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Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



The dark hollows of Kentucky

BrianDavion wrote:
I know some RPG manafacturers do this. If you buy a Morphedius product (such as the Star Trek RPG) you're able to get a code for the PDF, if you order it from them you're even given the code the minute you order it.

Like certain record labels that give you the mp3 version of an album if you buy the physical copy? That would be great if it would automatically update with faqs.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Gadzilla666 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I know some RPG manafacturers do this. If you buy a Morphedius product (such as the Star Trek RPG) you're able to get a code for the PDF, if you order it from them you're even given the code the minute you order it.

Like certain record labels that give you the mp3 version of an album if you buy the physical copy? That would be great if it would automatically update with faqs.


I'd support this, course knowing GW they'd give us the digital extended edition that requires and apple product to read.

this is another reason to oppose a primarily digital source, GW's digital books are eaither apple only or crap

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



The dark hollows of Kentucky

BrianDavion wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I know some RPG manafacturers do this. If you buy a Morphedius product (such as the Star Trek RPG) you're able to get a code for the PDF, if you order it from them you're even given the code the minute you order it.

Like certain record labels that give you the mp3 version of an album if you buy the physical copy? That would be great if it would automatically update with faqs.


I'd support this, course knowing GW they'd give us the digital extended edition that requires and apple product to read.

this is another reason to oppose a primarily digital source, GW's digital books are eaither apple only or crap

So the digital versions only work on iwhatevers? Bleeacckk!
Guess I'm sticking to lugging around my stack of miss printed books and faqs. Fething Steve Jobs still rules from the grave I see.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





No - android has a PDF version essentially. Only Apple has the interactive whatever.

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





and the PDFs are pretty bad

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in ch
Revered Rogue Psyker





BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It really doesn't.

I'd rather re-check the rules every few months than go another four years with defunct rules and no way of knowing how they are intended to be used.


Yea I don't know what the hell people are smoking. Utter disdain for GW? Plain ignorance? Over-baked nostalgia? We may never know.


some people hate change, any thing that means more change is thus bad


Change for monetizations sake as is ca and then also having seemingly Zero Standards in place does tend to make people angry though.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page

A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
_______________________________

Who would win:
10'000 + years of veterancy, or some raidy Boys?
Trick Question, of course it's the loyalists!

(Not Online in regards to the new Red Corsair battalion CP boost and 8th edition.) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not Online!!! wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It really doesn't.

I'd rather re-check the rules every few months than go another four years with defunct rules and no way of knowing how they are intended to be used.


Yea I don't know what the hell people are smoking. Utter disdain for GW? Plain ignorance? Over-baked nostalgia? We may never know.


some people hate change, any thing that means more change is thus bad


Change for monetizations sake as is ca and then also having seemingly Zero Standards in place does tend to make people angry though.


Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine



The dark hollows of Kentucky

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It really doesn't.

I'd rather re-check the rules every few months than go another four years with defunct rules and no way of knowing how they are intended to be used.


Yea I don't know what the hell people are smoking. Utter disdain for GW? Plain ignorance? Over-baked nostalgia? We may never know.


some people hate change, any thing that means more change is thus bad


Change for monetizations sake as is ca and then also having seemingly Zero Standards in place does tend to make people angry though.


Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.

What do you want them to do? Hire editors? Proofreaders? PLAYTESTERS?

Madness.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Gadzilla666 wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
It really doesn't.

I'd rather re-check the rules every few months than go another four years with defunct rules and no way of knowing how they are intended to be used.


Yea I don't know what the hell people are smoking. Utter disdain for GW? Plain ignorance? Over-baked nostalgia? We may never know.


some people hate change, any thing that means more change is thus bad


Change for monetizations sake as is ca and then also having seemingly Zero Standards in place does tend to make people angry though.


Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.

What do you want them to do? Hire editors? Proofreaders? PLAYTESTERS?

Madness.


Can I say yes to all of the above ?
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/09 10:04:10


 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






I'm just irritated that I'm supposed to not only buy CA for army updates, but PA books as well. Since I can't play with any regularity currently, they lost me on those purchases. Had it just been CA, I would have gone for the updates. Spread out over 2-3 books and I'll pass on buying all of it and instead just use my phone camera if I need to.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





AngryAngel80 wrote:
Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.


