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Animus wrote:
The rulebook says Marines can typically live two to three times as long as regular humans, with some for whatever reason being able to live much longer. Assuming 150 is the max life span of a regular human then most Marines would ladt 300-450 years.
Blood Angels are said to live longer than other gene-seeds, with it not being too unusual for them to live to 1000 years.
I'd imagine Primaris Marines would last longer due to their enhanced gene-seed and Custodes are biologically immortal if I recall correctly.

the problem with that is a "400 year life span" is that we have a fair number of Marine named characters, and outside of Ragnar Blackmane, all of them are pretty old.

Dante is over a thousand years old, Logan Grimnar is over 600, Calgar's exact age hasn't been given but the 3rd edition codex refers to has as a chapter master in an event in the 600s M 41

now these Marines are proably well above the AVERAGE Marine age as they're exceptional people (average people don't get special character rules) but it does suggest things. If I was going to take a guess, a Marine starts to slow down at about a thousand years of age. but it's mostly academic because they're dead before then.


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 Crimson wrote:
I think an idea of an decrepit old marine seeking death in the battle like a dwarfish Slayer to avoid the indignity of dying in bed of old age is really cool. Of course because they're an incredibly experienced veteran of countless battles, they have unfortunately gotten really good at not dying in combat...

part of why I suggested it TBH. my gut feeling is that "in the absence of anything to the contrary, the assumed answer should be 'what makes the best story?"

BrianDavion wrote:
Calgar's exact age hasn't been given but the 3rd edition codex refers to has as a chapter master in an event in the 600s M 41

But we do know the oldest active Ultramarine is Chaplain Cassius (about 400 and only kept alive by extensive bionics and his hatred of Tyranids) who usually calls his Chapter Master "Young Calgar". The UM seem to have an exceptionally young (and gifted) Chapter Master.

Spetulhu wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Calgar's exact age hasn't been given but the 3rd edition codex refers to has as a chapter master in an event in the 600s M 41

But we do know the oldest active Ultramarine is Chaplain Cassius (about 400 and only kept alive by extensive bionics and his hatred of Tyranids) who usually calls his Chapter Master "Young Calgar". The UM seem to have an exceptionally young (and gifted) Chapter Master.

Sure and if we discount ONE case most of Calgar's referances date from the 1st Tyranid War onward, so I'm certainly willing to accept that he's on the younger side, but I suspect the pratical truth of the matter is that GW hasn't really pegged a age limit for Space Marines.

Such a marine already kind of exists - Ulrik the Slayer isn’t decrepit but he is old and suicidal. He continuously swears bigger and bolder oaths of destruction and keeps surviving them, sometimes he fulfills his oath, sometimes he gets robbed of his oath but he always survives.

 Haighus wrote:

Codex Insignium mentions crippled Marines being used in none-frontline roles, like mentoring Scouts and operating logistics. Some of these Marines could've avoided contact for centuries, and could die of old age if they didn't kill themselves of boredom first...

The Imperial Fists' chief Chaplain is one example (originally depicted in Ian Watson's Space Marine, but later incorporated in to the 3rd edition Index Astartes article along with the Chapter Master and Chief Librarian).


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 Dakka Wolf wrote:
The Space Wolves have information.
Logan Grimnar has served the Space Wolves for 500 to 800 years depending on how far forwards the story has progressed since the introduction of the Primaris Marines and is still hale and healthy. Ulrik the Slayer is the Wolf Priest who discovered Grimnar and since he was offered the title of Wolf Lord before turning it down and turning to the Wolf Priest path one can assume he was at least 200 years older than Grimnar, 200 being the minimum age for progression from Blood Claw to Grey Hunter, I say assume because Ragnar Blackmane is supposedly the only Space Wolf to jump the Grey Hunter stage to Wolf Guard, that doesn’t mean accomplishments might not make progression to Grey Hunter faster.
So, Grimnar at 500+ to 700+ and Dante holding top spot as oldest non Warp/Dreadbound/inactive Marine at 1000 to 1300 years would put Ulrik in the 700-1000 range before the arrival of Primaris Marines/Return of Girlyman/Fall of Cadia.
Space Mutts are freaks like the Blood Angels but they don’t drink blood to extend their lives so it can be assumed Space Marines are capable of a thousand years.

Where's that from? Specifically the bit about promotion to Grey Hunter being based on chronological age rather than combat experience? (Ragnar in fact joined the Wolf guard directly from being a Blood Claw, not a Grey Hunter).

As for consistency ...
Logan Grimnar was Chapter Master during the First War for Armageddon, and was originally selected as an Aspirant by Ulrik the Slayer. but Ulrik the Slayer only became a Wolf Priest after the First War for Armageddon ...

