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2018/12/13 10:32:14
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Slipspace wrote: You can't be this literal, surely? You understand he didn't literally throw the ship? He didn't literally put his hand around it and throw it, all 8km of it. You understand that, yes? Therefore, you see how the rest of the passage is a metaphor? Also, do you understand what 8 million tonnes of metal hitting a planet at extreme velocity would do? You don't even need to throw it at the planet, just let the planet's gravity pull it down and it'll cause one hell of a mess without any extra acceleration needed.
The planet's gravity wouldn't have sent the ship down at supersonic speeds like Khayon did.
Khayon with his psychic strength threw a star ship at a planet and shook it with the impact.
There is difference being an abstraction and being completely unrelated to the fluff. The fluff exist for the game. The whole fething point of the Magnus story that was quoted was to be background for a 40K campaign! If Magnus is so powerful that battles involving him cannot happen, then the writer has failed.
Then get out of this thread if it bothers you so much my friend.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/13 10:35:09
2018/12/13 10:47:14
Subject: Re:Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Onething123456 wrote:(especially with reference to a woman) making a pretense of shyness or modesty that is intended to be alluring. .
This supports what i said.
Enough for as for Khayon throwing it so hard to shake t he planet.
ADB is a smart guy. He knows (he wrote Talon of Horus) that millions of tons is not going to shake a planet just by dropping it.
I think we may have discovered part of the problem. You seem to fixate very strongly on minute details and either take them overly literally or attach some deep meaning to what are ultimately irrelevancies. I'll assume ADB is indeed a smart guy, as that seems reasonable. However, what you don't realise is that he likely didn't care about exactly how much force would be required to cause the planet to shake. You know why? Because the physics aren't as important to the story as the effect he's describing. He doesn't care that maybe he should have adjusted the type of ship used to make it larger, or maybe he should have described the velocity more accurately to increase the kinetic energy of the ship to something more reasonable to inflict the damage he describes, or described the structure of the planet's crust and core. Ultimately it doesn't matter. Only you seem to care about this sort of detail. To the author it sounds cool and reasonable, and that's all he needs to know.
Also, as pointed out multiple times, the planet's in the Eye of Terror, which basically gives him a get out of jail free card.
Onething123456 wrote:
Clearly physics were still working since the ship was thrown hard enough to shake the planet and cause tectonic unrest.
I did not think this thread would have turned out this way. Sorry for that.
Would you mind if I go do something else for now?
Clearly physics were still working since the ship was thrown hard enough to shake the planet and cause tectonic unrest.
Of course I mind! Get back here! You can't simply walk away from your responsibilities like that!
Two last questions. Why did you repeat yourself about the physics thing? There's literally two lines between the first and second times you used it. Also, what does it even mean? "Physics were still working"? I don't think you're grasping the point people are making about the planet being int he Eye of Terror.
2018/12/13 10:54:55
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Slipspace wrote: So tell us, oh great professor of extra-terrestrial geoscience, how much force would be required to mess with the tectonics on this fictional planet in a realm noted for its distinct lack of adherence to the laws of nature?
Well let's see, the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake released about 1×10^17 J of energy on the Earth's surface and much like this bit of fluff shook the whole planet at least a little bit (one centimeter).
So enough energy to destroy a real-life city. A low-end estimate to be certain, but enough to still demonstrate Khayon's power.
The only unclear bit is how the Eye of Terror factored into this. Let's see how much kinetic energy the ship flying at supersonic speeds would have produced:
Assuming it only went 343 meters per second (speed of sound) when breaking the sound barrier, and assuming 8,000,000 tons is accurate to the weight of a cruiser, the formula is as follows (tons converted to kilograms obviously):
Ek = 0.5 x 7,257,477,920 x (343)^2
Plugging these numbers in we get 426,917,509,905,040 joules, or 4.27 × 10^14, approaching enough to destroy a small city. Less than the prior figure, but I did lowball by assuming only the lowest possible velocity.
The physics seem to check out my friend.
2018/12/13 11:16:26
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Yeah, I ran the numbers myself. They don't account for potential energy stored within the ships, which could be very significant given what we know of the energy sources ships require. The bigger point here is the assumption we know anything about how the planet works at all. Its in the Eye of Terror and we basically have no information about its stability or structure so who can say what's actually required to cause tectonic upheaval?
2018/12/13 11:23:17
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Slipspace wrote: So tell us, oh great professor of extra-terrestrial geoscience, how much force would be required to mess with the tectonics on this fictional planet in a realm noted for its distinct lack of adherence to the laws of nature?
