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Some of the folks over on B&C have been deciphering some of the unit entries from the contents page in the preview video and it looks like loyalists now have a Relic Terminator squad, so probably merging Cataphractii and Tartaros into one data sheet. Wonder which stat line they go with.

Oh, and if csm don't get this, expect salt.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Yikes. We just got through not-fixing the fallout from supplements and they're already going at it.

This looks pretty gross.

Are you really surprised?

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Newman wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
By the way, marines are also getting the HQ limitations.

Max 1 cap and 2 Lt per detachment.
Guess that they are coming for everyone then.

Nice in principle, meaningless in practice.

There's limits as to how many Detachments you can take for point brackets too...so far less meaningless than you might think.

Nah, one Captain and one Lt was the most that it ever made sense to put in a single detachment unless you were do8ng something janky.

The Newman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Newman wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
By the way, marines are also getting the HQ limitations.

Max 1 cap and 2 Lt per detachment.
Guess that they are coming for everyone then.

Nice in principle, meaningless in practice.

There's limits as to how many Detachments you can take for point brackets too...so far less meaningless than you might think.

Nah, one Captain and one Lt was the most that it ever made sense to put in a single detachment unless you were do8ng something janky.

Right. Which is why it matters, because people do janky things with smash captains, tau commanders, tank commanders, etc.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Some of the folks over on B&C have been deciphering some of the unit entries from the contents page in the preview video and it looks like loyalists now have a Relic Terminator squad, so probably merging Cataphractii and Tartaros into one data sheet. Wonder which stat line they go with.

Oh, and if csm don't get this, expect salt.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Yikes. We just got through not-fixing the fallout from supplements and they're already going at it.

This looks pretty gross.

Are you really surprised?

No, not really.

But I didn't expect changes to even further increase the power of CT's so soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Newman wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
By the way, marines are also getting the HQ limitations.

Max 1 cap and 2 Lt per detachment.
Guess that they are coming for everyone then.

Nice in principle, meaningless in practice.

There's limits as to how many Detachments you can take for point brackets too...so far less meaningless than you might think.

Nah, one Captain and one Lt was the most that it ever made sense to put in a single detachment unless you were do8ng something janky.

Right. Which is why it matters, because people do janky things with smash captains, tau commanders, tank commanders, etc.

I don't think IG TC's will be the 1/detach unit. Probably CC's.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Some of the folks over on B&C have been deciphering some of the unit entries from the contents page in the preview video and it looks like loyalists now have a Relic Terminator squad, so probably merging Cataphractii and Tartaros into one data sheet. Wonder which stat line they go with.

Oh, and if csm don't get this, expect salt.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Yikes. We just got through not-fixing the fallout from supplements and they're already going at it.

This looks pretty gross.

Are you really surprised?

No, not really.

But I didn't expect changes to even further increase the power of CT's so soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Newman wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
By the way, marines are also getting the HQ limitations.

Max 1 cap and 2 Lt per detachment.
Guess that they are coming for everyone then.

Nice in principle, meaningless in practice.

There's limits as to how many Detachments you can take for point brackets too...so far less meaningless than you might think.

Nah, one Captain and one Lt was the most that it ever made sense to put in a single detachment unless you were do8ng something janky.

Right. Which is why it matters, because people do janky things with smash captains, tau commanders, tank commanders, etc.

I don't think IG TC's will be the 1/detach unit. Probably CC's.

TC should be - it might be why they did not get a proper pts cost rise?

I don't mind Salamanders getting nerfed even though they're my main army (quite the opposite, marines in general could do with a nerf), but it's pretty hilarious that they are the only chapter who gets nerfed chapter tactics (or at the very least, gets the biggest nerf to their chapter tactic.)

Apparently Salamanders are the best chapter and most in need of a nerf.
I had no idea, but that explains all the Salamander-armies everywhere.

(That last bit was sarcasm.)

nekooni wrote:

IF has to be a mistake from the transcript. Why would CF be 1 extra hit and IF 2?

RG and DA though...

I originally transcribed all these and to me it definitely looks like a 2. I could be wrong though:

 MinscS2 wrote:
I don't mind Salamanders getting nerfed even though they're my main army (quite the opposite, marines in general could do with a nerf), but it's pretty hilarious that they are the only chapter who gets nerfed chapter tactics (or at the very least, gets the biggest nerf to their chapter tactic.)

Apparently Salamanders are the best chapter and most in need of a nerf.
I had no idea, but that explains all the Salamander-armies everywhere.

(That last bit was sarcasm.)

It might be a side-effect of nerfing the "pick your own chapter tactic" where you could reroll one hit & one wound per squad.

Seeing an increase in 3 men squads for Primaris, it might have been too strong of an option, compared to other traits.

I mean, now it is a choice and not a no-brainer anymore, isn't it?

 Aenar wrote:

nekooni wrote:

IF has to be a mistake from the transcript. Why would CF be 1 extra hit and IF 2?

RG and DA though...

I originally transcribed all these and to me it definitely looks like a 2. I could be wrong though:

Spoiler:

I think that's just an artifact. If you use a different frame it looks exactly like the number down in the CF tactic, and to me they look like a 1 most of the time (though I also can see how you'd read the IF one as a 2 in some frames). That's why my argument is based on comparing them to CF - they had the same effect in 8th, why would they change one but not the other. And it's not like IF, of all chapters, needed a buff.

 Mr Morden wrote:


TC should be - it might be why they did not get a proper pts cost rise?

Because TC's are a secondary HQ like a Librarian, Lieutenant, Chaplain, etc. and CC is the captain-equivalent. Should they be 1/? I guess, but so should CC's. Actually, the HQ commitment and allocation in general needs to go down drastically, there's way too many characters as is. Why are 3 Majors [each of whom should command a company of 100 men] leading two platoons between them?

That said, I don't think they [or Leman Russes] need a points cost rise. TC's only need one in relation to regular tanks, which needed the opposite of a points cost rise. And unlike most other vehicles, Leman Russes receive nearly no benefit from the changes to vehicle rules, since they already ignored move/fire penalties on their main gun and can't use their main gun in combat anyway and any benefits that Blast might have are essentially academic.



This isn't about the IG though. As far as things go, seeing a captain restriction is good. I hope to see it rolled out to other factions. Unfortunately, the HQ allocation per battalion is still 2-3, when I think it should be 1-2, but it's a start.

And as far as the CT's go, I've said my piece, I'm suprised that they buffed almost all of them so soon, especially when Space Marines in general just received nerfs that almost certainly weren't enough.

a_typical_hero wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
I don't mind Salamanders getting nerfed even though they're my main army (quite the opposite, marines in general could do with a nerf), but it's pretty hilarious that they are the only chapter who gets nerfed chapter tactics (or at the very least, gets the biggest nerf to their chapter tactic.)

Apparently Salamanders are the best chapter and most in need of a nerf.
I had no idea, but that explains all the Salamander-armies everywhere.

(That last bit was sarcasm.)

It might be a side-effect of nerfing the "pick your own chapter tactic" where you could reroll one hit & one wound per squad.

Seeing an increase in 3 men squads for Primaris, it might have been too strong of an option, compared to other traits.

I mean, now it is a choice and not a no-brainer anymore, isn't it?

Don't see a reason to nerf the FF Chapter Tactic just to reign in a Successor trait when they could've just fixed the Successor traits. Now I'm just even more compelled to go Successor instead of Salamanders, at least if the 3'' Range trait is still around (which hopefully isn't a thing anymore).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


TC should be - it might be why they did not get a proper pts cost rise?

Because TC's are a secondary HQ like a Librarian, Lieutenant, Chaplain, etc. and CC is the captain-equivalent. Should they be 1/? I guess, but so should CC's. Actually, the HQ commitment and allocation in general needs to go down drastically, there's way too many characters as is. Why are 3 Majors [each of whom should command a company of 100 men] leading two platoons between them?

That's because they fethed up the amount of orders the officers can give.

CC - Company of 3 Platoons
PC - Platoon of 3 Squads

So PCs should have 3 orders and the CC should have something different, like give the PCs a buff to their orders (eg. go back to requiring a check for each order, and have the CC grant his PCs a buff or even auto-pass on that)

 MinscS2 wrote:
I don't mind Salamanders getting nerfed even though they're my main army (quite the opposite, marines in general could do with a nerf), but it's pretty hilarious that they are the only chapter who gets nerfed chapter tactics (or at the very least, gets the biggest nerf to their chapter tactic.)

Apparently Salamanders are the best chapter and most in need of a nerf.
I had no idea, but that explains all the Salamander-armies everywhere.

(That last bit was sarcasm.)

You need to look at Iron Hands again. They lost one of the three bonuses they got in the 2nd 8th Edition Codex.

 alextroy wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
I don't mind Salamanders getting nerfed even though they're my main army (quite the opposite, marines in general could do with a nerf), but it's pretty hilarious that they are the only chapter who gets nerfed chapter tactics (or at the very least, gets the biggest nerf to their chapter tactic.)

Apparently Salamanders are the best chapter and most in need of a nerf.
I had no idea, but that explains all the Salamander-armies everywhere.

(That last bit was sarcasm.)

You need to look at Iron Hands again. They lost one of the three bonuses they got in the 2nd 8th Edition Codex.

One of which doesn't affect their Infantry whatsoever.

Spoletta wrote:By the way, marines are also getting the HQ limitations.

Max 1 cap and 2 Lt per detachment.
Guess that they are coming for everyone then.

I wonder what that means to stuff like GMNDKs or armies that don't have Lt level characters.

The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

CF vehicles count as 5 models for the purpose of that tactic. Not the enemy vehicles. It's much less applicable than the DA one - and DA aren't just Ravenwing.

nekooni wrote:
I think that's just an artifact. If you use a different frame it looks exactly like the number down in the CF tactic, and to me they look like a 1 most of the time (though I also can see how you'd read the IF one as a 2 in some frames). That's why my argument is based on comparing them to CF - they had the same effect in 8th, why would they change one but not the other. And it's not like IF, of all chapters, needed a buff.

It does look like a 2 to me

Afaik, vehicles counted as 1 model in 8th; now as 5 which is a buff for the CF trait


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nekooni wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

CF vehicles count as 5 models for the purpose of that tactic. Not the enemy vehicles. It's much less applicable than the DA one - and DA aren't just Ravenwing.

Strange; it would make sense if enemy vehicles counted as 5 also.

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

If it also applies to meele basically means you have your 1+ if you don't consolidate. It is a big buff compared to the old one that basically was not in action 95% of the time. It was basically as not having a subfaction tactic.

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

There's a chaplain on bike coming : with the stoic prosecution littany it could be great for ravenwing.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

There's a chaplain on bike coming : with the stoic prosecution littany it could be great for ravenwing.

Just a chaplain or are they removing their heads from their asses and giving all characters on bikes back?

pm713 wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

There's a chaplain on bike coming : with the stoic prosecution littany it could be great for ravenwing.

Just a chaplain or are they removing their heads from their asses and giving all characters on bikes back?

I hope for the latter, but the way they showed that model off (and all the chaplain details on his limbs, chest and the bike itself), its probably chaplain only.
But there may be 1-3 more kits coming later. Especially lieutenant on bike, of course, but perhaps also captain on bike and librarian on bike.


Also, I'm reading through the Indomitus novel, and this just happened:

The assault ramp of the drop pod pitched open... Boots clanging, he led the Intercessor squad out onto the surface of Orestes III. They were not the first to make planetfall. That honour had fallen to the outrider squad, whose specially modified pod

Thorpe, Gav. Indomitus (Warhammer 40,000) (p. 180). Kindle Edition.

So. Primaris drop pods. Including the new bikes.
Nothing official, model-wise. But its in the novel.
Edit: Oh. Aggressors out of drop pods as well... or they just turned up some other way with no context.

The Judiciar is also referred to as a 'Chaplain in Waiting.' Basically a chaplain lieutenant.

Well now I get to be annoyed at 2 things. Low chance of bike librarian and the knowledge that gav thorpe is wring primaris junk instead of finishing the things he started.

Why do we get AL + 1 and Double additional dakka in 6 's now ?


Why is that acceptable supposedly?

pm713 wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

There's a chaplain on bike coming : with the stoic prosecution littany it could be great for ravenwing.

Just a chaplain or are they removing their heads from their asses and giving all characters on bikes back?

Are we talking about all characters on bikes, or just the ones for loyalists?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

WhiteDog wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
The Dark Angels one sounds tasty at first, but it doesn't seem to synergize well with Ravenwing. Also, staying stationary in 9th edition might have limited applications.

CF trait sounds quite good; being able to get +1 to hit vehicles is a major improvement on their tactic.

There's a chaplain on bike coming : with the stoic prosecution littany it could be great for ravenwing.

Just a chaplain or are they removing their heads from their asses and giving all characters on bikes back?

Are we talking about all characters on bikes, or just the ones for loyalists?

I'm not really familiar with non loyalist characters on bikes unless they're the Eldar Autarch. But I think they should give the rules for bike characters to everyone who should have them.

Doomrider doesn't Ring a Bell pm713?

Heck nearly all csm hq could be Bikers in the past...

That's a lot of Bikers back from Legends.

A very vague bell. I don't see any reason you can't have bikes be a common upgrade for marines (all flavours). They're hardly rare and complex technology and the only reason they seem to have gone is GW weirdness most of the time.

Chapterhouse , not wierdness, sadly..

Not Online!!! wrote:
Chapterhouse , not wierdness, sadly..

Justify to me how Chapterhouse necessitated changes like T'au, Aeldari, Drukhari, the absence of bikes, trueborn, eviscerators on a canoness and so on. Because unless chapterhouse poisoned the GW management and triggered mass brain damage I don't see how they did.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Why do we get AL + 1 and Double additional dakka in 6 's now ?


Why is that acceptable supposedly?

Well the 'double dakka' is transcription error- its the same rules the IF currently have, and the other is actually a nerf from the 'AL +1' the RG already had.

Nothing is going to change there until the next chaos codex.