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Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Spoletta wrote:
Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!

Really? That's great! I'd love to get the details on that.

Presumably their using thr beta bolters rule.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
The GK hero dropped to the 200s with a narrow loss to IG & Smash Captains - no knights.


Where's our Necron legend gone?! :(


58th, which is pretty good for 700ish people.

4th game was narrow loss 27 to 22 to Ynnari. He won his 5th game against Indomitus Crusade.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




Illinois

 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!

Really? That's great! I'd love to get the details on that.

Presumably their using thr beta bolters rule.


Nope, it came out too late.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




Those termies are DW knights, so no, definitely not a bolter thing.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Kommisar wrote:


Nope, it came out too late.


Bit of a shame that they didn't grant it anyway even if lists couldn't be changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nick and Alex are finishing up one final round at 60 seconds a piece.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 00:42:07


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Kommisar wrote:


Nope, it came out too late.


Bit of a shame that they didn't grant it anyway even if lists couldn't be changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nick and Alex are finishing up one final round at 60 seconds a piece.
Tournaments regularly set a cut of date for new GW stuff, you don't want people to be surprised by last minute new info being sprung on them.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Some pretty interesting lists in the top 10. The one from Justin Curtis is really just messing with me I can't wrap my head around what some of these choices are for lol.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ordana wrote:
Tournaments regularly set a cut of date for new GW stuff, you don't want people to be surprised by last minute new info being sprung on them.


Oh agreed, but I figured it might have been minor enough to sneak through. Then again everyone practiced without that in mind, so, probably unfair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Salt Mine wrote:
Some pretty interesting lists in the top 10. The one from Justin Curtis is really just messing with me I can't wrap my head around what some of these choices are for lol.


Well, the warpsmith basically has a mini-smite that goes off more easily and a BS2 melta shot. For 60 points it's stupid cheap.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 02:19:49


[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I also don't get how that is a 1kson list his supreme command detatchment with all the nurgle stuff is almost 200 more points more than the 1ksons. Isn't your "army" your highest point detatchment in ITC?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL the drama in this T'au vs Admech game just got real.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 03:00:30


 
   
Made in us
Foolproof Falcon Pilot



california

The Salt Mine wrote:
I also don't get how that is a 1kson list his supreme command detatchment with all the nurgle stuff is almost 200 more points more than the 1ksons. Isn't your "army" your highest point detatchment in ITC?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL the drama in this T'au vs Admech game just got real.


What happened for those of us that missed it
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Brisbane

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:
I also don't get how that is a 1kson list his supreme command detatchment with all the nurgle stuff is almost 200 more points more than the 1ksons. Isn't your "army" your highest point detatchment in ITC?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL the drama in this T'au vs Admech game just got real.


What happened for those of us that missed it


Someone can probably sum it up better than me for the ones more familiar with House Raven rules but i'll try to get the jist of it.

Ad Mech player got a lucky seize and was stomping the Tau player. Tau player made a mis-move earlier in the game and the Ad Mech wouldn't let him do a re-do.

Later in the game, the Ad Mech player spent 3 command points to make his Castellan's weapons count as assault so he could advance and still shoot. He advanced 1'' to try and get LoS on the Broadsides.

Tau player pointed out he couldn't use that power or something because it was the wrong house. I'm unsure on this part because I don't know their rules well. He was correct so the ad-mech player asked for a re-do, so he could both undo the advance and get his command points back.

Tau player said no, which is fair because he did the same earlier.

Admech player started getting really angry, red faced etc. Judge was called over and said the Castellan advanced so it can't shoot and no re-do but he does get the command points back.

Personally I don't think he should have got the command points back because he had already declared he was using them.

Game was pretty tense for the next 2 turns or so.

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Zande4 wrote:
Pain4Pleasure wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:
I also don't get how that is a 1kson list his supreme command detatchment with all the nurgle stuff is almost 200 more points more than the 1ksons. Isn't your "army" your highest point detatchment in ITC?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
LOL the drama in this T'au vs Admech game just got real.