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Animus wrote:
The rulebook says Marines can typically live two to three times as long as regular humans, with some for whatever reason being able to live much longer. Assuming 150 is the max life span of a regular human then most Marines would ladt 300-450 years.
Blood Angels are said to live longer than other gene-seeds, with it not being too unusual for them to live to 1000 years.
I'd imagine Primaris Marines would last longer due to their enhanced gene-seed and Custodes are biologically immortal if I recall correctly.

The problem with trying to get hard numbers is for 40k the average human life is all over the place. On a hive or death world, unless your very high ranking, your looking at 20 to 30 on average. On a developed and well run world like most of those in Ultramar, I'd imagine the average would be much higher. The biggest problem with reaching a truly accurate picture is that marines both have access to both much better medicine and a literally super human constitutions but are also constantly exposed to insanely dangerous situations and that would knock down your average. We have a few examples of marines semi retiring when they are in the middle ground between good for another round and dreadnought. But any Marine that got left in that in between is damaged goods and that effects the outcome and future health. The only way to know for sure would be to lock a marine in a sterile room and wait to see if he drops dead at some point.

We're not talking about average lifespan though, but the maximal lifespan, the book says if they're not killed a Marine can live 2-3 times as long as a regular human. 150 is a very generous estimate for human life I'll admit, but I had remembered seeing something about a 146 year old man.

BrianDavion wrote:

Animus wrote:
The rulebook says Marines can typically live two to three times as long as regular humans, with some for whatever reason being able to live much longer. Assuming 150 is the max life span of a regular human then most Marines would ladt 300-450 years.
Blood Angels are said to live longer than other gene-seeds, with it not being too unusual for them to live to 1000 years.
I'd imagine Primaris Marines would last longer due to their enhanced gene-seed and Custodes are biologically immortal if I recall correctly.

the problem with that is a "400 year life span" is that we have a fair number of Marine named characters, and outside of Ragnar Blackmane, all of them are pretty old.

Dante is over a thousand years old, Logan Grimnar is over 600, Calgar's exact age hasn't been given but the 3rd edition codex refers to has as a chapter master in an event in the 600s M 41

now these Marines are proably well above the AVERAGE Marine age as they're exceptional people (average people don't get special character rules) but it does suggest things. If I was going to take a guess, a Marine starts to slow down at about a thousand years of age. but it's mostly academic because they're dead before then.

Nah as the rulebook says, most Marines can live for 2-3 times longer than a normal human, some Marines live for longer. Marines that don't age as poorly are the most likely to find themselves in charge based purely on their experience and seniority, and their not dying because they remain as fit as younger marines for longer. Cassius was considered to be very old at almost 400 years old, meanwhile the Blood Angels can reach 1000 and have it not be uncommon. Blood Angels aren't really considered as cut above other Marines in terms of strength and speed, so the only reason they'd have for Marines managing to live that long is if ageing doesn't affect them until later. Therefore I'd have to think age slows up most Space Marines long before they reach 1000.

It really is impossible to say much about Space Marine in relation to age. The subject is never really mentioned in any fluff (apart from some old fluff about ideal ages during the Space Marine creation process).
The only things we know about Space Marines in relation to age are as follows:

-Space Marine candidates (aspirants) are normally selected as children or adolescents (though a few Chapters deviate from this). We know this because it is mentioned in the background of many Chapters.

-It is considered ideal to begin the process of creating a Space Marine during adolescence, although the process can be done later in life as well, as happened frequently during the Great Crusade. There is however a certain age limit after which a full transformation is no longer possible. It is not known what this limit is but from the people who are too old in the HH fluff (such as Luther or Kor Phaeron) are generally described as old men.

-By the time the creation process is finished, Space Marines normally are full-grown adults. We know this because Space Marine scouts (neophytes) are always depicted as young adults.

-Space Marines have several time human life span, this is evidenced by the large amount of Space Marine characters that are 200-400 years old.

-Space Marines do age, as evidenced by older Marines being depicted as more wrinkly and with grey hair.

-The oldest living Space Marine is Dante at over a 1000 years old. He is considered extremely old. Age does not seem to affect him in a negative way.

-Space Marines can get much older however, as evidenced by a more than 10,000 year old Marine in the Salamander novels. They are not biologically immortal however, and age does catch up to them. The 10,000 year old Marine in question was still alive but very fragile on account of his great age.

-A Space Marine entombed in a dreadnought can get equally old, as evidenced by Bjorn who is over 10,000 years old. Age seems to affect Space Marines not only physically but also mentally, as older dreadnoughts are noted to spend most of their time asleep.

There’s always the cop out of warp shenanigans as well. Talos in the Night Lords books was present during the heresy, but only 100 years has passed to him. Space Marines are likely to spend considerable time in the warp.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Codex Insignium mentions crippled Marines being used in none-frontline roles, like mentoring Scouts and operating logistics. Some of these Marines could've avoided contact for centuries, and could die of old age if they didn't kill themselves of boredom first...

