Switch Theme:

Where Do Grey Knights Stand?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in dk
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders
   
Made in au
Neophyte undergoing Ritual of Detestation





^ I was thinking they were around Black Templar level...maybe a bit higher.

Maybe a pro GK player will work out a build or playstyle pushing them to around BA/DA level in the future.

 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 vict0988 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders

GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 wuestenfux wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders

GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.


I tend to rate GK lower then vanilla Marines of all stripes. this isn't because GK aren't good (the rules changes I think made em solid) but rather because Marines have such a deep toolbox they can be a lot more unpredictable. tell me you're playing grey Knights and I have an idea as to what I'm likely facing, tell me you're taking space marines and it doesn't matter what chapter I honestly won't be able to predict your list beyond a vague "... well he's sallies so will proably have flamers"

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

BrianDavion wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders

GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.


I tend to rate GK lower then vanilla Marines of all stripes. this isn't because GK aren't good (the rules changes I think made em solid) but rather because Marines have such a deep toolbox they can be a lot more unpredictable. tell me you're playing grey Knights and I have an idea as to what I'm likely facing, tell me you're taking space marines and it doesn't matter what chapter I honestly won't be able to predict your list beyond a vague "... well he's sallies so will proably have flamers"

Indeed, would-be competitive GK lists are rather predictable. The enemy knows what he/she can expect.
The toolbox of vanilla Marines are rather large these days. Although our Salamanders player usually brings three Invictors to the board.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




What process do GW go through that makes some armies so uncompetitive compare to others.

To be honest it may be fatigue, there are arguably too many imperial armies and I’d rather see GK and inquisition, for example, to be available supplements to an IG or SM army.

I’d rather the effort went into creating original Xenos or chaos armies
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 wuestenfux wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders

GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.


I tend to rate GK lower then vanilla Marines of all stripes. this isn't because GK aren't good (the rules changes I think made em solid) but rather because Marines have such a deep toolbox they can be a lot more unpredictable. tell me you're playing grey Knights and I have an idea as to what I'm likely facing, tell me you're taking space marines and it doesn't matter what chapter I honestly won't be able to predict your list beyond a vague "... well he's sallies so will proably have flamers"

Indeed, would-be competitive GK lists are rather predictable. The enemy knows what he/she can expect.
The toolbox of vanilla Marines are rather large these days. Although our Salamanders player usually brings three Invictors to the board.


true I mean codex power rankings are pretty generalist, I mean.. I'm sure somewhere out there is a group who reads the hysterics about Iron Hands and goes "... what are they talking about Tim hasn't won a game with them since their supplement game out, I thought Iron Hands sucked"

but I tend to rank a codex that can run several good viable lists fairly highly to the point where they edge out a list that has a monobuild list even if it's potentially SLIGHTLY more powerful.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:


I tend to rate GK lower then vanilla Marines of all stripes. this isn't because GK aren't good (the rules changes I think made em solid) but rather because Marines have such a deep toolbox they can be a lot more unpredictable. tell me you're playing grey Knights and I have an idea as to what I'm likely facing, tell me you're taking space marines and it doesn't matter what chapter I honestly won't be able to predict your list beyond a vague "... well he's sallies so will proably have flamers"


Honest question - how does that convey any real advantage?

As soon as i read through a marine list I have a very good idea how it is designed to play. The fact that other marine lists are different does not matter at all.

Maybe it matters in casual gaming if your opponent tries to catch you out but in competitive gaming the first time I know what faction my opponent is running is when I have their list in my hands.

GK look very good. I have a tournament tomorrow and I fully expect one of the better players there to be running pure GK - because they are really powerful and have a good path to winning the tournament. I honestly do not know quite what my Crimson Fists can do about GK - I think if he plays his best game I just lose. That is just theory, we will see what happens when we put models on the table and play the game.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





happy_inquisitor wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:


I tend to rate GK lower then vanilla Marines of all stripes. this isn't because GK aren't good (the rules changes I think made em solid) but rather because Marines have such a deep toolbox they can be a lot more unpredictable. tell me you're playing grey Knights and I have an idea as to what I'm likely facing, tell me you're taking space marines and it doesn't matter what chapter I honestly won't be able to predict your list beyond a vague "... well he's sallies so will proably have flamers"


Honest question - how does that convey any real advantage?

As soon as i read through a marine list I have a very good idea how it is designed to play. The fact that other marine lists are different does not matter at all.

Maybe it matters in casual gaming if your opponent tries to catch you out but in competitive gaming the first time I know what faction my opponent is running is when I have their list in my hands.