I still prefer them releasing a document fixing errors after each book over them making the same amount of errors and not fixing them like they did in 6th and through most of 7th.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






As evinced by their skyrocketing share price, the majority of GW's customers seem to think the products as they're currently offering are good enough – not perfect, but good *enough* to still part with their money for. No company with its head screwed on straight would say "ah, well what we're doing already is clearly working, so our next move as a business should be to vastly increase our financial outlay simply to appease a vocal minority of hard-core pedants and internet complainers"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm just irritated that I'm supposed to not only buy CA for army updates, but PA books as well. Since I can't play with any regularity currently, they lost me on those purchases. Had it just been CA, I would have gone for the updates. Spread out over 2-3 books and I'll pass on buying all of it and instead just use my phone camera if I need to.

Oh I totally agree. I'm not really fussed about any of the PA stuff and I think it's silly to parcel the rules out like that. So I've not bought any of them – I'm quite happy to get by with the rules I have in my Codices.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:

I still prefer them releasing a document fixing errors after each book over them making the same amount of errors and not fixing them like they did in 6th and through most of 7th.

Yep. I think this is absolutely it – most people's proposed "fixes" ignore the fact that what they're doing right now is, at least, practically feasible.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/09 10:10:37


 
   
Made in us
Revving Ravenwing Biker




Hanoi, Vietnam.

 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.
I don't think anyone's failing to realize that that stuff costs money, but ultimately, the costs end with us, the consumers, and these ideas are merely suggestions on how Games Workshop could provide better value to us consumers for that money. Of course, you're reasoning is a fair assessment of why they won't make these improvements, at least not until we as consumers begin to affect Games Workshop's bottom line by collectively refusing to pay any more money until those demands are met. Yet, considering how strong Games Workshop's returns are right now, there's no reason at all to suggest that the consumer base is going to take that stance any time soon. The truth is that most people seem pretty happy with how things are at the moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/09 10:15:45


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.


I still prefer them releasing a document fixing errors after each book over them making the same amount of errors and not fixing them like they did in 6th and through most of 7th.


I prefer them not releasing it all crap in the first place, then they have no need to have the same amount of errors or fix them after.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.


I still prefer them releasing a document fixing errors after each book over them making the same amount of errors and not fixing them like they did in 6th and through most of 7th.


I prefer them not releasing it all crap in the first place, then they have no need to have the same amount of errors or fix them after.

The problem with taking this position is that "crap" is subjective; in particular, if you're using it to mean "anything less than 100% perfect", then good luck with waiting for that to ever happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.
I don't think anyone's failing to realize that that stuff costs money, but ultimately, the costs end with us, the consumers, and these ideas are merely suggestions on how Games Workshop could provide better value to us consumers for that money. Of course, you're reasoning is a fair assessment of why they won't make these improvements, at least not until we as consumers begin to affect Games Workshop's bottom line by collectively refusing to pay any more money until those demands are met. Yet, considering how strong Games Workshop's returns are right now, there's no reason at all to suggest that the consumer base is going to take that stance any time soon. The truth is that most people seem pretty happy with how things are at the moment.

Oh yeah, I think we're largely in agreement here. I mean, sure, I think everyone would prefer that no errors ever crept into these books, but realistically, I don't think anyone should be holding their breath for GW to suddenly expend a lot more resources for relatively little return.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/09 10:25:32


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


I'm completely at a loss here. So expecting a company, a large one to actually do the job right the first time and maybe hire more staff as opposed to run their current employees as if they struggle in a sweat shop, is too much to ask ? I really don't think it is. I don't think expecting something done right the first time is more than anyone should be able to expect from a company that sets their own release schedule, as you point out is doing so well, so they aren't hurting for the money. I don't care how insanely huge their greed is, doing the job right the first time is the ideal solution. No I don't feel sorry for them if it costs them more, hire more staff, or slow the release process down to do it proper with who they have. Maybe, just maybe that would make them more money, as people might feel, ya know the ones who pirate their material, to actually purchase their books as they'd be quality right from the start. They'd feel it wasn't just a lazy attempt at burn and churn or incompetence that the customer, us , has learned so much to accept we just don't bat an eye and literally expect a messed up product every time as opposed to mistakes being a once in a while kind of event.

