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 Arachnofiend wrote:
Dude, do you even play Chaos? Mark of Tzeentch doesn't make you a psyker, it just gives you the keyword. All of those HQ's would need completely new datasheets to turn them into sorcerers. And I'm actually offended by the idea of the rubric being randomly reversed just so Thousand Sons can take raptors. Play a different legion if you don't actually want to play the Thousand Sons.

Yeah, I know it doesn't, I'm saying it should. Marks doing nothing is utter gak.

Also, Raptors are just regular dudes my dude.

Warp Talons are the weird ones, or keep them dust and let the warp taint them, do some funky gak, get weird with them, I don't want to play the thousand sons, don't worry I never have lol.

Or restrict those units. No possessed/oblits/muties/warp talons.

Idc either way, but they still are fine folded into the main codex with just a few units lost.

I know the difference between a Raptor and a Warp Talon, it doesn't really matter for the purposes of this conversation. It's clear at this point that representing the Thousand Sons in a way that anyone who actually likes the legion would be satisfied with isn't a priority for you, though.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I know the difference between a Raptor and a Warp Talon, it doesn't really matter for the purposes of this conversation. It's clear at this point that representing the Thousand Sons in a way that anyone who actually likes the legion would be satisfied with isn't a priority for you, though.

Really? I fail to see what you lose, this is what I'm proposing:

Mark of Tzeentch: Gives pysker rules in the same way you have them now to units
Thousand Sons Traits: Gives units access to the Thousand Sons weaponry, and the trait can give the pysker buff and the 'All is dust' rule to units. (Yes, stronger subfaction traits to make legions more unique)

Special units like Ahirman/Magnus can stay, Rubric marines can be made out of regular marines. What do you lose? What is a lynchpin here that you lose that can't be solved through X little thing?

Representing the legion in it's own unique way is important to me for every legion, but if you start giving every legion unique units, which they should have the ability to make through unique wargear, why do some get codices and some don't?

 Sir Heckington wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Dude, do you even play Chaos? Mark of Tzeentch doesn't make you a psyker, it just gives you the keyword. All of those HQ's would need completely new datasheets to turn them into sorcerers. And I'm actually offended by the idea of the rubric being randomly reversed just so Thousand Sons can take raptors. Play a different legion if you don't actually want to play the Thousand Sons.

Yeah, I know it doesn't, I'm saying it should. Marks doing nothing is utter gak.

Also, Raptors are just regular dudes my dude.

Warp Talons are the weird ones, or keep them dust and let the warp taint them, do some funky gak, get weird with them, I don't want to play the thousand sons, don't worry I never have lol.

Or restrict those units. No possessed/oblits/muties/warp talons.

Idc either way, but they still are fine folded into the main codex with just a few units lost.

Seemingly you do play traitor guard, would you be comfy with them being rolled into the standard guard dex as a regiment that loses access to anything overly imperial? Arguably that's still more than they have now but it's still a lazy cop out method of doing it.

 Jidmah wrote:

So define "vanilla stuff" please. It is obvious to anyone that has touched the T.Sons book that it's half baked. They simply did not have enough kits to make a new existing army. Deathguard had all the new funky stuff, plaguecrawlers and foetid drones and different flavors of terminators and sloppity slibbity pox-something-caster-haulers etc etc etc. T.Sons had the exalted sorcerer kit, the rubrics and the scarabs. Period. That was obviously not enough, so instead of coming up with actual kits for the army, they decided to import some AoS stuff and suddenly change the lore of the whole army (POW SPACE GOATS! Howabboutthat?). Then they discovered that -obviously- this was still not enough to make a codex. Then the obvious solution was to add a bunch of generic vanilla CSM stuff just to fill the datasheet requirements, with zero synergy with the army tactics, units that really feel off and weird when you place them next to your psykers. So if GW are able to do such a mess of a half baked half assed codex, where literally more than half of the entries ARE from vanilla CSM, I trust in them that they can continue to do half assed solution and give the codex an actual treatment.

