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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wasn't it already established though that the rest of the tech priests don't like Cawl, and are only playing along because he has the sponsorship of a Primarch? I mean, if one of the Emperor's sons tell you to jump, you better jump.


And to be fair, even Gulliman doesn't like him, he's just useful and in a way actually did his job, which is leagues better than the rest of the imperium. The guy's so universally reviled I feel completely comfortable making a primaris sons of malice chapter with the background joke of Cawl responding with "Who hasn't" when confronted over making an entire new chapter of marines that were declared traitors for ritualistically cannibalizing an inquisitor. He's as grimdark as most anything in the setting.

Meanwhile Gulliman is a walking hypocrite who despises the church, but leverages, hates xenos but owes his life to the eldar and gets dicked around by the forces of chaos more or less constantly, only succeeding by expending nearly irreplaceable relic weaponry. Aka, 40k as usual just with an extra tallboy.
   
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Throne world 11001001

The whole hopeful thing can be turned around with a few clicks on a keyboard. Chaos has been the big baddie and now they're being resisted effectively, the 'nids are having trouble with the rift, eldar have some hope to avoid she who thirsts, fine.

The necrons could have a sudden resurgence when GW decides to pump them up with new releases. The necrons could become a huge menace as they rise in vast numbers and new necron units are awakened. (How about some new type scarabs like shield scarabs, guard scarabs , etc)

Or the emperor could croak when his golden throne conks out.

An evil primarch could rise.

The 2 "lost" primarchs could return and boy, are they pissed!

Anything could happen to dim the sudden light of hope in the 40k universe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/11 01:45:27


 
   
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 Andersp90 wrote:
So the first primarch has returned, and more are probably coming. The aeldari have received a possible "get-out-of-jail-free" card in the form of Ynnead, and the tyranid threat has been diminished by the the great rift.

Put short, there is hope.

But what do you think of this change in the setting? Good, bad?
Unfortunately, this thread is already tl;dr, so I apologize if I'm just repeating the sentiments of others.

Before the events of Dark Imperium, I would have placed myself firmly in the, "40k is a setting, not a story," and "progression is bad" camp, but for me, how they've gone about it has largely been positive. Sure, the Primarchs have lost some mystery due to being actual, real, killable models on the tabletop, but on the other hand, Morty and Magnus are such beautiful models (the less said about that horrendous Guilliman model, the better) that I can kind of forgive this. Also, they haven't yet broken my pet peeve of bringing dead characters back to life, so the fluff hasn't been too offended.

The return of Ynnead certainly seems to be lacking in any kind of downside, though I'm not hugely familiar with Eldar lore, so feel free to correct me on that point. However, as far as I'm aware, Ynnead only gives their followers the ability to die without their souls being Slaanesh's lunch. Living on the other hand, is likely just as challenging in the 42nd millennium as it was in the 41st.

I wasn't aware that the Tyranid threat had been diminished by the Rift, but in a way, it kind of makes sense that it would. It was always a problem for me that 40k always tried to present Chaos as the arch nemesis of human kind by having them largely relegated to their little patch within the Eye, and yet here we have the Tyranids in all likelihood surrounding the entire galaxy! For me the Rift addresses that balance in a really great way.

Is there more hope now than before? Sure. But I don't see any recent developments leading me to believe that the galaxy is about to become all sunshine and happiness any time soon.
   
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It was a mistake. The overwhelming grimdark, the lack of hope, yet people still resisting it to fight on for what they believed in - that was what made 40K tick. But, see, the more GW move away from that, the closer they get to just generic sci-fi.

When you start rooting for space marines as "the good guys", and that part about them being super space nazis gets quietly swept under the rug - that's when 40K loses its identity and becomes utterly forgettable. Generic. Mediocre.

It's never had great writing, but at least it was memorable beforehand. You want to play in the brighter galaxy sandbox, you've got to compete with Star Wars, Halo, hell even Star Trek. There's a comparison I never thought I'd be making.

And it really sucks that 40K is moving to this brighter setting because it's something that couldn't really be imitated. I'm sure many will try when 40K goes full Hasbro, but it won't be the same, will it?

As an addendum, introducing the 42nd millennium as a true sequel would have been a far better move, signalling a transition from the grim darkness to the brighter future. But expecting GW to handle something with finesse is a bit like expecting civilised political conversation. Real fecking unlikely.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/12 13:34:37


Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
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I want emperor to die and humans to learn real space travel.
   
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Martel732 wrote:
I want emperor to die and humans to learn real space travel.


I dunno there's something special when your faster than light travel is basically smashing a great big hole in reality and flying through a quite literal Hell whilst beset on all sides by demons and worse, protected only by a shield before you blast out the other end (if you're lucky).

