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I’m clearing out some of my stuff and found the proprietary dice for Halo Fleet Battles. Does anyone want the Halo dice? I’ll send them for the cost of shipping. If I turn up any templates or rules books, I’ll throw them in, too.

 Easy E wrote:
Osprey will be coming out with a space battle game soon. Something called A Billion Suns or something like that.

That they are. Slated for release May 26.
http://abillionsuns.space

Oh man... that description sounds VERY Expanse, especially for those reading the books.

That sounds very good, I'll definitely be picking it up, but I'm also a little apprehensive because a lot of what is being described are similar (or virtually identical) to mechanics I've been working on for ~15 years on my own game >_<

Why don't you like Star Wars Armada. Has a great system, and pretty easy to play

I've heard good things about Dropfleet Commander

DfC is more or less a modernized version of BFG. The one downside of DfC is that if you play it the way its meant to be played the game becomes less about fleet engagements and more about scoring points by delivering troops to objectives - but thats easily fixed with custom scenarios.

I would second Dropfleet. It is a good system with beautiful models and solid setting. Obviously it comes down to preference, but I would count the objective game in its favor. The fact that victory largely relies on taking points really forces a faster pace as fleets are racing to clash over objectives rather than kiting one another. There are many ways to approach the objectives and the game remains very much about ships exploding. If you ever want to try it out on tabletop simulator there are plenty of people on the discord looking for games.

As a fan of Full Thrust, let me say this:

While many people say that the game can't handle more than a dozen or so ships, it can. But don't expect a 2 hour game. I've run games at conventions that had 40+ ships and finished in 5 hours. I did simplify a few things to speed up the game, and made all fire "simultaneous" to speed things up. See some pics of an Star Trek assault on Deep Space Nine for example:



Or this assault on an shipyard:


Or for a really crazy game, the one my son and I did in our basement (he just had to use every miniature he owned and borrowed some of mine too): It took a while, to say the least.



There isn't going to be an V3 of the Full Thrust rules. So some fans, after consulting with GZG and getting his approval, put together an compilation rule set called "Full Thrust: Project Continuum", which I was involved in editing and producing. It isn't perfect, as we aren't professional writers/editors, but it gives you a large toolbox of stuff to work with. It looks intimidating, but you use what works for you and ignore the rest.

Available here:

https://emeraldcoastskunkworks.wordpress.com/category/project-continum-rules/

For a less intimidating starter version of the game, try the Full Thrust Lite rules, and then add to them when you are ready:

https://shop.groundzerogames.co.uk/rules.html

Very nice thread, since I'm also on the look for a space combat game. I never played these kind of games, so I'm new. After reading here and doing some research, I came down with several options:

- Full Thrust: it's mostly recommended here. I don't know what to say about this game. It looks old, it feels old, and it is old. I understand the rules haven't been updated since 1992. None of the major sites carries products for this game. I went to the producer's site - it looks like it was designed in the 90's. It does have a lot of ships for selling, and quite cheap, but all have 1 image, B/W and very small. So my overall impression for this one is not good.

- Dropfleet Commander: Now this one looks really really cool. The ships look amazing, esp the big ones- I think they are hands down the best looking ships I ever seen.

- X-Wing/Armada: the most popular by far (so easy to get products, possible tournaments, etc). But I don't care about the universe, the models are meh, and they come prepainted. So the question is - are the rules really good? Or is just the star wars craze + prepainted models that carry this game?

- Aeronautica Imperialis: I'm surprised nobody mentioned this one. Cool looking models, interesting game, easy to get and it seems fairly cheap.


So, what I'm looking for is a game with beautiful models, that let's me play BIG spaceships (I'm looking for bigger battles), with a solid game system that's fun, deep but also good for a more casual setting.

Among Dropfleet/Star Wars games/Aeronautica = which one has the biggest models? - model size/scale. And how do they compare to each other gameplay wise (how a game feels)? Among these 3(4) options, which one you would recommend? Thank you.