What happened for those of us that missed it


Someone can probably sum it up better than me for the ones more familiar with House Raven rules but i'll try to get the jist of it.

Ad Mech player got a lucky seize and was stomping the Tau player. Tau player made a mis-move earlier in the game and the Ad Mech wouldn't let him do a re-do.

Later in the game, the Ad Mech player spent 3 command points to make his Castellan's weapons count as assault so he could advance and still shoot. He advanced 1'' to try and get LoS on the Broadsides.

Tau player pointed out he couldn't use that power or something because it was the wrong house. I'm unsure on this part because I don't know their rules well. He was correct so the ad-mech player asked for a re-do, so he could both undo the advance and get his command points back.

Tau player said no, which is fair because he did the same earlier.

Admech player started getting really angry, red faced etc. Judge was called over and said the Castellan advanced so it can't shoot and no re-do but he does get the command points back.

Personally I don't think he should have got the command points back because he had already declared he was using them.

Game was pretty tense for the next 2 turns or so.

As much as it’s nice to see someone who won’t do a take back have karma bite them back I do agree that In that situation he should get his CP back as he couldn’t legally spend them as he wouldn’t have access to the stratagem he spent them on. It’s like a tau player saying “I spend 4CP on vect” the judge rules that he doesn’t have access, thus the stratagem doesn’t go off but at the same time he wouldn’t have spent them. I was unable to watch the game tonight so I’ll have to watch the replay in the morning to see what happened

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 04:51:13


 
   
Made in us
Screaming Shining Spear





USA

Well a couple guys from my area are showing nicely.I think they each have lost only once out of 6 rounds.

So this time last year I read so many articles on the mess that Eldar made of LVO and how the sky was falling. It only took a Big FAQ, some dexes and the Eldar are hated but not the sky falling any more.

This year I do not see anything close to that. I guess the Knight Lists and the loyal 32 are about the only thing even close to that....but it is pale compared to the hate last year.

Any other impressions?

 koooaei wrote:
We are rolling so many dice to have less time to realise that there is not much else to the game other than rolling so many dice.
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







 Daedalus81 wrote:
 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
The GK hero dropped to the 200s with a narrow loss to IG & Smash Captains - no knights.


Where's our Necron legend gone?! :(


58th, which is pretty good for 700ish people.

4th game was narrow loss 27 to 22 to Ynnari. He won his 5th game against Indomitus Crusade.


The Crusade as in the fluffy spend 3 cp on a single unit to make them have an extra attack? Or a RG Castle?

 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




Illinois

Asmodios wrote:

As much as it’s nice to see someone who won’t do a take back have karma bite them back I do agree that In that situation he should get his CP back as he couldn’t legally spend them as he wouldn’t have access to the stratagem he spent them on. It’s like a tau player saying “I spend 4CP on vect” the judge rules that he doesn’t have access, thus the stratagem doesn’t go off but at the same time he wouldn’t have spent them. I was unable to watch the game tonight so I’ll have to watch the replay in the morning to see what happened


He still has access to the strats just doesn't get the household trait. I wonder how many of his first 5 games he did that in.
   
Made in ca
Anointed Dark Priest of Chaos





British Columbia

That Tau Admech game sounds like they tried to advance and shoot (Ravens trait allows this) and then use the ubiquitous shoot way better Raven strategem but if the knight was in an auxiliary detachment they don't benefit from the trait.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
That's what 7th edition is about. Yelling "Forge the Narrative Pussy!" while kicking your opponent in the dick.
 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in ch
Devastating Dark Reaper



Rovaniemi

Standings for the final 8.

The picture is not from me. Source anonymous (4chan), sorry

Spoiler:

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/10 07:55:16


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Why are they crossed out??
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






 admironheart wrote:
Well a couple guys from my area are showing nicely.I think they each have lost only once out of 6 rounds.

So this time last year I read so many articles on the mess that Eldar made of LVO and how the sky was falling. It only took a Big FAQ, some dexes and the Eldar are hated but not the sky falling any more.

