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 Argive wrote:
I mean who does not like the feeling of debuting a polished fresh new addition to their army

And then watching it die/run without doing anything :-)

To be frank, there's a minimum serviceable painting level:

* The figure is assembled and primed. You can stop here if you apply a wash/contrast paint. Or, for that matter, prime and dry brush.
* Whatever facing, unit membership or other markings the model needs are marked on the model.

I've learned three things over the years:
1. Grey plastic and metal is hard to distinguish on the opposite side of the table.
2. If you prime a model (especially if it's primed black), it looks like an indeterminate blob from the other side of the table. It can actually be harder to see what a single color primed model is (especially if it's primed black).
3. A two color base coat (prime and shade) can be painted over slowly, if you want.

So that's the bar for me. Anything above base coat and shade, plus game markings, is bonus. Anything below the bar, I will volunteer to help you prep your models.

4/5, to me it's very important

I've played a couple of games with primed models (never bare plastic), and it doesn't feel right, so now I only play with fully painted models

Of course it's more fun and immersive to also play against a fully painted army on nice terrain, but I wouldn't turn down a game against a new player who hasn't got time to learn/paint yet

If it is a regular opponent I would expect some progress between games though - if you don't bother trying to paint I won't bother trying to play against you either...

I really dislike painting. I just don't have the patience to really get in there detail my models. However, I force myself to paint every model before I field it because I do find it to be an important step in the hobby. That doesn't mean I haven't put grey/primed plastic on the board when the excitement to try a new model overtook the length of time required to paint it. But I try really hard not to do that.

3/5 painting is important.

It's the most important part. I dont even need a game with it attached

Moriarty wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I mean who does not like the feeling of debuting a polished fresh new addition to their army

And then watching it die/run without doing anything :-)

My brother actually used that as an argument not to paint. His painted models (units) always seemed to die first. He was convinced the “ugly” unpainted models were subconsciously not being picked over the “attractive” painted ones.

 Stormonu wrote:

My brother actually used that as an argument not to paint. His painted models (units) always seemed to die first. He was convinced the “ugly” unpainted models were subconsciously not being picked over the “attractive” painted ones.

All the models in your army are supposed to be painted so that cannot happen!

 Strg Alt wrote:
It's the most important aspect. Period.

I don't understand why people even bother shoving minis around the board with unpainted stuff. Hmm, it seems to me these are the same people who are okay with putting soda cans on the table as terrain or even, God forbid, models.

A better hobby would be for them MtG but as lazy as these guys are they wouldn't even take an effort to put their cards into sleeves.

If it’s a new player putting an army on the field they have just assembled and haven’t had time to paint, I can completely understand an excitement for getting in a game with new models. Also this time of year in South Dakota I understand people not painting minis, if you don’t have a warm area to prime you can’t go outside and do it. At the flgs there is a guy who if the models don’t come painted when he buys them they will never be painted, that is a lot less acceptable and he sometimes is a tfg.

 Stormonu wrote:

Moriarty wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I mean who does not like the feeling of debuting a polished fresh new addition to their army

And then watching it die/run without doing anything :-)

My brother actually used that as an argument not to paint. His painted models (units) always seemed to die first. He was convinced the “ugly” unpainted models were subconsciously not being picked over the “attractive” painted ones.

We had a tournament with some grey plastic terrain and an unpainted squad of cultists sat in the terrain and both sides forgot they existed until the end of the game.

TheAvengingKnee wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
It's the most important aspect. Period.

I don't understand why people even bother shoving minis around the board with unpainted stuff. Hmm, it seems to me these are the same people who are okay with putting soda cans on the table as terrain or even, God forbid, models.

A better hobby would be for them MtG but as lazy as these guys are they wouldn't even take an effort to put their cards into sleeves.