People are very preoccupied with how Ahriman appears in every list to notice the complete non-existent content of the rest of the codex.

Huh, does Death Guard really have that much more than TS?
Let's check:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Sons already have access to:

Cultists
Rhinos
Vindicators
Predators
Land Raiders
Hellbrutes
Helldrakes
Defiler
Maulerfiend
Forgefiend
Chaos Spawns (Spawns. In a Rubric codex. SPAWNS).

I'll skip daemon princes and sorcerers since everyone has those

Death Guard has:
Chaos Lord
Terminator Lord
Cultists
Rhino
Helbrute
Possessed
Chaos Spawn
Landraider
Predator
Defiler

So for vanilla options, TS get 14 over the DG's 13, one more vanilla option.

In contrast, the "Thousand Sons unique" units in the codex are:
Exalted Sorcerer
Rubrics
Scarab Occult
Tzaangors
Shaman
Tzaangor Enlightened
Mutalith Vortex Beast

You forgot Magnus and Ahriman.

DG has:
Lord of Contagion
Malignant Plaguecaster
Typhus
Plague Marines
Pox Walkers
Blightlord Terminators
Deathshroud Terminators
Biologous Putrefier
Foul Blightspawn
Plague Surgeon
Noxious Blightbringer
Tallyman
Foetid Bloat-drone
Myphitic Blight-Haulers
Plagueburst Crawler
Mortarion

So TS get 9 vs Death Guard's 16, for a total of 23 datasheets for Thousand Sons and 29 for Death Guard. You do have three times as many psychic powers though, so it kind of evens out.

From a purely thematic background, TS should not be getting greater possessed or lord discordant since they have neither possessed nor warp smiths. Anything else is up for interpretation though.

My point was not between TS and DG, even though every single entry of unique deathguard kits and rules were made FOR Deathguard and deathguard alone, while from the 9 unique thousand sons kits 4 of them are imports from AoS (little bit like having to wear your older brother's clothes yet still your mom says it's yours now). So in reality it's 16 entries vs 5. and no amount of psychic powers evens anything out.

In fact both DG and TS were made with half baked assets. My point is, since GW obviously didn't have any problem adding generic bull before just to fill the pages, what is it that stops them from doing it now with new kits that could actually improve the Cult Codexes for a change?

Dudeface wrote:

 Sir Heckington wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Dude, do you even play Chaos? Mark of Tzeentch doesn't make you a psyker, it just gives you the keyword. All of those HQ's would need completely new datasheets to turn them into sorcerers. And I'm actually offended by the idea of the rubric being randomly reversed just so Thousand Sons can take raptors. Play a different legion if you don't actually want to play the Thousand Sons.

Yeah, I know it doesn't, I'm saying it should. Marks doing nothing is utter gak.

Also, Raptors are just regular dudes my dude.

Warp Talons are the weird ones, or keep them dust and let the warp taint them, do some funky gak, get weird with them, I don't want to play the thousand sons, don't worry I never have lol.

Or restrict those units. No possessed/oblits/muties/warp talons.

Idc either way, but they still are fine folded into the main codex with just a few units lost.

Seemingly you do play traitor guard, would you be comfy with them being rolled into the standard guard dex as a regiment that loses access to anything overly imperial? Arguably that's still more than they have now but it's still a lazy cop out method of doing it.

That could work, but there a few unique things that have to be added. If we were to go with much more unique subfaction options, both are possible solutions, and I'd take either. I think the difference is the traitor guard are a much more over arching faction and so there is a lot more there to represent. Assuming it was built similar to how I've outlined the legion rules, with unique wargear and units given and probably a 'covenant' rule, I'd take it.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Sir Heckington wrote:
Mark of Tzeentch/Thousand Sons trait, whichever suits your fancy. Mark of Tzeentch works better probably for that option. Or maybe give some more fluff on what oblits an be, or restrit em, that's what, 1 unit out of a codex? 2 if you go with possessed?