Why do people accept and in fact cherish lazy, half done work that comes out messed up where even the fixes are broken on release sometimes ( CA ) ? I swear some people look at GW as their own beloved child that is slowly growing, and learning and needs patience because they are trying their best. At some point, you should want better for them, you should want them to improve and not just find a nice agreeable level of fouled up everything will be, without exception. It's madness.
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


I'm completely at a loss here. So expecting a company, a large one to actually do the job right the first time and maybe hire more staff as opposed to run their current employees as if they struggle in a sweat shop, is too much to ask ? I really don't think it is. I don't think expecting something done right the first time is more than anyone should be able to expect from a company that sets their own release schedule, as you point out is doing so well, so they aren't hurting for the money. I don't care how insanely huge their greed is, doing the job right the first time is the ideal solution. No I don't feel sorry for them if it costs them more, hire more staff, or slow the release process down to do it proper with who they have. Maybe, just maybe that would make them more money, as people might feel, ya know the ones who pirate their material, to actually purchase their books as they'd be quality right from the start. They'd feel it wasn't just a lazy attempt at burn and churn or incompetence that the customer, us , has learned so much to accept we just don't bat an eye and literally expect a messed up product every time as opposed to mistakes being a once in a while kind of event.

Why do people accept and in fact cherish lazy, half done work that comes out messed up where even the fixes are broken on release sometimes ( CA ) ? I swear some people look at GW as their own beloved child that is slowly growing, and learning and needs patience because they are trying their best. At some point, you should want better for them, you should want them to improve and not just find a nice agreeable level of fouled up everything will be, without exception. It's madness.

I think you're missing the point here, which is that enough people think the product GW is offering, as it currently is, is of sufficient quality to be willing to pay money for it. If you disagree, then *don't* pay money for it, and that is absolutely your prerogative. But what I'm saying is that incessantly going on about what GW "should" do, and/or actually expecting that to happen, when that would entail them harming themselves *as a business*, is a completely futile exercise.

Would it be nice if no errors whatsoever crept into the books? Absolutely. Is that realistically something that's going to happen? No. Are people happy with this state of affaris? Well that is a matter for them, and they're perfectly entitled to make their future purchasing decisions accordingly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/09 10:44:12


 
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike





AngryAngel80 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
Yes, my comrade here has it. It's absolutely silly so much they put out needs fixing weeks after release that we have come to expect it to be always broken on release however little or large, that is just sad. Sad quality is so low, sadder still we just accept they can't ever just release something right the first time. Lowered expectations indeed. As well lets not even talk about how awful poor it is they need to errata/FAQ a release that is basically charging you for some new missions and Erratas and FAQs that are themselves in need of fixing.


I still prefer them releasing a document fixing errors after each book over them making the same amount of errors and not fixing them like they did in 6th and through most of 7th.


I prefer them not releasing it all crap in the first place, then they have no need to have the same amount of errors or fix them after.


Yeah me too, but IIRC we were both part of a ten page thread about how GW where you're stance was that GW will never manage to do proper releases. This is just the next best thing.

Not fixing errors < fixing errors < not releasing errors

 Daedalus81 wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
Yes, because everyone lines up on the deployment line when facing off against orkz, especially when said orkz are fielding 3 Bonebreakers...which rely exclusively on getting into CC to inflict any kind of actual harm. All of your arguments rely upon your opponent being a brain dead muppet who just lets you maul him.


Yea...that's called board control.
 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 p5freak wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.


That's subjective, i wouldn't.
And i don't think that the presence or not of errors in the books changes significantly the number of books sold.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Spoletta wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.


That's subjective, i wouldn't.
And i don't think that the presence or not of errors in the books changes significantly the number of books sold.

Exactly. They release fewer books in the same amount of time, they make less money. Also, what is an acceptable number of mistakes? Because as the number of mistakes approaches zero, the amount of time required to produce that book vastly increases. If you're saying any amount of mistakes renders the book not worth buying, you're not a potential customer that it makes any amount of business sense pursuing.