This year I do not see anything close to that. I guess the Knight Lists and the loyal 32 are about the only thing even close to that....but it is pale compared to the hate last year.

Any other impressions?

Yea, I have another impression; the meta is basically exactly the same as last year with, to no one's surprise, Imperial Soup (Guard + Castellan) and Ynarri absolutely dominating, again. The only real change is that Ad Mech and Tau are now capable of entering the top 10 no doubt because they had massive reductions on the cost of their units.

Also would you look at that, a pure Space Marine army in the top 10 without bolter rules active. I guess they aren't as bad as the hundreds of pages of posts on here would have you believe.

No Orks in the top ten, not a surprise to me but I know it will be to some of you. Almost like they don't have the tools to compete at the top tables, or something given they enjoy some of the best pilots the game has to offer.

Here's the top ten;

1. Astra Militarum (including Conscripts for all you naysayers), Custodes and Castellan.
2. Ad Mech, Astra Militarum and Castellan.
3. Ynarri list of 7 flyers....
4. Astra Militarum brigade (taking 8 Infantry squads because they are soooo good) and a Castellan.
5. Ynarri list (using Wyches for whoever asked about that earlier).
6. Tau (Riptide wing with a few Kroot thrown in).
7. Astra Militarum (standard) and Knights (Warglaives + Cerastus Lancer).
8. Pure Space Marine list (using a large mixed detachment with tanks, BA and Guilliman).
9. Chaos Demons (mixed gods, mostly Nurgle focus) and TS (obligatory Ahriman supreme command). Lots of points for summoning/deep striking that I can't see (600 or so).
10. Ynarri (Dissie Ravager and Crimson Hunter spam).

Astra Militarum feature in 4 lists of the top ten (and a pure AM list finished 11th for anyone doubting their strength solo).
Knights feature in 4 lists of the top ten.
Ynarri feature in 3 lists of the top ten.
Then you have a Tau list, an SM list and a demon list.

The top 50 (3 joint 48 placings) breakdown is as follows; 22 x Imperium lists, 11 x Aeldari lists, 8 x Chaos Lists, 3 x Tau lists, 3 x Nid/GSC lists, 2 x Orks lists and (wait for it) 1 x NECRON LIST (at position 20)!!!

Almost all of the imperium lists feature AM and IK. Almost all of the Aeldari lists feature Dark Eldar and many take flyers.

I hope GW learn some lessons from this event. The state of the meta is basically as it was last year. They need to look at the main offenders in terms of which units are too efficient for their points. When we keep seeing the same units taken again and again and again in the top lists it should indicate that there are balance issues. That's where we are.

CA helped some of the weaker factions - Nids and Necrons primarily, Tau have always been flirting with the top tables in my opinion. It didn't do enough however to bring those factions in line with those dominating. It didn't do nearly enough to make the most points efficient units balanced against those who received buffs. You can add all the sprinkles to poop you like, it'll still be poop. Why would I eat poop when I can have a Michelin star meal (Castellan + AM, Ynarri Airwing) instead?

And finally, look at those poor Orks. Now can people admit they aren't top tier?
   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




I can't say I'm shocked that Orks aren't winning this event but I do think the meta is a bit better off than last years LVO. Weren't there like 7 space elf lists in the top 10 last year?

Pure space marines is surprising but it does include Gulliman, a model I've gotten in several arguemtns with people for saying he's still easily worth his point cost. Most of the rest of the 'dex is lacking but he certainly is not.

The way I see the above lists is just fix guardsmen points by upping them to 5 and rework the Ynnari implementation (will they even get a codex or is it more likely a WD at this point?). If you do that, then we're great off I think. It's still a decent spread of armies. Soup continues to dominate but GW seem unwilling to tackle that. If they give soup the GSC treatment (halving the CPs) then they're at least giving you the illusion of trying.
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Last year Castellans didn't exist when LVO went ahead did they?
   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




No they didn't. I guess that's why LVO 2018 was "totally" dominated by Ynnari. Then Castellans came along and we got a split of imperium soup and space elf soup. CA has at least added some granularity to the imperium soup elements. With the GSC codex now out I think tyranid soup will become a thing as well.