Let's count them out! All of the following units in Codex: Heretic Astartes would have been reduced to dust by the Rubric of Ahriman:

Chaos Lord
Dark Apostle
Master of Executions
Warpsmith
Exalted Champion
Lord Discordant
Chaos Space Marines
Chosen
Chaos Terminators
Possessed
Mutilators
Chaos Bikers
Chaos Raptors
Warp Talons
Obliterators
Havocs

All of these units are not in the Thousand Sons codex for the very understandable reason of "not existing post-Rubric". I sure hope you feel the same way about the loyalist marine codexes as you do the Thousand Sons, because if any legion needs its own codex its the sons of Magnus.

We shouldn't have access to helbrutes either by that logic but we do. All the Rubric did was turn the flesh to dust. It didn't take away the marines ability to use weapons and gear it was trained to use. So Chosen, Bikers, Raptors, warpsmiths, and Havocs should all be valid choices in a 1ksons codex. Change the legion trait to all is dust. As far as possessed and obliterators if we have access to the stupid fething helbrute then we should have access to those as well for the same reasons. We lure other space marines in with candy and warp feth them into whatever we want. I have also never read one thing of fluff that mentions 1ksons using daemon engines in any of the novels. Yet some how without warpsmiths we have all the daemon engines from the original CSM Codex. If 1ksons were always their own codex and never had access to any of this stuff this would be a different conversation. However, they were not and many of us have hundreds of $$ in models that we can't take unless we ally. Guess what not everyone gets to play with allies. Some events don't let you. Now I also have to dedicate an entire detachment to something that I used to be able to just pay the points for a unit. All in all fluff is a stupid metric to measure why something can't be taken. The fluff can be altered look at the stupid helbrute for example A. God I hate that stupid helbrute.

Bleh

topaxygouroun i wrote:
My point was not between TS and DG, even though every single entry of unique deathguard kits and rules were made FOR Deathguard and deathguard alone, while from the 9 unique thousand sons kits 4 of them are imports from AoS (little bit like having to wear your older brother's clothes yet still your mom says it's yours now).

I'm not a fan of those AoS models or their fluff either, so I'm with you in that regard. However, if you want everything CSM have and don't like the stuff TS have... just play CSM? Everything you like about Thousand Sons fits into a single supreme command detachment.
Also note that seven of the Death Guard's unique datasheets are characters (not counting Typhus and Mortarion), with some of them just being variants of things CSM have. In older editions these would been sold as single retinue-style unit.

So in reality it's 16 entries vs 5. and no amount of psychic powers evens anything out.

So, in reality there is no daemons codex?

In fact both DG and TS were made with half baked assets. My point is, since GW obviously didn't have any problem adding generic bull before just to fill the pages, what is it that stops them from doing it now with new kits that could actually improve the Cult Codexes for a change?

I don't think Death Guard is half-baked, quite the opposite. It's and army that feels unique and plays much like Death Guard are represented in fluff and novels. Of course, there is room for improvement, but considering how early the codex dropped this edition, it was done very well.

For me it was the lack of one or two specialists detachments. The Death Guard were one of the first Codes out for 8th edition. We are lacking in an array of stratagems and could have used a couple of detachments to kinda boost some less desirable units. I’m fine without the added havocs or new Daemon Engines. Unless, the Death Guard weren’t on Vigilus to begin with then I understand.

I think it's not unreasonable to add a few things back to Death Guard and Thousand Sons, selectively.

Thousand Sons:
Master of Possession - seriously, new psychic discipline and the Thousand Sons aren't on top of it?
Possessed
Mutilators
Obliterators
Warp talons
Venomcrawler

Death Guard:
Master of Possession
Lord Discordant/Warpsmith
Mutilators
Obliterators
Venomcrawler - they have all the crawlers except this one?
Dark Apostle
Master of Executions - how do the Death Guard not have a Master of Executions?