Armada has the biggest models, but they aren't to-scale, game uses a sliding scale, hence you have Imperial Star Destroyers that are 8" long and Super Star Destroyers that are only 24" long.

The game is fantastic, rules are incredible, Id say its the best naval game on the market, but its not a fleet action game, the most ships you can get on one side in a standard size game is 6, usually itll be 2-3. You can play hogher points limits of course but its not commonly done.

X-wing also has great rules, or at least it did, theres been some turmoil over recent updates to the rules. That said its not a fleet combat game, its a digfighting game, completely different category.

Dropfleet Commander is ok. I like it but many don't, the rules are not spectacular and have some issues. The game is less about spacheship battles and more about maneuvering transports to capture cities from orbit.

As an aside, Full Thrust is a "generic" ruleset. You use whatever miniatures you want and stat them up based on the ship building and customization rules. Its not a game with an official miniatures range.

Full Thrust has an official Miniature Range, going with the pre-made factions in the force lists
and a 2 player starter was released in 2016 with a rules update in cooperation with Mechworld

they offer a ship builder on their website (after making an account) https://mechworld.de/ and a new fleet with 3d printed models as alternative to the metal ones from GZG (they also added list to play with the Battlestar Galactica models from Revell)

yes it is an old school game that offers pre-made lists and models but much more of a sandbox were you can do whatever you want with the shipbuilding tools offered (and people are also making their own gaming aids like X-Wing style maneuver wheels)

AFAIK those are all licensed miniatures, I didn't think any of them were produced by the same guys that did the rules?

Ground Zero Games makes the models for all their games, as well as gaming aids

you get the Starships as well as the 25mm, 15mm and 6mm models to match Full Thrust, Stargrunt and Dirtside background that comes with the rules

chaos0xomega wrote:
Armada has the biggest models, but they aren't to-scale, game uses a sliding scale, hence you have Imperial Star Destroyers that are 8" long and Super Star Destroyers that are only 24" long.

The game is fantastic, rules are incredible, Id say its the best naval game on the market, but its not a fleet action game, the most ships you can get on one side in a standard size game is 6, usually itll be 2-3. You can play hogher points limits of course but its not commonly done.

X-wing also has great rules, or at least it did, theres been some turmoil over recent updates to the rules. That said its not a fleet combat game, its a digfighting game, completely different category.

Dropfleet Commander is ok. I like it but many don't, the rules are not spectacular and have some issues. The game is less about spacheship battles and more about maneuvering transports to capture cities from orbit.

As an aside, Full Thrust is a "generic" ruleset. You use whatever miniatures you want and stat them up based on the ship building and customization rules. Its not a game with an official miniatures range.

Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't like the space ships from Armada. They are indeed huge (I had to check that 24' behemoth), but...I don't know, fairly bland looking. And the fact that you can't bring many ships is also a downside to me. Dropfleet Commander seems the most atractive so far - I don't mind the idea that I have to focus on objectives instead of just wiping each other out - seems more interesting and realistic.

I have another question: how do these style of games compare with the classic naval wargames? Especially the ones with sails. For example, with Armada from Mantic. Is the gameplay different enough to warrant having both, or is just the same thing but in space instead on the sea.

Many /most (?) space fleet games tend to play alot like naval games - mostly cos 3d movement is complicated to make work. Few seem to have rolling the ship as a option - I remember BattleSpace doing so - I have it but never played it.

There are also some Steam punk Air/Sea games out or coming out which do sometimes have a height component.

TBh you could use space ships with many naval game rules and vice versa IMO.

I would say Full Thrust with the Vector Rules or X-Wing with the maneuver is different enough compared to naval games to play both

 emanuelb wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Armada has the biggest models, but they aren't to-scale, game uses a sliding scale, hence you have Imperial Star Destroyers that are 8" long and Super Star Destroyers that are only 24" long.