Also, I think people on this forum vastly overetimate how many people out there are saying "I'd play 40K, and happily pay a lot more for the books, if only they were completely error-free." As evinced by how well GW's doing at the moment, a pretty significant chunk of people out there are willing to overlook the errors and buy the books.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/09 12:25:37


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Nazrak wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.


That's subjective, i wouldn't.
And i don't think that the presence or not of errors in the books changes significantly the number of books sold.

Exactly. They release fewer books in the same amount of time, they make less money. Also, what is an acceptable number of mistakes? Because as the number of mistakes approaches zero, the amount of time required to produce that book vastly increases. If you're saying any amount of mistakes renders the book not worth buying, you're not a potential customer that it makes any amount of business sense pursuing.

Also, I think people on this forum vastly overetimate how many people out there are saying "I'd play 40K, and happily pay a lot more for the books, if only they were completely error-free." As evinced by how well GW's doing at the moment, a pretty significant chunk of people out there are willing to overlook the errors and buy the books.


That last part is the big problem: Enough people, for whatever reason (ignorance, GW fanboys, who knows) don't care about quality in rules/materials other than miniatures. That's the root of the issue: These people continue to buy and make GW profitable DESPITE the huge issues that any other company would get raked over the coals with, so what reason do they have to do anything better? 8th edition showed how gullible the majority of players were in that they ate up all the smoke & mirrors bullgak GW spewed on their community site, lauded them for pulling their heads out of their asses and using social media like everyone else has the last decade, and in general doing the bare minimum with the game to be able to say "Hey look we changed, see?" like a politician who lies through their teeth to be elected and then goes back and says well I didn't "actually" say I'd do X, I said I'd do Y which sounded very close to doing X; not my fault you misunderstood.

We lost our window for actual change, because that was the leadup to 8th and all it showed GW is that they can still do garbage and be rewarded massively for it.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Wayniac wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.


That's subjective, i wouldn't.
And i don't think that the presence or not of errors in the books changes significantly the number of books sold.

Exactly. They release fewer books in the same amount of time, they make less money. Also, what is an acceptable number of mistakes? Because as the number of mistakes approaches zero, the amount of time required to produce that book vastly increases. If you're saying any amount of mistakes renders the book not worth buying, you're not a potential customer that it makes any amount of business sense pursuing.

Also, I think people on this forum vastly overetimate how many people out there are saying "I'd play 40K, and happily pay a lot more for the books, if only they were completely error-free." As evinced by how well GW's doing at the moment, a pretty significant chunk of people out there are willing to overlook the errors and buy the books.


That last part is the big problem: Enough people, for whatever reason (ignorance, GW fanboys, who knows) don't care about quality in rules/materials other than miniatures. That's the root of the issue: These people continue to buy and make GW profitable DESPITE the huge issues that any other company would get raked over the coals with, so what reason do they have to do anything better? 8th edition showed how gullible the majority of players were in that they ate up all the smoke & mirrors bullgak GW spewed on their community site, lauded them for pulling their heads out of their asses and using social media like everyone else has the last decade, and in general doing the bare minimum with the game to be able to say "Hey look we changed, see?" like a politician who lies through their teeth to be elected and then goes back and says well I didn't "actually" say I'd do X, I said I'd do Y which sounded very close to doing X; not my fault you misunderstood.

We lost our window for actual change, because that was the leadup to 8th and all it showed GW is that they can still do garbage and be rewarded massively for it.

Ah, so it's "everyone else is stupid and enjoying the Hobby wrong and I'm mad about it"? Ok, good luck getting that fixed then.
   
Made in gb
Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

Wayniac wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.


That's subjective, i wouldn't.
And i don't think that the presence or not of errors in the books changes significantly the number of books sold.

Exactly. They release fewer books in the same amount of time, they make less money. Also, what is an acceptable number of mistakes? Because as the number of mistakes approaches zero, the amount of time required to produce that book vastly increases. If you're saying any amount of mistakes renders the book not worth buying, you're not a potential customer that it makes any amount of business sense pursuing.

Also, I think people on this forum vastly overetimate how many people out there are saying "I'd play 40K, and happily pay a lot more for the books, if only they were completely error-free." As evinced by how well GW's doing at the moment, a pretty significant chunk of people out there are willing to overlook the errors and buy the books.