Dark Apostle, Master of Executions, Lord Discordant don't really work for Thousand Sons unless they are psykers. Death Guard seem opposed to fast/flying units (not counting Index leftovers), but they could certainly use some techmarines types.

The Tallyman is basically the Death Guard variant of Dark Apostles.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
I think it's not unreasonable to add a few things back to Death Guard and Thousand Sons, selectively.

Thousand Sons:
Master of Possession - seriously, new psychic discipline and the Thousand Sons aren't on top of it?
Possessed
Mutilators
Obliterators
Warp talons
Venomcrawler

Death Guard:
Master of Possession
Lord Discordant/Warpsmith
Mutilators
Obliterators
Venomcrawler - they have all the crawlers except this one?
Dark Apostle
Master of Executions - how do the Death Guard not have a Master of Executions?

Dark Apostle, Master of Executions, Lord Discordant don't really work for Thousand Sons unless they are psykers. Death Guard seem opposed to fast/flying units (not counting Index leftovers), but they could certainly use some techmarines types.

Again though, Thousand Sons don't have possessed thanks to not having bodies to possess, so that entire list fails apart form the venomcrawler which is fair but at the same time they deserve a unique unit rather than a copy/pasta unit.

More of an argument for Death Guard but many of those units don't fit thematically is the only reason. Chaos players should be rejoicing on having multiple defined and unique books, make them more different with releases, don't try to tie them back together.

I would sell my soul for a better army trait for Thousand Sons. I mean, look around. alaitoc, Ynnari, the new stuff like red corsairs. Then Sons: "Spells +6" range. 3 of your models are now buffed. Thanks for playing."

I would welcome the entry of Rubric havoks or rubric chosen with a global stat change along the lines of "-1 movement, 5++, improve bolt weapons ap by 1."

but alas, GW wants me to obviously soup, well then I'll soup.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
I would sell my soul for a better army trait for Thousand Sons. I mean, look around. alaitoc, Ynnari, the new stuff like red corsairs. Then Sons: "Spells +6" range. 3 of your models are now buffed. Thanks for playing."

I would welcome the entry of Rubric havoks or rubric chosen with a global stat change along the lines of "-1 movement, 5++, improve bolt weapons ap by 1."

but alas, GW wants me to obviously soup, well then I'll soup.

6" is really really solid when it comes to things like death hex or avoiding anti-psykers or denies. I'd just like beta bolters to apply even when rubrics move. Then we're sorted until GW comes back around again to add units.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
6" is really really solid when it comes to things like death hex or avoiding anti-psykers or denies. I'd just like beta bolters to apply even when rubrics move. Then we're sorted until GW comes back around again to add units.

Agreed, I was not a fan of this trait initially, but it's kind of amazing what that 6" accomplishes.

9" range Warptime, amazing.
18" range Death Hex, amazing.
24" range Bolt of Change, perhaps not assassin ranges, but still very useful.

The list goes on, then throw in their unmatched discipline access, yeah, I have no complaints about the Legion trait.

Late to the party.. but I have acquired the Oblits and Venomdude from SS and intend to paint them and run them with my Death Guard.. for fun and for home use.

Not a tournament player, so I think things will work fine in my GameRoom League..

According to army list in the fluff part of Vigilus Ablaze, Death Guard were the second largest chaos faction there, only Black Legion brought more troops. Still nothing for them anywhere in the book besides that.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
6" is really really solid when it comes to things like death hex or avoiding anti-psykers or denies. I'd just like beta bolters to apply even when rubrics move. Then we're sorted until GW comes back around again to add units.

Agreed, I was not a fan of this trait initially, but it's kind of amazing what that 6" accomplishes.

9" range Warptime, amazing.
18" range Death Hex, amazing.
24" range Bolt of Change, perhaps not assassin ranges, but still very useful.