The game is fantastic, rules are incredible, Id say its the best naval game on the market, but its not a fleet action game, the most ships you can get on one side in a standard size game is 6, usually itll be 2-3. You can play hogher points limits of course but its not commonly done.

X-wing also has great rules, or at least it did, theres been some turmoil over recent updates to the rules. That said its not a fleet combat game, its a digfighting game, completely different category.

Dropfleet Commander is ok. I like it but many don't, the rules are not spectacular and have some issues. The game is less about spacheship battles and more about maneuvering transports to capture cities from orbit.

As an aside, Full Thrust is a "generic" ruleset. You use whatever miniatures you want and stat them up based on the ship building and customization rules. Its not a game with an official miniatures range.

Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't like the space ships from Armada. They are indeed huge (I had to check that 24' behemoth), but...I don't know, fairly bland looking. And the fact that you can't bring many ships is also a downside to me. Dropfleet Commander seems the most atractive so far - I don't mind the idea that I have to focus on objectives instead of just wiping each other out - seems more interesting and realistic.

I have another question: how do these style of games compare with the classic naval wargames? Especially the ones with sails. For example, with Armada from Mantic. Is the gameplay different enough to warrant having both, or is just the same thing but in space instead on the sea.

I would say both SW Armada and DfC have a good amount of separation from wet navy games, moreso than most others in the space navy genre. SW Armada is the least like classic naval of the the ones listed. The movement system alone kind of builds in a sort of "soft" vector movement aspect of it with the way the movement tool works, which allows for ships to move in ways that they could theoretically move in space, but not in the water. The streamlining of the game mechanics also means that a lot of the traditional hallmarks of wet navy combat mechanics aren't really present as a lot of wet navy games are unnecessarily detail oriented and SW Armada... isn't. DfC has certain elements of wet navy (it is, after all, built on the bones of Battlefleet Gothic which is the greatest wet navy game to ever be set in space), but separates itself with the signature-based targeting system and the presence of three levels of "altitude" that make battles fairly distinct in terms of how they feel - in general I would say its a departure from traditional wet navy games but not so much as to be unapproachable to someone who wanted something a bit more familiar (without actually just being a wet navy game in a space setting).

For what its worth never had trouble with "fleet" games of Star Fleet Battles, if you had sensible fleets - i.e. groups of similar ships with similar movement profiles that could run together.. helped to have a few players per side and to be very used to the game in single ship and squadron level games though.

Other options, the Traveller universe games "Brilliant Lancers" and "Battle Rider" were ok (if you could stand the "new era" background stuff of course), interesting scenario system in Battle Rider which was by far the better game for a fleet thing.

however pretty much every 'space' game is either a rechrome of a naval game or a rechrome of an air combat game, some hide it well, some don't even try, good mix of both are good games though

as with anything 'space' really comes down to deciding if you want a science fantasy game or something a little bit more grounded.

for a slightly more abstract system the Traveller system in the original Trillion Credit Squadron book is not too bad but it is abstract

for the idea of the best "fleet" system you really need to define what sort of universe you want, what you mean by "fleet" (e.g. dozens of ships or a handfull, do you want fighters/gunships etc) and how you define "best"

for me if its a decent number of units you want but without too much record keeping have a whirl with Star Fleet Battles but leave the ships at home, run with fighters and heavy fighters, in an asteroid field.

and some sort of forfeit penalty for each fighter you lose

I like both Dropfleet Commander and Full Thrust Continuum.

Has anyone here seen an online source for SSD's to use Dropfleet Commander ships converted for Full Thrust? I am hoping to save some time by relying on someone else sharing the legwork they have already done.

SSD’s? Super Star Destroyers?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
SSD’s? Super Star Destroyers?

System status display… the stats of the ship so to speak.

https://emeraldcoastskunkworks.wordpress.com/2014/09/12/ssd-icons-for-full-thrust/

Well. Bought a new fleet for War Rocket and two rulebooks, one for myself and one for a buddy, I will be reporting in on our games for anybody interested in pulp sci-fi ship combat.

