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Made in is
Courageous Beastmaster




Iceland

 wuestenfux wrote:
Two codices per month would be a fast pace.
Not sure if GW can keep up with it.


Depends on how much work they put into it and if they've increased their staff or not. If they are doing bare minimum to change the codex then it will probably suck, but they can push two out in no time.

Currently I am waiting to see what they do with the Death Guard and Drukhari codexes to make an evaluation.

Cypher | Craftworlds | Drukhari | Dark Angels | Necrons | Emperor's Children(30k/40k) | Tyranids | Orks | Death Guard | Sisters of Battle | Chaos Knights

Daughters of Khaine | Blades of Khorne | Stormcast Eternals | Flesh-Eater Courts | Idoneth Deepkin | The Legion of Chaos Ascendant
 
   
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Fixture of Dakka







 Super Ready wrote:
That's it, I'm gonna start calling this Godwyn's Law instead of Godwin's. The longer a Dakka thread goes on, the more the possibility that someone will complain about Marines approaches 100.%


Guilliman's Law, surely?

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

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United Kingdom

 Eldarsif wrote:
Currently I am waiting to see what they do with the Death Guard and Drukhari codexes to make an evaluation.

There's a rumour (from an admittedly unreliable source) that it's going to a Ynnari Codex with Craftworld / Drukhari / etc. Supplements. I don't play Eldar so I'm not sure how much sense that would make.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 15:02:32


 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

It would make zero sense, from my understanding.

I could see it finally being the Ynnari codex though. There's long been talk of something for it.
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




 Dysartes wrote:
 Super Ready wrote:
That's it, I'm gonna start calling this Godwyn's Law instead of Godwin's. The longer a Dakka thread goes on, the more the possibility that someone will complain about Marines approaches 100.%


Guilliman's Law, surely?


Exalted.

Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

I realise that this aspect isn't news, but could someone explain to me the logic of consolidating the SM factions into a single book . . . only to then release separate codices/supplements for each of them anyway?

Doesn't that just make the whole consolidation entirely pointless? Surely if you're hellbent on releasing separate books for each colour of SM, then you might as well just keep them in separate books?

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I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
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 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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UK

 vipoid wrote:
I realise that this aspect isn't news, but could someone explain to me the logic of consolidating the SM factions into a single book . . . only to then release separate codices/supplements for each of them anyway?

Doesn't that just make the whole consolidation entirely pointless? Surely if you're hellbent on releasing separate books for each colour of SM, then you might as well just keep them in separate books?


The idea is that the marines share a very similar strong core of models. The single book is basically needed as a foundation for each expansion chapter. So GW puts a "taster" of each chapter into the book. That's mostly there for those who might not be Blood Angels players today, but who might experiment with them now and then and get tempted. If they get tempted enough then they get the supplemental book which lets them get access to all the unique BA models and such.


   
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I know everyone's assuming the imperial codex is Dark Angels, but GW never specified January for them--only "early 2021" if I'm not mistaken.

I find it a bit odd that after mentioning DA would be coming in early 2021, that they don't outright say the january codex is DA.

It could very well be AdMech, which has a bazillion new models/units that need added to the codex, plus the new sneak peaked character.

Edit:
Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021.

From the codex show in September.

Still, it's odd that after saying that, that they don't just tell us in the new update that DA is the one coming out in January.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 16:36:43


 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




 vipoid wrote:
I realise that this aspect isn't news, but could someone explain to me the logic of consolidating the SM factions into a single book . . . only to then release separate codices/supplements for each of them anyway?

Doesn't that just make the whole consolidation entirely pointless? Surely if you're hellbent on releasing separate books for each colour of SM, then you might as well just keep them in separate books?


It means just updating wargear and common units once. There is a long, long history of some subfactions lagging behind with out of date rules or completely different design philosophies (*cough* DA *cough*).
Not to mention the PA fiasco that just happened.

It isn't perfect, but its better than anything they've tried before.
I'm not convinced its the best solution, but its functional.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Right behind you.

Dark Angels was specified as the first codex of 2021.

AdMech is probably going to be fairly early next year, but once Dark Angels and if a Black Templars book drops? They're done with Marine supplements until they redo the original ones.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Black Templars are definitely in an odd place at present, that's for sure.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
Dark Angels was specified as the first codex of 2021.


From https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/12/the-codex-show/:

Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021.


Technically they said it would come along with the first Xenos codex. That's why it's odd that they're now not explicitly stating that the January codex is DA.

Could be they poorly worded that and meant the first Xenos codex would be in 2021. Saying it's the first xenos codex "of 2021" kind of implies there would be at least one in 2020.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/16 16:45:31


 
   
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Stevenage, UK

 Dysartes wrote:
 Super Ready wrote:
That's it, I'm gonna start calling this Godwyn's Law instead of Godwin's. The longer a Dakka thread goes on, the more the possibility that someone will complain about Marines approaches 100.%

Guilliman's Law, surely?

