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Isn't one of the theories expressed by the Magos in the book that, given the right circumstances, the Hivemind is not powerful enough to simultaneously control EVERY organism under it's control, and some just...go rogue. Which is why leviathan tries desperately tokill it, because it "interfered" with it's ability to control it's own fleet. Like two Cable towers right next to eachother.

I meant that the idea of leviathan and behemoth meeting up suddenly creating a Tyranid super strain that was massively more powerful. I mean sure they would have some upgrades to share but it seems strange that combining the two would mean certain doom for the galaxy. And if that WAS the case it seems like the Hive Mind would reasonably be doing everything it could to get multiple hive fleets to meet up, which it is not.

Is it the Hive Mind that identified it as the superarmy or other forces making guesses? Lots of Tyranid lore ends up wrong or inaccurate because its not actual stuff written by the faction, but other factions trying to work it out.

 Overread wrote:
Is it the Hive Mind that identified it as the superarmy or other forces making guesses? Lots of Tyranid lore ends up wrong or inaccurate because its not actual stuff written by the faction, but other factions trying to work it out.

It was predicted by a farseer.

Given the widespread nature of all of the main races though its just a bit weird that it requires a combination of 2 different hive fleets to.get orks, elder and human DNA in one place.

 Flinty wrote:
Given the widespread nature of all of the main races though its just a bit weird that it requires a combination of 2 different hive fleets to.get orks, elder and human DNA in one place.

Genetic variation within the different populations could be an explanation.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I meant that the idea of leviathan and behemoth meeting up suddenly creating a Tyranid super strain that was massively more powerful. I mean sure they would have some upgrades to share but it seems strange that combining the two would mean certain doom for the galaxy. And if that WAS the case it seems like the Hive Mind would reasonably be doing everything it could to get multiple hive fleets to meet up, which it is not.

There is always the possibility that the Eldar were wrong, and the two fleets already had gathered many similar genetic lines, and mixing them wouldn't create anything special.

Or that the Eldar has seen something the Tyranids have not seen themselves. When its a premonition from another faction there's always loads of ways it could turn out that don't have to follow the premonition.

 Overread wrote:
Or that the Eldar has seen something the Tyranids have not seen themselves. When its a premonition from another faction there's always loads of ways it could turn out that don't have to follow the premonition.

Perhaps their Dark Eldar allies stole samples of Tyranids from each strand, and their crazed scientists in Commoragh will be the real creators of the supernids from the vision...

nareik wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Or that the Eldar has seen something the Tyranids have not seen themselves. When its a premonition from another faction there's always loads of ways it could turn out that don't have to follow the premonition.

Perhaps their Dark Eldar allies stole samples of Tyranids from each strand, and their crazed scientists in Commoragh will be the real creators of the supernids from the vision...

Something along those lines are strongly hinted at in the novel.

It actually happened, the Dark Eldar mixed both strains for their coliseums.

Also nothing states Farseer is correct, and with the notable numbers of dead Eldars in that battle, it is possible they were deceived by Slaanesh to overreacting.

It is also possible that a small boost in power would be enough for Leviathan to win other battles like Baal or Octarius, causing a domino effect of causality that leads to far worse outcomes.

Tyran wrote:
It actually happened, the Dark Eldar mixed both strains for their coliseums.

No, they just said that it would be possible. And I have a feeling that the harlequins will make sure that it doesn't happen (or that they dont live for long), meaning the farseer was probably right.

It is also possible that a small boost in power would be enough for Leviathan to win other battles like Baal or Octarius, causing a domino effect of causality that leads to far worse outcomes.

Leviathan lost the battle of baal because of the cicatrix maledictum. Nothing could have changed that.

Well, the maledictum and guilliman showing up and help from khorne daemons.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well, the maledictum and guilliman showing up and help from khorne daemons.

The BA's (and friends) were completely and utterly beaten when the maledictum opened, and they were preparing for one last glorious suicide run out into the tyranid swarm. Then the maledictum opened and every single hive ship was either destroyed, or pulled into the warp. So all guilliman did was save the BA's from the groundforces that had survived the psychic shock.

Ka'bandha and friends showed up on baal secounds. Not baal itself.

Tyran wrote:
It actually happened, the Dark Eldar mixed both strains for their coliseums.

Also nothing states Farseer is correct, and with the notable numbers of dead Eldar in that battle, it is possible they were deceived by Slaanesh to overreacting.

It is also possible that a small boost in power would be enough for Leviathan to win other battles like Baal or Octarius, causing a domino effect of causality that leads to far worse outcomes.

There's not really any reason for Slaanesh to make that deception though. Plus the thing was backed up by Harlequins who make a living out of messing with Slaanesh.

 Andersp90 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well, the maledictum and guilliman showing up and help from khorne daemons.

The BA's (and friends) were completely and utterly beaten when the maledictum opened, and they were preparing for one last glorious suicide run out into the tyranid swarm. Then the maledictum opened and every single hive ship was either destroyed, or pulled into the warp. So all guilliman did was save the BA's from the groundforces that had survived the psychic shock.

Ka'bandha and friends showed up on baal secounds. Not baal itself.

Indeed, if they had won a few weeks / day earlier, the whole Blood Angels chapter would have been extinct. It was really a matter of short time before the war on Baal was over

 godardc wrote:
It was really a matter of short time before the war on Baal was over

Were are talking minutes.

pm713 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
It actually happened, the Dark Eldar mixed both strains for their coliseums.

Also nothing states Farseer is correct, and with the notable numbers of dead Eldar in that battle, it is possible they were deceived by Slaanesh to overreacting.

It is also possible that a small boost in power would be enough for Leviathan to win other battles like Baal or Octarius, causing a domino effect of causality that leads to far worse outcomes.

There's not really any reason for Slaanesh to make that deception though. Plus the thing was backed up by Harlequins who make a living out of messing with Slaanesh.

Farseers making mistakes is basically a 40k meme with how often they make everything worse by misreading the future.

Even the Harlequins have their own share of stupid, like that time they attacked the Imperial Palace during the War of the Beast.

Precognition is not a science, even for the Eldar.

Tyran wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
It actually happened, the Dark Eldar mixed both strains for their coliseums.

Also nothing states Farseer is correct, and with the notable numbers of dead Eldar in that battle, it is possible they were deceived by Slaanesh to overreacting.

It is also possible that a small boost in power would be enough for Leviathan to win other battles like Baal or Octarius, causing a domino effect of causality that leads to far worse outcomes.

There's not really any reason for Slaanesh to make that deception though. Plus the thing was backed up by Harlequins who make a living out of messing with Slaanesh.

Farseers making mistakes is basically a 40k meme with how often they make everything worse by misreading the future.

Even the Harlequins have their own share of stupid, like that time they attacked the Imperial Palace during the War of the Beast.

Precognition is not a science, even for the Eldar.

You mean when they broke in, killed a lot of Custodes and got what they wanted anyway?

I thought they were trying to make it to the throne room, and were stopped just short.

More importantly they were claiming that they were coming in peace while slaughtering Custodes, which is not exactly how diplomacy works.

Tyran wrote:
More importantly they were claiming that they were coming in peace while slaughtering Custodes, which is not exactly how diplomacy works.

GW are not good at understanding the concept of diplomacy. Look at Phoenix Rising fluff - they have Eldar murder a planets government, send a diplomat afterwards and they get angry at how stupid humans are because they react badly to someone who just murdered their government turning up at their front door.

That is how US diplomacy has been for hundreds of years, it has a surprising degree of realism.

Remember, realism means having people not only occasionally, but often act in unreasonable, ignorant, and ultimately idiotic ways. Because that is what people in real life do ALL THE TIME.

Tyran wrote:
More importantly they were claiming that they were coming in peace while slaughtering Custodes, which is not exactly how diplomacy works.

Would that be like inviting a general to a peace talk just so you can know where he is to drone strike him?