The Imperial Fists' chief Chaplain is one example (originally depicted in Ian Watson's Space Marine, but later incorporated in to the 3rd edition Index Astartes article along with the Chapter Master and Chief Librarian).


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 Dakka Wolf wrote:
The Space Wolves have information.
Logan Grimnar has served the Space Wolves for 500 to 800 years depending on how far forwards the story has progressed since the introduction of the Primaris Marines and is still hale and healthy. Ulrik the Slayer is the Wolf Priest who discovered Grimnar and since he was offered the title of Wolf Lord before turning it down and turning to the Wolf Priest path one can assume he was at least 200 years older than Grimnar, 200 being the minimum age for progression from Blood Claw to Grey Hunter, I say assume because Ragnar Blackmane is supposedly the only Space Wolf to jump the Grey Hunter stage to Wolf Guard, that doesn’t mean accomplishments might not make progression to Grey Hunter faster.
So, Grimnar at 500+ to 700+ and Dante holding top spot as oldest non Warp/Dreadbound/inactive Marine at 1000 to 1300 years would put Ulrik in the 700-1000 range before the arrival of Primaris Marines/Return of Girlyman/Fall of Cadia.
Space Mutts are freaks like the Blood Angels but they don’t drink blood to extend their lives so it can be assumed Space Marines are capable of a thousand years.

Where's that from? Specifically the bit about promotion to Grey Hunter being based on chronological age rather than combat experience? (Ragnar in fact joined the Wolf guard directly from being a Blood Claw, not a Grey Hunter).

As for consistency ...
Logan Grimnar was Chapter Master during the First War for Armageddon, and was originally selected as an Aspirant by Ulrik the Slayer. but Ulrik the Slayer only became a Wolf Priest after the First War for Armageddon ...

I can’t remember where I picked up the number but Blood Claw to Grey Hunter has always been based on age - when their hair turns grey, their fangs lengthen and their skin becomes like leather Blood Claws get promoted is part of just about every Space Wolves Codex entry for Grey Hunters. Unless they change form according to combat experience (not outside the realm of possibility, works for Pokémon) those changes come with age.
I mentioned Ragnar to acknowledge the potential of fallicy in my reasoning. Ragnar jumping the Grey Hunter stage entirely is from the Ragnar Blackmane series and sees mention in the Codex, the reason I brought him up was to point out that if a jump from Blood Claw to Wolf Guard is possible then surely a promotion to Grey Hunter based on heroics (because Space Wolves) is also a possibility but as far as I know hasn’t been mentioned anywhere.
So the three mentions of promotion to Grey Hunter that I’ve ever seen are Ragnar jumping it entirely, based on appearance and Lukas the Trickster being sentenced to never achieving it.

GW and consistency in general don’t get along so well. But I still love stringing information together, I can’t help myself.

200 for Grey Hunter seems really (really!) off. They're the standard marines, not veterans. Blood Claws are basically SW equivalent of the scout phase of the other chapters; you don't spend centuries, probably not even decades at that phase. You're probably confusing Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or something.

although Lukas ther Trickster's continued blood claw status suggests that the rank of grey hunter is more a mark of maturity then physical age

Lukas is a genuine sentence, he was sentenced to remain a Blood Claw.

 Crimson wrote:
200 for Grey Hunter seems really (really!) off. They're the standard marines, not veterans. Blood Claws are basically SW equivalent of the scout phase of the other chapters; you don't spend centuries, probably not even decades at that phase. You're probably confusing Grey Hunters and Long Fangs or something.

In a Codex compliant Chapter, it last about 2-3 years. It can't be much longer else Scout would have to outnumber Space Marines by a very high margin to allow Space Marines to recover from their casualties. Scions and Sisters have a slower recovery rates of their casualty. It takes longer for them to train new recruits.

phillv85 wrote:
There’s always the cop out of warp shenanigans as well. Talos in the Night Lords books was present during the heresy, but only 100 years has passed to him. Space Marines are likely to spend considerable time in the warp.

Yup, that's why I liked the big black books from ForgeWorld. Mr Bligh had some good idea's about the early crusade and the time dilation and how the early marines where sometimes in cold stasis during long voyages. There is so many good nuggets of interesting idea's in those books.

Blood Claws are the equivalent of Scouts in rank but the equivalent of Assault Marines in their battlefield roles, Power Armoured, foot slogging, Biking, Jump Packing glory seekers.

BrianDavion wrote:
although Lukas ther Trickster's continued blood claw status suggests that the rank of grey hunter is more a mark of maturity then physical age

As I recall a part of becoming a Grey Hunter is being a proper member of your Company not just a new recruit which is why it's something you become when you learn self control/accept you aren't actually an unstoppable god. But nobody likes Lukas, even Grimnar doesn't want him because he's awful for them.