My point is that we do actually get a decent mix of different armies, it's just the persisting problem of soup allowing the inclusion of those specific way-too-good-for-their-points units in an all too easy way.

I will say that this years LVO has had some interesting armies making it pretty far so the balance isn't as completely lopsided as some will make you believe. It's just that highest tier play that becomes dang near unreachable if you aren't using soup lists.
   
Made in gb
Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential





Can someone enlighten me as to the rough build for that 20th place cron list? Dying to know...
   
Made in ch
Devastating Dark Reaper



Rovaniemi

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Why are they crossed out??

Because they lost round 6.5 and so didn't made it top 8.
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut




 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!

Really? That's great! I'd love to get the details on that.

Presumably their using thr beta bolters rule.


No betta bolters rule is not used. In the moment tournament start using it SM will become scary.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Marin wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!

Really? That's great! I'd love to get the details on that.

Presumably their using thr beta bolters rule.


No betta bolters rule is not used. In the moment tournament start using it SM will become scary.
'scary' is a big word. They are still marine models with bolters. Outside of Deathwatch the bolter rule is nice but not powerful enough to make SM able to content with the top armies.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Between Alpha and Omega, and a little to the left

 Ordana wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!

Really? That's great! I'd love to get the details on that.

Presumably their using thr beta bolters rule.


No betta bolters rule is not used. In the moment tournament start using it SM will become scary.
'scary' is a big word. They are still marine models with bolters. Outside of Deathwatch the bolter rule is nice but not powerful enough to make SM able to content with the top armies.
If a mono space marine list could end up in the top 10 surrounded by soup guard and eldar, I think that counts as contend with top armies

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/10 11:53:34


Want to help support my plastic addiction? I sell stories about humans fighting to survive in a space age frontier.
Lord Harrab wrote:"Gimme back my leg-bone! *wack* Ow, don't hit me with it!" commonly uttered by Guardsman when in close combat with Orks.

Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts.  
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






 Ordana wrote:
Marin wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Mono SM list with 5 tanks still undefeated.
Imp soup without IG or knights, but with 10 termi(!!) still undefeated!

Really? That's great! I'd love to get the details on that.

Presumably their using thr beta bolters rule.


No betta bolters rule is not used. In the moment tournament start using it SM will become scary.
'scary' is a big word. They are still marine models with bolters. Outside of Deathwatch the bolter rule is nice but not powerful enough to make SM able to content with the top armies.

Based on the results of this very tournament it would seem that SM already compete with the top armies without a bolter rule crutch....
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Also would you look at that, a pure Space Marine army in the top 10 without bolter rules active. I guess they aren't as bad as the hundreds of pages of posts on here would have you believe.


Ever has it been thus for the Smurfs. Every Edition the Smurfs will have a build or two that's boring but practical, however most Space Marines players seem to want to run cool characterful stuff instead. The latter fails to impress, so they come to Dakka and make a thread about how Smurfs suck and how the Codex should change to accomodate the units they want to play.

No Orks in the top ten, not a surprise to me but I know it will be to some of you. Almost like they don't have the tools to compete at the top tables, or something given they enjoy some of the best pilots the game has to offer.


Again, no change here. Orks have always been the noobhammer that'll wreck you the first time you play against them, then never beat you again. The last time they were actually competetive was 4th Edition, IIRC.

And finally, look at those poor Orks. Now can people admit they aren't top tier?


History teaches us that the answer is "no". People have been insisting loudly that Orks are a super competetive God-Tier army since 5th Edition without any evidence to support that belief. They won't stop now.

All that said, there's a much wider spread of factions at the top end of the rankings than you used to get. Sure, Ynnari, Guard and Castellans are clearly dominating, but I don't recall a GT top ten having five different factions in it for quite a while. Progress?

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