If it’s a new player putting an army on the field they have just assembled and haven’t had time to paint, I can completely understand an excitement for getting in a game with new models. Also this time of year in South Dakota I understand people not painting minis, if you don’t have a warm area to prime you can’t go outside and do it. At the flgs there is a guy who if the models don’t come painted when he buys them they will never be painted, that is a lot less acceptable and he sometimes is a tfg.

I disagree with your statement that not painting isn't very acceptable.

Being TFG isn't cool, regardless of how well-done your minis are, but not painting... Some people just don't like to paint. If you don't want to play with unpainted minis, also totally fine (just so long as you're not rude about it, of course) but if that player doesn't find joy in painting, that's his feelings.

As for a general comment on the poll, it definitely seems most people value painting more than me. Which I get-I'm not a particularly artsy person, nor a good painter, so naturally I place less value on aesthetics than a lot of other hobbyists.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

 Crimson wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

Yeah they could easily play x wing or MTG if they didn't want to paint. I find it weird when people say it as if they don't know what they're getting into.

Crimson wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

small_gods wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

Yeah they could easily play x wing or MTG if they didn't want to paint. I find it weird when people say it as if they don't know what they're getting into.

I do play MtG, and it's fun. But it's a very different kind of fun from 40k. Wargames scratch a different itch than card games. I've tried to get my friends into MEdge, and looked into Infinity (but have no one to play with) so I'm stuck with 40k, since I do have a GW. And, while the rules are most definitely NOT the best, I still have fun with it.

I also like building models. But not painting them.

@JNAProductions - I'd try and hire some commission painters to paint your army. Even to a table top standard would be cheaper than starting another large army.

I only paint for a handful of people - but my clients attend a few massive tournaments a year that involve hotel/flight/multiple days of gaming. Since they're strapped for time and skill - between each event they would send models to me to work on and paint to prep for the next event. This is more common in Warmachine/Infinity/40k from what I've seen.I've been painting their models for evens for 6+ years now at this point. They explain it to me all the time that gaming is a different "itch"

I'm an edh/casual player in mtg and have fun with uit - but I hate thier standard format and quit anything other than edh/fnm. It's whatever works gamewise for you..

If youre not into painting I'd reccomend Xwing or Heroclix - both are huge

 Crimson wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

Nah, just the wrong people to play with. Some just like the game, some likes the models, not everyone is a painter.

I will play against anyone's army painted or not, but there is something special about a game where both sides have painted forces.

Seeing fully painted armies at a GW store in Gastown convinced me to paint my own and that was a long time ago.

I personally will never field a unit or model without it being painted and sealed.

My two cents,

CB

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

Nah, just the wrong people to play with. Some just like the game, some likes the models, not everyone is a painter.

If people bring a sea of grey plastic every game then they are the wrong people to play against. Part of the game is about the visuals of the battlefield and if you make no effort to paint your minis then you are making no effort to improve your opponents experience. I can understand not having time to paint a lot of new minis at once but if you never paint then you're in the wrong hobby.

It's really not even that difficult anymore, pick up an airgun or some contrast paint. Put down a base colour and spend 10 minutes on each mini adding details.

The contrast paints are bloody amazing. They look pretty damn good without any extra highlights or shadowing (which I obviously do add, but that is the optional step.)

 small_gods wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Some people just don't like to paint.

Then they have chosen a wrong hobby.

It is if you joined a historical reenactment group but were like, "I just don't care about making costumes and dressing up" and showed up in your jeans and t-shirt to a Napoleonic reenactment.

Nah, just the wrong people to play with. Some just like the game, some likes the models, not everyone is a painter.

If people bring a sea of grey plastic every game then they are the wrong people to play against. Part of the game is about the visuals of the battlefield and if you make no effort to paint your minis then you are making no effort to improve your opponents experience. I can understand not having time to paint a lot of new minis at once but if you never paint then you're in the wrong hobby.

It's really not even that difficult anymore, pick up an airgun or some contrast paint. Put down a base colour and spend 10 minutes on each mini adding details.