I haven't seen the 1930's stylings for a ship game in a while. What distinguishes the rules from the existing offerings whether modern (like DFC) or classic (like FT)?

 warboss wrote:
I haven't seen the 1930's stylings for a ship game in a while. What distinguishes the rules from the existing offerings whether modern (like DFC) or classic (like FT)?

From the last time I played it almost a decade ago, it is the movement and combat system, along with the simplicity of learning the game.

A ship only has two stats, the rest of the "stats" are the weapon firepower and their firing arcs.

Movement (while either inch or hex based) follows a similar process to X-Wing. Slow ships move first, and fast ships move later. Each faction moves differently though, with each following a theme based off of their design inspirations. The Galacteers ships move like airplanes in space, the Space Pirates move as if they are using hard fuel rockets, the ones that look like classic rounded UFO's move in big zig-zag type movements since they don't turn during moves, but can turn to face any direction after a move.

The game doesn't try to be a simulation, as much as lean into classic tropes that the factions are inspired from.

Combat takes some ideas from Battletech in that everybody assigns targets at the same time. However each ship does not make individual attacks, each ship assigns it's firepower out to targets, and you choose a single ship to make the attack roll, the assigned firepower from the other ships adds to the D10 roll.

Sounds interesting with the different movement modes. I also wasn't aware that this has been around for a decade as I figured it was a new or upcoming game when you posted it.

War Rocket has been around forever. Never seen anyone play the rules, but I've seen lots of people use the ships for other rulesets.

Imao the best-looking spaceship minis ever made for a wargame are the Drop Fleet commander ones and the Firestorm Armada ones, especially those released from the Planet Fall series till just before Spartan went bankrupt.

The Firstorm Armada mins unfortunately are difficult to find them on the second-hand market, and when you do, they use the be sold almost to a price per gram of resin equivalent to a gram of gold. They are pretty much collection items. But this also speaks to how good they were the minis and the game, imao. I like especially how paramount positioning and arc maximization were in Firestorm Armada. At least to me, the opus manga of spaceship wargames. How I miss this game...

At least to me. In the case of the Drop fleet commander I think is interesting how the signature and the spikes work, the 3D dimension between different layers and the interaction between the orbital battle and the ground assets. Imao I think is a more realistic approach to how a space battle will feel like if we ever live to see it. The semi-3D approach and the sensor/ signature thingy are visionary in regards. Other games used to feel more 2D and "sea battles in space"-like. To me is the best spaceship wargame currently in the market.

Both minis-wise and game-wise are good. But hey! everybody likes their cup of tea.

Found a remarkable BFG rewrite the other day, in the style of current retro casual heartbreakers (Space Weirdos, The Doomed, etc)

https://www.wargamevault.com/product/470062/Void-Admiral

It's blatantly a BFG clone with streamlined everything and replaces Special Orders with 8 faction specific ability dashboards ala SAGA/Warcry.

Well worth the 2 bucks.

Thanks for this, the game I wanted but didn't know existed!

Having looked through it, it looks like it does exactly what I wanted. I wanted to introduce space battles to my Grimdark Future games as a sort of additional fun part, but the BFG rules I was worried were probably a bit much for my non-wargamer opponent. This looks like it does a good job of simplifying while keeping the flavour intact. Also, you've got faction equivalents for the factions I have for GF.
Hegemon - Imperial Navy/Imperial Guard
Renegades - Chaos
Ancients - Dark Eldar (I decided to not have Craftworld Eldar, mostly for thematic reasons. I prefer the piratical Eldar of Rogue Trader)
Brutes - Orks
Cyborgs - Necrons, Space Marines
Insectoids - Tyranids
Mining Guild - Dwarf Guild (Mantic Forgefathers for me, as Demiurg)
Merchants - Tau

They also have Disciples, but I don't have any faction that really fits them.

Really exciting, I wanted to do some bigger campaign style games and having the void war aspect will make it really fun.
Also not mad at a 4'x3' play area tbh.