Nice! But, no... Godwyn after the bolter pattern.


"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
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Right behind you.

Quasistellar wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Dark Angels was specified as the first codex of 2021.


From https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/12/the-codex-show/:

Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021.


Technically they said it would come along with the first Xenos codex. That's why it's odd that they're now not explicitly stating that the January codex is DA.

It's really not though. This is the problem that comes up with regards to how GW previews things. There's effectively two 'levels' of previews going on.

-Previews for 'dedicated' fans. These are the kinds of previews where it's the livestreams and the Warhammer Community page, where things are discussed fairly in-depth. That's where they stated it was going to be the first Codex of 2021.
-Previews for the 'everyday' fans. These are things like the rumor roundup setups after a livestream on the article and the Facebook/Twitter postings, where it breaks down things without making it time consuming.

The problem is that both of those pale in comparison to leaks or the 'rumormonger' experience that people like us on forums have. It's effectively three different worlds and it is quite irritating to me hearing people constantly complaining about how it's "odd" that they don't call things out after making a rough set of commitments.
There's also manufacturing & distribution factors to consider. It's one thing to 'know' that "Hey, this is the next book coming!".
It's a whole other thing to have them say "Okay, this book is ready to go and we're committed to making it a January release!".
We're seeing comments about that right now in the preview thread for Saturday, with complaints about GW potentially previewing Direchasm(a known product) and Blood Bowl's second season(a leaked product that they released preview material for early).

Could be they poorly worded that and meant the first Xenos codex would be in 2021. Saying it's the first xenos codex "of 2021" kind of implies there would be at least one in 2020.

There was. That book is Necrons.

The roadmap explicitly is post Space Marines and Necrons.
Now that Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Necrons are both available, we thought we’d share with you the roadmap for the next codex releases. It’s a very exciting time for all fans of Warhammer 40,000!
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 wuestenfux wrote:
Two codices per month would be a fast pace.
Not sure if GW can keep up with it.


If I was being really cynical I’d predict one Codex & 1 SM supplement per month...

DA in Jan, perhaps BT in Feb, UM in Mar, and so on...

Means they can keep pumping out Marine new shinies for the monies while not needing a whole 2 Codex/month worth of resource.

Would keep them going until Aug...
   
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There’s a fast pace at the minute because the codexes they are releasing are all for armies that either have new models or aren’t going to get new models. And are supplements really codexes?

I think it will slow down but hopefully that means new models to go with them.
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
Nice! But, no... Godwyn after the bolter pattern.


Gowdyn-De'az > Godwyn

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https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
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Quasistellar wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Dark Angels was specified as the first codex of 2021.


From https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/12/the-codex-show/:

Dark Angels fans won’t have to wait much longer – your codex supplement will be on its way early next year, along with the first xenos codex of 2021.


Technically they said it would come along with the first Xenos codex. That's why it's odd that they're now not explicitly stating that the January codex is DA.

Could be they poorly worded that and meant the first Xenos codex would be in 2021. Saying it's the first xenos codex "of 2021" kind of implies there would be at least one in 2020.


You're overthinking it way too much, to the point that you're ignoring books that just happened, and how GW previews things.
They're not going to name drop a book and then save it for later, after unannounced products.

There is a slight exception here as they know players get attached to specific color sub-factions. And they want that, as it gives players a reason to buy the general codex, and all the new toys that they can use. But they want to keep the supplements somewhat together, or it will convince people to save money and buy everything later (and maybe change their mind and not buy anything at all).

GW targets it's previews at getting folks to spend money now. The specific target here is even though DA are last, they currently have stuff to buy, but the xenos codex remains a mystery, becuase those players might buy marines or necrons instead, and maybe still buy the new xenos in January once that becomes a reality. It's all about timing people's spending.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Two codexes a month is not really a fast pace. It's still going to be a year or more before you have an even playing field amongst all armies.

If I'm going 5mph and I double it to 10mph, I doubled my speed but I'm still driving ridiculously slow.

GW's release schedule is still ridiculously slow. If you are one of the codexes that will be released on the back end of this, waiting a year while everybody else gets to play with their new toys is a long time.

Just because they used to be slower doesn't mean they are fast now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 19:23:44


 
   
Made in de
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 dotcomee wrote:
Two codexes a month is not really a fast pace. It's still going to be a year or more before you have an even playing field amongst all armies.

If I'm going 5mph and I double it to 10mph, I doubled my speed but I'm still driving ridiculously slow.

GW's release schedule is still ridiculously slow. If you are one of the codexes that will be released on the back end of this, waiting a year while everybody else gets to play with their new toys is a long time.

Just because they used to be slower doesn't mean they are fast now.

That is correct. Still you will get there twice as fast as before. Which is an improvement.
   