GK look very good. I have a tournament tomorrow and I fully expect one of the better players there to be running pure GK - because they are really powerful and have a good path to winning the tournament. I honestly do not know quite what my Crimson Fists can do about GK - I think if he plays his best game I just lose. That is just theory, we will see what happens when we put models on the table and play the game.


well crimson fists have bonuses vs hoards and tanks so GKs are kind of your kryptonite but the advantage is that a richer more flexable codex makes putting together a workable army easier. thus it's easier to do your own thing and do reasonably well with it, which is something I value. not everyone is going to run the perfectly optimzied list so a codex where you can literally grab an army whose models you like and do well with it is, a bit of a..... logistical advantage, and is simply more FUN. thus all things being equal.. I'll rank the army that has that feature above the one that really only has one way to play if you wanna be reasonably good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 12:08:46


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, SM armies like HI or Crimson/Imperial Fists castle up in the first rounds trying to thin out the enemy army.
Then in the mid/end game they spread out to occupy/fulfill mission objectives.
If you play their game, you will be at the losing end.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 12:38:40


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

 wuestenfux wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders

GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.


As one of the aforementioned Black Templates players, but also a Grey Knights player, I'd argue the three bottom ones (BT/Sala/GK) are roughly interchangeable in power. That level of power is just markedly behind the rest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 14:53:42


For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 wuestenfux wrote:

GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.


Based on my games you guys are hilariously wrong, but I don't play IH, so...YMMV

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 15:52:00


   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 vict0988 wrote:
 Waking Dreamer wrote:
I'm curious in regards to the other SM Chapters with Supplements / PA rules where does current Grey Knights stand?

Compared to the following, where would you slot GKs after you've arranged the list from strongest to least:
- Ultramarines
- White Scars
- Raven Guard
- Iron Hands
- Imperial Fists
- Salamanders
- Blood Angels
- Dark Angels
- Black Templar

- Iron Hands
- Raven Guard
- White Scars
- Imperial Fists
- Dark Angels
- Blood Angels
- Ultramarines
- Grey Knights
- Black Templars
- Salamanders

I'd move a couple of these.

I'd say
Ironhands
Ravengaurd
Darkangels
IF
Whitescars
(Blood Angels
Greyknights
Ultramarines
Saladmanders
Black Templars) the difference in power between these in parenthesis are not that large of a difference.


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I doubt that UM are in the lower bracket.
My ranking would start with IH, IF, UM, Ravenguard, White Scars and GK would be the lowest ranked.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I doubt that UM are in the lower bracket.
My ranking would start with IH, IF, UM, Ravenguard, White Scars and GK would be the lowest ranked.
I do too, but according to Xeno, Ultras might as well not have a chapter tactic it's so bad.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 JNAProductions wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I doubt that UM are in the lower bracket.
My ranking would start with IH, IF, UM, Ravenguard, White Scars and GK would be the lowest ranked.
I do too, but according to Xeno, Ultras might as well not have a chapter tactic it's so bad.


Yet if you go by the LVO results the list is as such:

IH Successor (4.5 avg wins)
RG Successor
IH
RG
AA
IF (3.33 avg wins)
Sallie
WS
UM (2.4 avg wins)
DA

Now there may be other reasons why it is as such an Xeno may not be considering those, but we don't have the info to draw those conclusions. While UM may not be bad they're certainly no IH.

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




well if someone doesn't go hog with the specials hqs, they are worse IH. The really bad stuff seems to be melee centric stuff SW or BT, although bad doesn't have to be horrible to play with. GK aren't good, the way IH or RG are, but they are a lot more fun then they were. The game play, at higher level, requires genius levels of skill and concentration. So not an army for someone who wants solid and simple.

we don;t have any SW or BT players here, and we lost our last BA player. So am not sure if other melee armies are fun to play right now. I have a feeling that maybe not, but I may as well be 100% wrong.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.


Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.


Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?
*Shrug*

Honestly, all I've got with that is anecdotes. I can contend that, as Ultras are kinda the "suggested" subfaction of Marines, you could have a lot of people who are going to their first tournament or just kinda happened into Ultras without really picking, diluting the pool of good players more than other factions, but that's just conjecture.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 JNAProductions wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.


Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?
*Shrug*

Honestly, all I've got with that is anecdotes. I can contend that, as Ultras are kinda the "suggested" subfaction of Marines, you could have a lot of people who are going to their first tournament or just kinda happened into Ultras without really picking, diluting the pool of good players more than other factions, but that's just conjecture.


Right I don't dispute the possibility that better player gravitate to IH or w/e (but then you have to evenly apply that to other factions). There's a lot we don't know.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 18:44:46


   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.


Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?
*Shrug*

Honestly, all I've got with that is anecdotes. I can contend that, as Ultras are kinda the "suggested" subfaction of Marines, you could have a lot of people who are going to their first tournament or just kinda happened into Ultras without really picking, diluting the pool of good players more than other factions, but that's just conjecture.