Thats for you, i don't care if my opponent wants to play full grey, i'd rather he be happy with his hobby than me getting upset about it, as i want to play a game, b.c i like playing as much as the other parts of the hobby. B.c it is a game also. I have play many miniature board games; Arcadia Quest, Massive Darkness, Kingdom of death, etc.. that most people dont paint and it doesn't bother me, or many others that i know.

Crimson and Small Gods are the type of toxicity that we don't need in our game.

Who made you god emperor of GW to tell me that I'm in the wrong hobby if I don't enjoy painting models?

I've played GW games since 1996. I enjoy a lot more of the hobby than the painting. I field all painted armies at the tournaments I go to because it is a requirement not because I find it particularly enjoyable.

If you don't want to play against non-painted armies sure, it's your world do what you want. But the gatekeeping and entitlement of people who have the gall to tell me I'm not doing my hobby right is eye opening. I've never run across people like that at any tournaments or games I've gone to and I'm glad that WAAC try hards keep people that think this way away from my enjoyment of the hobby.

Enjoy the hobby how you want. You don't like painting models, go for it. You want to proxy your space marines as tau, sure - more power to you. Constantly chase the meta with commission painted armies, if that's what floats your boat. Telling people they aren't playing with their toy soldiers right, feth you and the horse you rode in on.

Sure, but that's leaning toward the common misconception of "It's your hobby". This rings true when you're buying your miniatures, and painting your miniatures, and if you game alone or solo, etc.

The second you put your miniatures onto a table with an opponent or opponents, it becomes "our hobby", and you're now providing your portion of the entertainment value. For many people (including many of those who insist it's not...) painted miniatures and proper terrain is the predominant reason they play tabletop wargames. A good looking and enjoyable game is a cooperative affair, nothing less. Each player is bringing a portion of the game with them. This includes their attitude, their rules knowledge, their models and miniatures representing their force, and yes, their element of the aesthetic of the game.

If you don't care at all about the aesthetic of the game, you're in a very small minority. If you find other people who don't care about the aesthetics of the game, congrats. You've reached a great gaming milestone; finding likeminded individuals to play with.

No one looks at a game with grey miniatures running around unpainted MDF and says "hell yeah, that's awesome, I want to do that!". We see White Dwarf articles and pictures on forums of beautiful games, and that's what drives the wargaming hobby; enthusiasm for "the beautiful game" if you will.

If you think people who want to enjoy a more fulfilling hobby experience are elitists or gatekeepers or (insert other yawn-inducing internet terms...) you're welcome to believe that. No one needs to apologize for liking nice things. I had a fully painted (albeit small, perhaps 1,200 points by today's values) Eldar army in high school...on a high school budget, with high school skills. I played on a table made from a huge plank of grey drywall I spray-painted green...IN HIGH SCHOOL.



If you're an adult there's little to zero excuse to not put some effort into painting your gak. It's not the community's job to baby you and coddle you because you're not interested in putting in effort. That's a decision you make.

I went 3/5 and that may be me being a tad generous.
While I enjoy painting I prefer kitbashing/modelling more and enjoy playing even more than that.
I show up at tournaments with fully built and painted models but don’t particularly care in casuals and really don’t care what my opponent has as long as they tell me what things are at the start of the game.

bananathug wrote:
Crimson and Small Gods are the type of toxicity that we don't need in our game.

Who made you god emperor of GW to tell me that I'm in the wrong hobby if I don't enjoy painting models?

I've played GW games since 1996. I enjoy a lot more of the hobby than the painting. I field all painted armies at the tournaments I go to because it is a requirement not because I find it particularly enjoyable.

If you don't want to play against non-painted armies sure, it's your world do what you want. But the gatekeeping and entitlement of people who have the gall to tell me I'm not doing my hobby right is eye opening. I've never run across people like that at any tournaments or games I've gone to and I'm glad that WAAC try hards keep people that think this way away from my enjoyment of the hobby.