Well let's see, the 2004 Indian Ocean Earthquake released about 1×10^17 J of energy on the Earth's surface and much like this bit of fluff shook the whole planet at least a little bit (one centimeter).
So enough energy to destroy a real-life city. A low-end estimate to be certain, but enough to still demonstrate Khayon's power.
The only unclear bit is how the Eye of Terror factored into this. Let's see how much kinetic energy the ship flying at supersonic speeds would have produced:
Assuming it only went 343 meters per second (speed of sound) when breaking the sound barrier, and assuming 8,000,000 tons is accurate to the weight of a cruiser, the formula is as follows (tons converted to kilograms obviously):
Ek = 0.5 x 7,257,477,920 x (343)^2
Plugging these numbers in we get 426,917,509,905,040 joules, or 4.27 × 10^14, approaching enough to destroy a small city. Less than the prior figure, but I did lowball by assuming only the lowest possible velocity.
The physics seem to check out my friend.
Many People seem to not have any clue on how space works. Spaceships do not "hang out" in Space standing still. In fact there really is no such thing as standing still in space. There is only the velocity relative to something else. Assuming they were in a stable geostationary orbit around the planet the ships inital speed had to be around 3-4 km per second for a roughly earth sized planet. That is about 10 times your estimate. An Asteroid at 2km length hitting the earth would cause an major extinction event. This ship crashing into that planet at ludicrous Speed causing an earthquake all over the planet is VERY plausible. Of course you'd have to factor in the strength of the gravity and the thickness of the atmosphere of said planet. The atmosphere would slow the ship down quite a bit before Impact while stronger gravity would mean higher Initial Speed.
Astra Milit..*blam* Astra Milliwhat, heretic?
2018/12/13 15:17:04
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Void__Dragon wrote: At bare minimum we can determine the kinetic energy created to move the ship at supersonic speeds at all, which is still fairly impressive.
But to answer the larger question, no he isn't a planet buster based on that showing. The planet seems to still be around.
What did you think of the quote from Warzone Fenris: Wrath of Magnus? And there is Dak'ir from the Salamanders Omnibus.
Spoiler:
High above the Fang, the masterfully built spacecraft of the Grey Knights Chapter remote-scryed the location of the Daemon Primarch, calibrated their weapons batteries, and fired. Searing ruby-red beams shot from the heavens, all four converging upon the same point as the gunners of the Grey Knights fleet brought their deadliest weapons to bear. By rights they should have reduced Magnus to a steaming crater. In truth, they did little more than drive him to his knees; a hemisphere of invisible force protected him from physical attack, no matter how powerful. The Daemon Primarch rose, laughing cruelly at the impotence of the Imperial order founded to slay his kind.
The rune-casting psykers of Logan’s Great Company, gathered under Njal Stormcaller, did not despair. They sent bolts of psychic lightning, ghostly tempests, and blizzards of razored ice-knives that flayed to the bone the Tzaangors cavorting around their master’s feet. Yet none of their runic witchery even touched the Crimson King. If anything, Magnus seemed larger and more powerful than before the first salvo had been fired. The Crimson King’s laughter grew louder. Though he now hovered, wings beating slowly, above the Wolf’s Gullet, his voice sounded as if he were mere inches from the ear of all who witnessed him. Those who looked upon him directly did so with needles of pain stabbing their minds, for he glowed almost too bright to bear.
With Njal leading their chants, the most powerful of Fenris’ Rune Priests joined their might once more. Slowly, the vast chasm of the Gullet closed upon Magnus, its rocky edges like the jagged teeth of the World Wolf itself. Lava geysered and boiled as the chasm bit with the force of grinding tectonic plates. For a moment, the Daemon Primarch disappeared from sight. At the last, Magnus threw out his arms and held the rocky jaws wide with only his vast telekinetic power, the jagged teeth of the cliffs snapping to tumble into the fires below.
Grand Master Valdar Aurikon stretched out his hands, psychic lightning leaping towards Magnus in a great crackling helix. Magnus caught the attack on his staff and hurled it back, the bolt transforming the Grey Knight into scattering nuggets of fool’s gold.
Another focussed lance strike shot down from the heavens. This one Magnus did not dissipate upon his protective dome of force, but instead caught with the curve of his blade before hurling it outwards into the rumbling line of battle tanks that was cresting the ridge. The redirected energies hit home with cataclysmic force, smashing the entire column of war engines to smoking ruin. Then Magnus reached upwards, the eye in his palm blinking once as it focussed on the spacecraft high above. Uttering a low chant, the Crimson King extended his telekinetic mastery until it soared into the stratosphere and beyond. Space Wolf, Dark Angel and Grey Knight alike stood aghast as the sky was lit with expanding coronas of fire. Those Space Marines who auto-viewed the blazing phenomena witnessed Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers crashing into one another as if flung by some godly hand, their reactors overloading a moment later to throw all of Asaheim into stark monochromatic light.
Fenris had a new monarch, and he was mighty indeed.
What has that warzone Fenris quote got to do with literally anything?
"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it."
2018/12/13 15:55:17
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
“Try to imagine, then, the effect of the vastness of an entire city slain by a 2km long warship hurled from orbit, and bearing thousands of tonnes of volatile chemicals and tactical warheads right into the city’s heart.”
He still threw it hard enough to shake a planet and mess with tectonics. Tactical nukes would not do that, unless they were above teratons. And I quoted the other book to educate Crimson.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/13 16:04:38
2018/12/13 16:06:20
Subject: Re:Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
foostick wrote: What has that warzone Fenris quote got to do with literally anything?
He doesn't have this quoting thing down yet does he? One does not need to quote entire chapters when a paragraph or two is sufficient.
Besides, let's once again ignore the planet is in the EoT. The planet could have the consistency of pudding for when the ship impacted and it would bounce off for all we know.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2018/12/13 16:14:29
Subject: Re:Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
Onething123456 wrote: He still threw it hard enough to shake a planet and mess with tectonics. Tactical nukes would not do that, unless they were above teratons. And I quoted the other book to educate Crimson.
If you're posting something to educate someone you should, at the very least, point that out in the post itself. Kind of hard to be educated about something when you have no idea it's directed at you. It's in no way relevant to the discussion we were having. More importantly, it's the height of arrogance to think someone else needs educating about something and then to try to do it in a completely unrelated thread just further reinforces the bizarre futility of it.
2018/12/13 16:40:56
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
What the heck? He's back? I guess his last thread got locked again and he didn't get the quota of quotes and repeated lines in so he had to return here. Onething, can you not see how you're running in circles repeating the same things over and over? That's not how you win arguments, especially when they've either been rebuttled sufficiently or your quote dumps have absolutely no relevance.
Though I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears, you'll revert to your "bye, I'm off to fap" mode and create another thread after this.
2018/12/13 17:39:28
Subject: Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
I think its a bit overpowered for someone not as strong as Ahriman (who is not as strong as many other psykers. He has even said he is not the strongest psyker in anyway) to do this.
Well, whilst I'm not advocating it's not an awesome display of power (It is!) it's not that ridiculous.
The devastation would have been immense; even if "hurl" just means "give one last push into a converging orbit and let gravity do the rest".... an (ex) imperial warship is many kilometres long and whilst it's hollow, the bits that aren't will be in no small part adamantium and other exotic stuff not normally found on the periodic table so assuming the equivalent of a solid iron asteroid of the same size, you're not many orders of magnitude off the Chicxulub object (the dinosaur killer).
One observation - Khayon is a psyker in the same league as Ahriman; he is essentially chief librarian of the Black Legion, making him a direct peer to Ahriman as chief librarian of the thousand sons, and note that in Talon of Horus he is noted to have the title "kingbreaker" - " My Warmaster’s forces name me Kingbreaker – the mage who brought Magnus the Red to his knees."
That is a quote with no context - it doesn't necessarily mean forcing him to his literal knees with psychic power, but Magnus The Red is such an immensely powerful being that being said to "bring him to his knees" in ANY context is one hell of an achievement.
One observation is that Khayon is a telekinetic. Throwing the 'spear', warp gates (teleportation used to be a telekinesis discipline ability), kineshields, etc, etc - I can't think of anything especially impressive we've seen him do which doesn't fall into that broad discipline.
Ahriman's greatest gifts are as a prescient and a telepath, but he also has enough telekinetic oomph to create a warp rift for a small ship (ahriman exile), daemonology to bind a greater daemon with no preparation (ahriman sorceror) and to duplicte magnus' prospero-to-planet of sorcerors ritual (ahriman unchanged), as well as precision telekinesis to don and activate his power armour in the space of a few seconds whilst under fire (atlas infernal) - he strikes me as gifted in more disciplines rather than having necessarily more raw power than khayon.
It's kind of hard to compare power levels of khayon's telekinesis to ahriman's prescience, to be fair.
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2018/12/13 18:04:14
Subject: Re:Khayon throwing a star ship at a planet in Talon of Horus
2200pts/1750 painted
2800pts/1200 painted
2200pts/650 painted
217pts/151 painted 