Right I don't dispute the possibility that better player gravitate to IH or w/e (but then you have to evenly apply that to other factions). There's a lot we don't know.


I'd say calling most competitive "csm" lists csm is a bit of a misnomer as pretty much any list containing csm is soup. It's pretty rare to see a true pure csm army at top tables.

Much less one comprising just one.

Fething.

Legion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 19:15:41


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 JNAProductions wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I doubt that UM are in the lower bracket.
My ranking would start with IH, IF, UM, Ravenguard, White Scars and GK would be the lowest ranked.
I do too, but according to Xeno, Ultras might as well not have a chapter tactic it's so bad.

I really doubt many of those ultramarine players playing pure Ultras. They are likely running successors. The low performance can easily be knocked up a little bit if that isnt the case. Successors are straight up better than Ultras (Nova marines ftw!). Havn't seen that data on what these Ultras lists looked like. However I am pretty confident most players have figured this out.

The chapter tactic is terrible. I face the same issue with Black Legion. Abbadon is a beast but the legion trait is basically like not having a trait.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 19:30:00


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?

I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm having difficulty against GK at the moment myself. Best army I have is a full primaris list, usually two repulsor exes with rerolls will give me the edge over the player.

The points reductions, new strats, tides and psychic causes a lot of damage. Ive played GSC and Orks against him and between all the shots and psychic I'll be lucky not to be tabled.

Any advice in playing against GK? He's building an infantry heavy brigade for the purposes of just spamming smite.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




which type of space marines do you play? In general threat saturation, works really well. A strike costs like an normal bolter primaris with 2W. Also having push backers in the form of venguard space marines can help, if you strugle against something like a paladin bomb. Also tanks and vehicles are the bane of GK. you don't have to use an IH leviathan, even a primaris dreadnought or the scout dread can hurt GK real bad.

Also often the GK player is going to start with a large chunk of his army in reservs. If you play something like RG or RG succesors, or even other marines with 2-3 scout dreads, you can hurt a GK a lot going first.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 JNAProductions wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.


Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?
*Shrug*

Honestly, all I've got with that is anecdotes. I can contend that, as Ultras are kinda the "suggested" subfaction of Marines, you could have a lot of people who are going to their first tournament or just kinda happened into Ultras without really picking, diluting the pool of good players more than other factions, but that's just conjecture.
Is there some kind of data that marines are a starter army of some kind? Because most new players I meet are looking at the models and just pick a first army they think is coolest. Sometimes that will be marines but a lot of times it is another army. I think the primary reason lots of players end up playing marines is over the years of multiple box deals you will inevitably end up with marines of some kind and end up building the army. I've also never seen anyone come in off the street and just fall in love with the Ultramarines. Likely someone will tell them not to play them and do something "cooler " like blood angels or space wolves. It is utterly nonsensical to apply these ideas over and over again as to why Ultras and really non IH/RG/IF armies aren't doing really well with their "broken" rules. The answer is pretty simple if you ask me. You are used to rolling over space marine players for the entirety of your gaming experience that it just feels wrong to you that a marine player can now roll you. Hint...Every army should be able to roll you. Just not at iron-hands level.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 19:40:52


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Xenomancers wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, definitely. IH is broken broken-UM is just too good.


Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?
*Shrug*

Honestly, all I've got with that is anecdotes. I can contend that, as Ultras are kinda the "suggested" subfaction of Marines, you could have a lot of people who are going to their first tournament or just kinda happened into Ultras without really picking, diluting the pool of good players more than other factions, but that's just conjecture.
Is there some kind of data that marines are a starter army of some kind? Because most new players I meet are looking at the models and just pick a first army they think is coolest. Sometimes that will be marines but a lot of times it is another army. I think the primary reason lots of players end up playing marines is over the years of multiple box deals you will inevitably end up with marines of some kind and end up building the army. I've also never seen anyone come in off the street and just fall in love with the Ultramarines. Likely someone will tell them not to play them and do something "cooler " like blood angels or space wolves. It is utterly nonsensical to apply these ideas over and over again as to why Ultras and really non IH/RG/IF armies aren't doing really well with their "broken" rules. The answer is pretty simple if you ask me. You are used to rolling over space marine players for the entirety of your gaming experience that it just feels wrong to you that a marine player can now roll you. Hint...Every army should be able to roll you. Just not at iron-hands level.
My issues with Marines (of all stripes) is not that I cannot roll them. It's that I crush too easily with them-I've played Marines. And they're not fun-they're too powerful.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Karol wrote:
why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?

I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.

It is slightly less douche. Literally the only difference between the 2 is you can't take the special characters.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




ah, we don't do stuff like that here. unless it is somehow a money thing. I would buy a SW army over an IH army, if the SW army was 1/3 of the cost.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: