, landspeeders, jet bikes, cataphractii armour as standard, tartarus armour, razorbacks, assassins, storm shields (I mean Wtf storm shields?!) and so on and so on.

All of that stuff should just be in the chaos codex as standard, especially all the old gear.

It just leads to the same problem the vanilla marines are having right now - if everyone else gets your gear and more on top why even exist.

Niiru wrote:
Also Wtf how did horus lose all the SNIPER RIFLES? He lose them in a poker game or something?

There is a good chance he nuked the forge world for sniper rifles because someone put too much milk in his cereal.

barboggo wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Funny how all the overpowered stuff seems to be Imperium...

The horus heresy series means there are a lot of hastily updated marine/chaos marine forgeworld units to choose from.

Yeah but Imperium always gets the strictly better versions of them (looking at you hellforged leviathan )

Really ? Please show me how Imperium can smite without penalty like tsons can, or how we can give our marines S+2 and T+2, like poxwalkers can get, or how we can get our vehicles a 5+ inv sv and 5+ FNP like death guard, or how our guardsmen can auto wound regardless of toughness with S3 pistols like tzaangors can do ? Or how we can give our dreadnoughts guns that do MW by simply scoring hits ? How can i give girlyman a 2+ inv sv ?

 p5freak wrote:

barboggo wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Funny how all the overpowered stuff seems to be Imperium...

The horus heresy series means there are a lot of hastily updated marine/chaos marine forgeworld units to choose from.

Yeah but Imperium always gets the strictly better versions of them (looking at you hellforged leviathan )

Really ? Please show me how Imperium can smite without penalty like tsons can, or how we can give our marines S+2 and T+2, like poxwalkers can get, or how we can get our vehicles a 5+ inv sv and 5+ FNP like death guard, or how our guardsmen can auto wound regardless of toughness with S3 pistols like tzaangors can do ? Or how we can give our dreadnoughts guns that do MW by simply scoring hits ? How can i give girlyman a 2+ inv sv ?

None of those are FW units, except the MW dreads

But I'm happy to compare overall faction strength if you want. Imperial knights literally get a whole codex full of stratagems. Chaos gets knights too of course, just the strictly worse versions of them. Guess who's dominating the competitive meta at the moment? Hint: not Chaos. Hope this helps.

barboggo wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

barboggo wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Funny how all the overpowered stuff seems to be Imperium...

The horus heresy series means there are a lot of hastily updated marine/chaos marine forgeworld units to choose from.

Yeah but Imperium always gets the strictly better versions of them (looking at you hellforged leviathan )

Really ? Please show me how Imperium can smite without penalty like tsons can, or how we can give our marines S+2 and T+2, like poxwalkers can get, or how we can get our vehicles a 5+ inv sv and 5+ FNP like death guard, or how our guardsmen can auto wound regardless of toughness with S3 pistols like tzaangors can do ? Or how we can give our dreadnoughts guns that do MW by simply scoring hits ? How can i give girlyman a 2+ inv sv ?

None of those are FW units, except the MW dreads

But I'm happy to compare overall faction strength if you want. Imperial knights literally get a whole codex full of stratagems. Chaos gets knights too of course, just the strictly worse versions of them. Guess who's dominating the competitive meta at the moment? Hint: not Chaos. Hope this helps.

Uhhhh IoM is number one faction at the moment, but it's closely followed by Chaos & Aeldari. Chaos is super dominant in the meta right now.

barboggo wrote:
Chaos gets knights too of course, just the strictly worse versions of them

Strictly better versions of them - same rules, less restrictions.
What they don't get is the codex full of relics and stratagems.

If chapter approved addresses CP shenanigans (as it should) we'll see how the IoM holds up without its crutch.

Tyrannofex with a Rupture Cannon can be quite 'Killy', the ability to fire twice added in with some very useful Hive Fleet adaptations really helps.

barboggo wrote:

But I'm happy to compare overall faction strength if you want. Imperial knights literally get a whole codex full of stratagems. Chaos gets knights too of course, just the strictly worse versions of them. Guess who's dominating the competitive meta at the moment? Hint: not Chaos. Hope this helps.

Imperial knights will get nerfed soon, either when the next big FAQ comes out, or CA 2018. The entire chaos with its insane buffs will not get nerfed. Tsons can do up to 40 MW per turn, depending on points. Tell me, how can an imperium army do that ??

Good. Filthy imperials deserve it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

barboggo wrote:
Chaos gets knights too of course, just the strictly worse versions of them

Strictly better versions of them - same rules, less restrictions.
What they don't get is the codex full of relics and stratagems.

If chapter approved addresses CP shenanigans (as it should) we'll see how the IoM holds up without its crutch.

Dude I will gladly trade our "less restrictions" knights (whatever that means) for your codex full of relics and stratagems. And while we're at it let's also trade our 5++ double butcher leviathan for your 4++ double storm cannon array leviathan. Let's face it, no one can compete with Imperium for OP FW units. The vast majority of FW products are Imperium allies. It's a silly argument.

Give me a chaos Telemon dreadnought equivalent. Then maybe we'll talk.

Situationally, but worth noting IMO, Ynnari Solitaire <Midnight Sorrow> with Relic Kiss.

- Blitz Moves 12 + 2D6 inches ignoring terrain, than charge 2D6 (remember to charge multiple things).
- Hits with 10 Attacks on 2+, re-rolling wounds and flat 3 against infantry.
- Kill something and soul burst for another 10 Attacks on 2+, re-rolling wounds and flat 3 against infantry
- Fight again or (and!) Fight-when you die stratagem for yet another 10 Attacks on 2+ re-rolling wounds and flat 3 against infantry.

Looks like Tau Tiger Shark fighter bomber is no.1 right now with the Custodes Telemon heavy dreadnought sitting at distant 2nd. Unless someone has some more insane, non-LoW FW flyers to poop on our Telemon here.