That last part is the big problem: Enough people, for whatever reason (ignorance, GW fanboys, who knows) don't care about quality in rules/materials other than miniatures. That's the root of the issue: These people continue to buy and make GW profitable DESPITE the huge issues that any other company would get raked over the coals with, so what reason do they have to do anything better? 8th edition showed how gullible the majority of players were in that they ate up all the smoke & mirrors bullgak GW spewed on their community site, lauded them for pulling their heads out of their asses and using social media like everyone else has the last decade, and in general doing the bare minimum with the game to be able to say "Hey look we changed, see?" like a politician who lies through their teeth to be elected and then goes back and says well I didn't "actually" say I'd do X, I said I'd do Y which sounded very close to doing X; not my fault you misunderstood.

We lost our window for actual change, because that was the leadup to 8th and all it showed GW is that they can still do garbage and be rewarded massively for it.


I got a big whiff of a "STOP HAVING FUN" vibe from this rant.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Lemondish wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Nazrak wrote:
I think what everyone's failing to realise in terms of their proposed "solutions" to this ("Pull 18-hour workdays playtesting before release!" "Every Codex comes with a voucher for a free, updated-monthly PDF of the rules!" "Hire a small army of editors and proofreaders!") is that they all cost GW more money, in terms of the resources required to implement them, and don't *make* them any more money.


Wrong. Reducing the number of books will reduce the number of errors. An error free product will make them more money, because more people will buy it. I wouldnt mind paying 5 more euros for an error free codex.


That's subjective, i wouldn't.
And i don't think that the presence or not of errors in the books changes significantly the number of books sold.

Exactly. They release fewer books in the same amount of time, they make less money. Also, what is an acceptable number of mistakes? Because as the number of mistakes approaches zero, the amount of time required to produce that book vastly increases. If you're saying any amount of mistakes renders the book not worth buying, you're not a potential customer that it makes any amount of business sense pursuing.

Also, I think people on this forum vastly overetimate how many people out there are saying "I'd play 40K, and happily pay a lot more for the books, if only they were completely error-free." As evinced by how well GW's doing at the moment, a pretty significant chunk of people out there are willing to overlook the errors and buy the books.


That last part is the big problem: Enough people, for whatever reason (ignorance, GW fanboys, who knows) don't care about quality in rules/materials other than miniatures. That's the root of the issue: These people continue to buy and make GW profitable DESPITE the huge issues that any other company would get raked over the coals with, so what reason do they have to do anything better? 8th edition showed how gullible the majority of players were in that they ate up all the smoke & mirrors bullgak GW spewed on their community site, lauded them for pulling their heads out of their asses and using social media like everyone else has the last decade, and in general doing the bare minimum with the game to be able to say "Hey look we changed, see?" like a politician who lies through their teeth to be elected and then goes back and says well I didn't "actually" say I'd do X, I said I'd do Y which sounded very close to doing X; not my fault you misunderstood.

We lost our window for actual change, because that was the leadup to 8th and all it showed GW is that they can still do garbage and be rewarded massively for it.


I got a big whiff of a "STOP HAVING FUN" vibe from this rant.

Indeed. Anyone willing to overlook the issues with some of the rulebooks (by whatever means) and just crack on with having fun *playing a game* is, apparently, in the wrong. Toy spacemen: extremely serious and important business.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/09 13:07:55


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

It is when it constantly excuses a poor product because ooh shiny miniatures. Say what you want but the fact so many people continue to make excuses for GW passing off a shoddy product as an expensive "luxury" one is the real issue here.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran






Wayniac wrote:
It is when it constantly excuses a poor product because ooh shiny miniatures. Say what you want but the fact so many people continue to make excuses for GW passing off a shoddy product as an expensive "luxury" one is the real issue here.

Ok, sure, have fun being mad about it.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Considering GW is swimming in money I am sure they can afford two minimum wage salarys to maintain FAQs and PDFs

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Revered Rogue Psyker





 BaconCatBug wrote:
Considering GW is swimming in money I am sure they can afford two minimum wage salarys to maintain FAQs and PDFs


I'd be happy with one

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