Enjoy the hobby how you want. You don't like painting models, go for it. You want to proxy your space marines as tau, sure - more power to you. Constantly chase the meta with commission painted armies, if that's what floats your boat. Telling people they aren't playing with their toy soldiers right, feth you and the horse you rode in on.

Haha toxic gatekeeper I like it!

I'm very much not alone in wanting to not look at the results of your laziness, if you think that playing against grey plastic is as enjoyable as playing against a painted army you are deluding yourself.

None of us have said "You HAVE to play against unpainted minis".

In fact, I directly said "If you don't want to play with unpainted minis, also totally fine."

But to say that EVERYONE has to enjoy the hobby in the same way seems... At a minimum, foolish, and at it's most extreme, really flipping rude.

Huh. The surprising upshot I'm getting from this thread is we should be asking GW for exclusively prepainted minis from now on, because unpainted is a crime and sin worse than murder, and they shouldn't enable it.

Voss wrote:
Huh. The surprising upshot I'm getting from this thread is we should be asking GW for exclusively prepainted minis from now on, because unpainted is a crime and sin worse than murder, and they shouldn't enable it.

considering how most of the time people just paint whatever Gw decides is the studio paintjob anyway, why not. then apparently people like me would be in the "right place" with our lack of eyes for painting and such. if the paint is this integral, why not play a game with actually painted mini's by default, or as some argue in other threads (and even in this one), a game thats models and rules actually deserve the effort of painting more.

come to think of it, if they did pre-paint the models, it would add value to the boxes.

Yeah, I don't much care if my opponent has their stuff painted, but it adds to the experience.

But personally, painting my own stuff is like 80% of the whole hobby for me, with assembly/conversion being 10% and actually playing the remaining 10%.
The playing part used to be much higher, but ya know, life happens

-

What's more interesting is that the majority of the hyperbole is coming from the unpainted promoters in the thread though.

If I say, for instance; you're appearing lazy and you're not putting in effort....this becomes "a sin worse than murder"?

JNA, who has said that you're enjoying the hobby wrong? What we've said is that by bringing unfinished stuff to the table, you're diminishing other people's enjoyment of the hobby. If you don't care about other people's enjoyment; that's fine - but don't misconstrue those statements. No one is saying what you can or can't do by yourself, at your hobby desk. But again, there is the continuing misconception that playing a 2+ person game is somehow solely "your hobby".

On the flip side, if someone shows up to your game with a fully painted army (even to a simple tabletop standard) and a nicely laid out table with terrain for you to game on - would this actively diminish your enjoyment of the game somehow? It's a door that swings in one direction. No one is ever going to think "ugh..fine" when their opponent has a properly built/painted/equipped army on the table. That means they respect you enough to put in the effort to do what they can to create an attractive game for you.

 Strg Alt wrote:
It's the most important aspect. Period.

I don't understand why people even bother shoving minis around the board with unpainted stuff. Hmm, it seems to me these are the same people who are okay with putting soda cans on the table as terrain or even, God forbid, models.

A better hobby would be for them MtG but as lazy as these guys are they wouldn't even take an effort to put their cards into sleeves.

There's this quote, among many others.

That quote didn't say anything about how you enjoy your hobby. He said he didn't understand why people do that. He also presents some valid points; if painting isn't an interest - why bother with tabletop wargames when other games exist that aren't based around building a 3D aesthetic simulation?

He believe it to be lazy, and that's a pretty valid argument with the ease with which you can paint armies today. I don't know the author of that post, but I'm inclined to agree with him. I don't understand why someone would get joy out of unpainted models and sub-par terrain; but that doesn't equate to it being wrong, if it's something you're doing by yourself. I do get a say in the matter when the game occurs between us though, thus I can decline the game if desired.

You can all have your own “rules” to enjoy the hobby. You only want to play against fully painted armies on nicely built tables, fine when that person at the FLGS with a grey plastic army asks you for a game, say “No thank you” and leave it at that. Don’t go into a diatribe about the sin of grey plastic