Next to that warp drive is just kinda, well, its too safe and boring!!


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on the forum. Obviously

The only race who should have non-warp FTL are necrons. And they got that from literal gods of reality, who can bend (although not break) the laws of physics in creative ways.

I still maintain that the Dolmen gates is a crap idea that was cooked up by someone who didn't actually read the 3rd necron lore and only read the part about torch-ships and not the part about the C'tan giving them really fast ships, which was later detailed in Battlefleet Gothic.

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A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
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Right behind you.

If people think that a literal hole in reality coming into being is somehow indicative of a "lighter" 40k setting, they don't really have any room to discuss the background period.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
If people think that a literal hole in reality coming into being is somehow indicative of a "lighter" 40k setting, they don't really have any room to discuss the background period.


Entirely depends on what that hole in reality does. As it stands, it's not really much more than an Eye of Terror 2.0, but without any of the background. Eye of Terror diet, really.

Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice. 
   
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Primaris were a terrible decision, and their kneepads look universally awful.


Everything else is really cool though. Hyped to see where the universe goes, my only complaint is that it's still moving too slowly.

P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it. 
   
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Right behind you.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
If people think that a literal hole in reality coming into being is somehow indicative of a "lighter" 40k setting, they don't really have any room to discuss the background period.


Entirely depends on what that hole in reality does. As it stands, it's not really much more than an Eye of Terror 2.0, but without any of the background. Eye of Terror diet, really.

Try reading some of the fluff then. "Vigilus Defiant" talks about the effects of the rift for example.
   
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 Overread wrote:
Spoiler:
Martel732 wrote:
I want emperor to die and humans to learn real space travel.


I dunno there's something special when your faster than light travel is basically smashing a great big hole in reality and flying through a quite literal Hell whilst beset on all sides by demons and worse, protected only by a shield before you blast out the other end (if you're lucky).

Next to that warp drive is just kinda, well, its too safe and boring!!



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 Kanluwen wrote:
 liquidjoshi wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
If people think that a literal hole in reality coming into being is somehow indicative of a "lighter" 40k setting, they don't really have any room to discuss the background period.


Entirely depends on what that hole in reality does. As it stands, it's not really much more than an Eye of Terror 2.0, but without any of the background. Eye of Terror diet, really.

Try reading some of the fluff then. "Vigilus Defiant" talks about the effects of the rift for example.


agreed, the idea that the setting is somehow "Brighter" now is bffling, yeah we've got Gulliman and primaris Marines. but Chaos has upped their game too. read the fluff carefully. it's clear things are NOT alright. you have signs of chaos kingdoms forming in Imperium Nihlas for instance.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
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The warp is a stupid deus ex machina. Making the warp irrelevant would be my primary technical goal.
   
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Martel732 wrote:
The warp is a stupid deus ex machina. Making the warp irrelevant would be my primary technical goal.


So play Necrons

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
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Martel732 wrote:
The warp is a stupid deus ex machina. Making the warp irrelevant would be my primary technical goal.


I think what you may be looking for is standard Science fiction.

this is science fantasy. the warp is basically the only thing keeping 40k from being another generic sci fi setting.




 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Err, the Warp isn't a deus ex machina,

A Deus Ex Machina is "an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel."

The Warp isn't unexpected, it's an every day aspect of life (that reasonable people fear, even chaos worshipers).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/12 17:53:58


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Martel732 wrote:
The warp is a stupid deus ex machina. Making the warp irrelevant would be my primary technical goal.


Gotta disagree. The Warp is one of the few things keeping the setting grim dark - though I think you'll have your way given enough time. All that hell and demon stuff doesn't really sell well to parents

Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice. 
   
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 SHUPPET wrote:
Primaris were a terrible decision, and their kneepads look universally awful.


Not if you paint them like a smiley face with a rainbow 'fro.

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Right behind you.

BrianDavion wrote:

agreed, the idea that the setting is somehow "Brighter" now is bffling, yeah we've got Gulliman and primaris Marines. but Chaos has upped their game too. read the fluff carefully. it's clear things are NOT alright. you have signs of chaos kingdoms forming in Imperium Nihlas for instance.

Apparently it's not okay for there to be "hope" on the Imperial side of things. That's why people think this is some 'lighter' 40k setting.

Typical nonsense. Can't wait to see what comes of "The Great Work" novel this year.
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

agreed, the idea that the setting is somehow "Brighter" now is bffling, yeah we've got Gulliman and primaris Marines. but Chaos has upped their game too. read the fluff carefully. it's clear things are NOT alright. you have signs of chaos kingdoms forming in Imperium Nihlas for instance.

Apparently it's not okay for there to be "hope" on the Imperial side of things. That's why people think this is some 'lighter' 40k setting.

Typical nonsense. Can't wait to see what comes of "The Great Work" novel this year.


The brighter the hope, the darker and larger the grim dark gets.

its pretty classical stuff.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in pl
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No, the worse is when you know there is no hope, but your still going to live for anywhere between 20 to 40 years. Like when you burst your diafragma durning sports or lifting, and end up with a broken spine. Your 17-19, and your life just ended, you will achive nothing, but you are going to live at least as long as your parents going to be able to take care of you. Worse thing you can't even kill yourself. I know, because I have a person like that in my family that is 71 now, that got polio in the 50s.

No idea how much britghter 8th ed lore is comparing to last one. But what bothers me, aside for inconsitancy between books. Are the deux ex machinas. BA are almost done, suddenly Gulliman arrives reaps tyranids a new one with his khorn ally, with no problem. Abadon is killing Calgar, here comes cyclotronic torpedos that blow up his ship, and he has to go back, but that was his plan all along and he didn't want to kill Calgar in the first place.



   
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 SHUPPET wrote:
Primaris were a terrible decision, and their kneepads look universally awful.


Everything else is really cool though. Hyped to see where the universe goes, my only complaint is that it's still moving too slowly.

Their armor looks great, the kneepads keep shrapnel on the ground from flying up into their face or rounds deflecting off the knees and into the groin. My only complaint is that they should have beakies and the knee should have an enclosed joint while keeping the projecting flange. The issue with their implementation is more that GW hasn't committed to anything resulting in a mediocre middling point that pleases nobody. I just wish they'd 1:1 replace space marines entirely and then give Chaos a lore upgrade to justify them getting 1+ to wounds as well but the Primaris as they stand are more laughable than anything. We've got an entire faction that.

1) Only has thunderhawks for transport/attack craft
2) Only has Repulsors and Astraeus for armor
3) Only has Repulsors for ground transport
4) Can't even use Drop Pods
5) Has almost no anti-armor capability and is just milling around with boltguns
6) Besides the Astraeus, doesn't even have anti aircraft defenses.
7) Doesn't even have dedicated melee units to protect their only anti-armor from enemy chaff or any real way to deal with things like Daemons or Tyranids

In all regards despite their enhancements they should (and logically are) inferior to a mini marine chapter because they have feth-all in the way of support and should get casually swept aside regarldess of their physical strengths.

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 Melissia wrote:
Err, the Warp isn't a deus ex machina,

A Deus Ex Machina is "an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel."

The Warp isn't unexpected, it's an every day aspect of life (that reasonable people fear, even chaos worshipers).


Uh huh. Its dumb.
   
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Martel732 wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Err, the Warp isn't a deus ex machina,

A Deus Ex Machina is "an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel."

The Warp isn't unexpected, it's an every day aspect of life (that reasonable people fear, even chaos worshipers).


Uh huh. Its dumb.


"The setting is dumb, marines are dumb, the rules are dumb, the game is dumb." -Martel 2019

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
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Martel732 wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Err, the Warp isn't a deus ex machina,

A Deus Ex Machina is "an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel."

The Warp isn't unexpected, it's an every day aspect of life (that reasonable people fear, even chaos worshipers).


Uh huh. Its dumb.

Then go play something else like Battletech. 40k is 40k, and will always be 40k (and thank god because listening to people like you would ruin it).

“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
 
   
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Martel732 wrote:
Uh huh. Its dumb.
Might as well say "the Force makes no sense and it's dumb and all the aliens in star wars are stupid" on a star wars forum, Martel.

The Immaterium is a core aspect of 40k, something that affects nearly every piece of lore in the setting-- and not a "deus ex machina".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/12 23:11:43


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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 Wyzilla wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
 Melissia wrote:
Err, the Warp isn't a deus ex machina,

A Deus Ex Machina is "an unexpected power or event saving a seemingly hopeless situation, especially as a contrived plot device in a play or novel."

The Warp isn't unexpected, it's an every day aspect of life (that reasonable people fear, even chaos worshipers).


Uh huh. Its dumb.

Then go play something else like Battletech. 40k is 40k, and will always be 40k (and thank god because listening to people like you would ruin it).



Silly Wyzilla!

People can't just quit 40k. What would they complain about? Seriously, think these things through first.

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If you delete the warp from 40k you change the setting so fundamentally that I can't even begin to try and work out how to keep the setting together. From how psychic powers work, space travel and several major factions backgrounds. Not to mention of what you do with chaos's various factions.
   
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Get rid of them. They are also dumb.
   
 
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