The list goes on, then throw in their unmatched discipline access, yeah, I have no complaints about the Legion trait.

Well, I do.
Sure, its a cool ability that makes our psykers better, and the fact you can smite-spam without increasing warp charges is great...

But the effect is that our codex is reduced to HQs only and nothing else matters-because the rest of the codex DOES NOT CARE about the legion trait.
Rubrics and scarabs do not pack spells that really care for range (actually, they hardly pack spells worth a damn anyway, explained below)
Tzaangors and vortax beasts-our "unique units" (who are lousy AoS ports), are literally not effected, and thus can be in a generic tzeentch detachment and be mechanically identical.
The is the -only- legion trait that does nothing at all for both cultists and helbrutes, meaning that despite having them, having either as TS is just silly.

Heck, even "having many spells" is not a thing, because we don't actually have more spells than others.
CSM, codex marines and DG all have 2 disciplines available. (daemons technically has 3, but they are a unique case)
Sure, we have "3", but two of them are shared with other armies (DH with CSM and Tzeentch with daemons)

And our "unique" discipline? its amazingly bad.
Weaver of fate is ALSO shared with CSM, so its actually just 5 unique spells.
Firestorm is by far the weakest "witchfire" in the game. it does not even compare favorably to a mini-smite.
Doombolt is the only warp charge 9 in the game, and not nearly strong enough to justify it. this spell should be a 7.
Temporal manipulation-nurgle daemons got the same spell, at longer range and lower WC.
Glamour of Tzeentch-death guard, nurgle daemons, slaanesh daemons and craftwolds ALL got this spell a longer range and lower WC. clowns got an identical spell.
Boon of mutation, a buff for chars only, that is random as hell, and cant even target most of our chars. (the ONLY legal target are foot sorcerer/exalted)

Seriously, why does the "god of magic" has the worst spells!? is this some kind of joke?

I play TS because I love TS lore.
But it sucks knowing that I'm shootiny myself in the foot by doing so, as not only I deny myself a whole host of CSM units and choices for only a handful, the little I get in return is amazingly bad.
And vigilus just pushed the barrier further with giving CSM even more toys and units, while leaving TS further in the dust.

Firestorm isn't that bad. At least is has a range longer then 3". doombolt does have warp charge level, but when it does hit at least it doesn't hit your own dudes.

Maybe GW thinks it is funny to make GoM spells bad. No one other then the person that wrote the rules knows.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Heck, even "having many spells" is not a thing, because we don't actually have more spells than others.
CSM, codex marines and DG all have 2 disciplines available. (daemons technically has 3, but they are a unique case)
Sure, we have "3", but two of them are shared with other armies (DH with CSM and Tzeentch with daemons)

Death Guard has exactly one discipline.

 Jidmah wrote:
According to army list in the fluff part of Vigilus Ablaze, Death Guard were the second largest chaos faction there, only Black Legion brought more troops. Still nothing for them anywhere in the book besides that.

Iron Hands deployed more Marines to Vigilus than the Crimson Fists and Ultramarines combined. No rules for them either, aside from the catch-all Indomitus Crusaders detachment.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
According to army list in the fluff part of Vigilus Ablaze, Death Guard were the second largest chaos faction there, only Black Legion brought more troops. Still nothing for them anywhere in the book besides that.

Iron Hands deployed more Marines to Vigilus than the Crimson Fists and Ultramarines combined. No rules for them either, aside from the catch-all Indomitus Crusaders detachment.

That's one more than Death Guard gets.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
According to army list in the fluff part of Vigilus Ablaze, Death Guard were the second largest chaos faction there, only Black Legion brought more troops. Still nothing for them anywhere in the book besides that.

Iron Hands deployed more Marines to Vigilus than the Crimson Fists and Ultramarines combined. No rules for them either, aside from the catch-all Indomitus Crusaders detachment.

That's one more than Death Guard gets.

You have a full codex with characters, unique units, and whatnot. Iron Hands don't.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
According to army list in the fluff part of Vigilus Ablaze, Death Guard were the second largest chaos faction there, only Black Legion brought more troops. Still nothing for them anywhere in the book besides that.

Iron Hands deployed more Marines to Vigilus than the Crimson Fists and Ultramarines combined. No rules for them either, aside from the catch-all Indomitus Crusaders detachment.

That's one more than Death Guard gets.

You have a full codex with characters, unique units, and whatnot. Iron Hands don't.

Are you seriously complaining over getting three times the options of Death Guard has just because you want to have an option for yourself?

I'm just pissed off Death Guard Terminators forgot how to punch, because I spent a fortune on the lovely Grave Warden FW models, painted them up reeeeaaallly nice, and then was gifted with the GeeDerps Approach To Feth You Zerosignal.

XD

(Edit: also Oblits, Bikers, Heldrakes, Havocs... was a very sad time for me).

 BoomWolf wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
6" is really really solid when it comes to things like death hex or avoiding anti-psykers or denies. I'd just like beta bolters to apply even when rubrics move. Then we're sorted until GW comes back around again to add units.

Agreed, I was not a fan of this trait initially, but it's kind of amazing what that 6" accomplishes.

9" range Warptime, amazing.
18" range Death Hex, amazing.
24" range Bolt of Change, perhaps not assassin ranges, but still very useful.

The list goes on, then throw in their unmatched discipline access, yeah, I have no complaints about the Legion trait.

Well, I do.
Sure, its a cool ability that makes our psykers better, and the fact you can smite-spam without increasing warp charges is great...

But the effect is that our codex is reduced to HQs only and nothing else matters-because the rest of the codex DOES NOT CARE about the legion trait.
Rubrics and scarabs do not pack spells that really care for range (actually, they hardly pack spells worth a damn anyway, explained below)
Tzaangors and vortax beasts-our "unique units" (who are lousy AoS ports), are literally not effected, and thus can be in a generic tzeentch detachment and be mechanically identical.
The is the -only- legion trait that does nothing at all for both cultists and helbrutes, meaning that despite having them, having either as TS is just silly.

Heck, even "having many spells" is not a thing, because we don't actually have more spells than others.
CSM, codex marines and DG all have 2 disciplines available. (daemons technically has 3, but they are a unique case)
Sure, we have "3", but two of them are shared with other armies (DH with CSM and Tzeentch with daemons)

And our "unique" discipline? its amazingly bad.
Weaver of fate is ALSO shared with CSM, so its actually just 5 unique spells.
Firestorm is by far the weakest "witchfire" in the game. it does not even compare favorably to a mini-smite.
Doombolt is the only warp charge 9 in the game, and not nearly strong enough to justify it. this spell should be a 7.
Temporal manipulation-nurgle daemons got the same spell, at longer range and lower WC.
Glamour of Tzeentch-death guard, nurgle daemons, slaanesh daemons and craftwolds ALL got this spell a longer range and lower WC. clowns got an identical spell.
Boon of mutation, a buff for chars only, that is random as hell, and cant even target most of our chars. (the ONLY legal target are foot sorcerer/exalted)

Seriously, why does the "god of magic" has the worst spells!? is this some kind of joke?

I play TS because I love TS lore.
But it sucks knowing that I'm shootiny myself in the foot by doing so, as not only I deny myself a whole host of CSM units and choices for only a handful, the little I get in return is amazingly bad.
And vigilus just pushed the barrier further with giving CSM even more toys and units, while leaving TS further in the dust.

how about this as a legion trait for thousand sons (it's not even new, we had it last edition): "Whenever a T.Sons unit is the target of a successful spell cast, improve its invuln save by 1 to a maximum of 4++ (or 3++ for Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult units)." Now you can spread around the buffs to your units and get a 4++, which isn't even that amazeballs these days, and you can have one unit with a 3++ with weaver of fates. Then perhaps up the casting cost of weaver of fates to a 8+ and you're set. Here you are, perfectly playable Thousand Sons armies that are not only HQs, that give incentives to play actual units AND further incentives to add rubric marines or scarab occults in the mix rather than going mono-goats.

But I would guess that would be too much.

The problem with GW is that half of the time they seem to think that 5++ is not worth anything and they give it happily around for free , yet some other times they think it's an amazing defensive buff and it somehow justifies 31 pt terminators. Then they seem to think that 3++ is a big nono and nobody should get it, except some units that definitely should get it.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, I do.
Sure, its a cool ability that makes our psykers better, and the fact you can smite-spam without increasing warp charges is great...

But the effect is that our codex is reduced to HQs only and nothing else matters-because the rest of the codex DOES NOT CARE about the legion trait.
Rubrics and scarabs do not pack spells that really care for range (actually, they hardly pack spells worth a damn anyway, explained below)
Tzaangors and vortax beasts-our "unique units" (who are lousy AoS ports), are literally not effected, and thus can be in a generic tzeentch detachment and be mechanically identical.
The is the -only- legion trait that does nothing at all for both cultists and helbrutes, meaning that despite having them, having either as TS is just silly.

Heck, even "having many spells" is not a thing, because we don't actually have more spells than others.
CSM, codex marines and DG all have 2 disciplines available. (daemons technically has 3, but they are a unique case)
Sure, we have "3", but two of them are shared with other armies (DH with CSM and Tzeentch with daemons)

And our "unique" discipline? its amazingly bad.
Weaver of fate is ALSO shared with CSM, so its actually just 5 unique spells.
Firestorm is by far the weakest "witchfire" in the game. it does not even compare favorably to a mini-smite.
Doombolt is the only warp charge 9 in the game, and not nearly strong enough to justify it. this spell should be a 7.
Temporal manipulation-nurgle daemons got the same spell, at longer range and lower WC.
Glamour of Tzeentch-death guard, nurgle daemons, slaanesh daemons and craftwolds ALL got this spell a longer range and lower WC. clowns got an identical spell.
Boon of mutation, a buff for chars only, that is random as hell, and cant even target most of our chars. (the ONLY legal target are foot sorcerer/exalted)

Seriously, why does the "god of magic" has the worst spells!? is this some kind of joke?

I play TS because I love TS lore.
But it sucks knowing that I'm shootiny myself in the foot by doing so, as not only I deny myself a whole host of CSM units and choices for only a handful, the little I get in return is amazingly bad.
And vigilus just pushed the barrier further with giving CSM even more toys and units, while leaving TS further in the dust.

I should clarify, as I have given the mistaken impression that the Codex on whole is good, it is not. It is perhaps the laziest, most hackneyed copy-paste job this side of Grey Knights. It is horrible.

However, I find their psykers to be very useful in small detachments. So in that regard, you are absolutely correct, the codex is basically a couple hundred pages of fluff and a few decent HQ units, the rest of it is done better by other codices and is severely lacking in the tools necessary to be a truly standalone army.

I mean this is 8th edition, soup and allies are a thing.

I want havocs in my Death Guard army, Obliterators maybe too, so I'll just paint them up as "The Purge" with that fancy new detachment/stratagem and the damn near free rerolls. They will look like a nurgle alligned army and fit my current Death Guards.

Seems win win for me.

DudleyGrim wrote:
I mean this is 8th edition, soup and allies are a thing.

I want havocs in my Death Guard army, Obliterators maybe too, so I'll just paint them up as "The Purge" with that fancy new detachment/stratagem and the damn near free rerolls. They will look like a nurgle alligned army and fit my current Death Guards.

Seems win win for me.

This is exactly what I plan on doing. The Purge IMO have one of the best traits for CSM now