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Some are more pressing than others. Sisters are fine and should be way at the end of the line. Same with Harlequins really.
Chaos need a book quickly as the 2W marine issue is glaring while chaos has no book.
I'm not familiar enough with Orks, Tau, and nids to rank their needs.
Eldar need a big release this edition with a book that manages internal balance more effectively.
Not sure on guard but I do think we're going to see some Catachans this edition.
   
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 bullyboy wrote:

I'm not familiar enough with Orks, Tau, and nids to rank their needs.


That's OK, I don't think GW is either...
   
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'Jack Scrapper





Austria

Quasistellar wrote:

Could be they poorly worded that and meant the first Xenos codex would be in 2021. Saying it's the first xenos codex "of 2021" kind of implies there would be at least one in 2020.

like Necrons?

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

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 dotcomee wrote:
Two codexes a month is not really a fast pace. It's still going to be a year or more before you have an even playing field amongst all armies.

If I'm going 5mph and I double it to 10mph, I doubled my speed but I'm still driving ridiculously slow.

GW's release schedule is still ridiculously slow. If you are one of the codexes that will be released on the back end of this, waiting a year while everybody else gets to play with their new toys is a long time.

Just because they used to be slower doesn't mean they are fast now.
2 per month is already a speed that can only be done if the codexes are already finished. Your not going to write, test, revise, test and revise again an entire codex in under 2 weeks (and yes, I'm sure someone will make the joke GW doesn't test).
   
Made in us
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 dotcomee wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:

I'm not familiar enough with Orks, Tau, and nids to rank their needs.


That's OK, I don't think GW is either...


Haha, nice one centurion, nice one.
   
Made in at
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Austria

 Ordana wrote:
2 per month is already a speed that can only be done if the codexes are already finished. Your not going to write, test, revise, test and revise again an entire codex in under 2 weeks (and yes, I'm sure someone will make the joke GW doesn't test).

we don't really know if they test or not, but from the simple errors we get with their books it is likely that there is not more than one revise (if any at all)

so it would be, write the concept, test to proof it and print it, but this is not the time saving thing that would make it possible

the one point you are missing is the time needed to print the books and this takes 6 months (to print enough for a worldwide release and ship it to the different warehouses)
which mean that the books we are going to see end of January went to the printer 2 months ago at the beginning of August and it is more likely that the Marine Supplements were all already finished way earlier together with the main Codex and they just stretch the release and we see only 2 "new" books that were written after

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
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 kodos wrote:
Quasistellar wrote:

Could be they poorly worded that and meant the first Xenos codex would be in 2021. Saying it's the first xenos codex "of 2021" kind of implies there would be at least one in 2020.

like Necrons?


Touche, and I even own the codex, LOL. Just came in the mail yesterday--I got caught up in the image presented showing upcoming stuff.

Still does not explain why they would announce DA is coming with the first xenos codex in 2021, then a month later pretend they don't know what's coming with the first xenos codex in 2021. It doesn't make sense! I'm just putting this out there because everyone is saying as a matter of fact that DA will be in January, when GW's most recent update does in fact not say that.

Just don't want DA players to get TOO salty IF their codex is not released at that time.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 kodos wrote:
Quasistellar wrote:

Could be they poorly worded that and meant the first Xenos codex would be in 2021. Saying it's the first xenos codex "of 2021" kind of implies there would be at least one in 2020.

like Necrons?


maybe he thinks necrons are space marines?

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




 Ordana wrote:
 dotcomee wrote:
Two codexes a month is not really a fast pace. It's still going to be a year or more before you have an even playing field amongst all armies.

If I'm going 5mph and I double it to 10mph, I doubled my speed but I'm still driving ridiculously slow.

GW's release schedule is still ridiculously slow. If you are one of the codexes that will be released on the back end of this, waiting a year while everybody else gets to play with their new toys is a long time.

Just because they used to be slower doesn't mean they are fast now.
2 per month is already a speed that can only be done if the codexes are already finished. Your not going to write, test, revise, test and revise again an entire codex in under 2 weeks (and yes, I'm sure someone will make the joke GW doesn't test).


That... really doesn't interact with how writing and publishing works. Yes, every book we know about is already done. Even the January books have been finalized and the printer has the final copy in some stage of printing (even if its just queued up) at this point.
But this is a continuous cycle. The folks on Necrons and SM moved to the next ones in turn months ago, and then again, and so on into the future.

All that's really needed to do two books a month [efficiently] is two writing teams and two editing teams (though honestly editors are likely a shared pool at GW). Maybe a third team if you really want to solve or avoid backlog problems.
It also helps that the supplements are easy. The background is largely copypasta and rewording at this point, and the snowflake datasheets are just variants of the main codex datasheets with some tweaks (Grey Hunters are tacticals with <rule> and two special weapons rather than heavy and special). That's dead simple 9 editions in.

Also keep in mind that the books would have started quite a ways back, overlapping with the new edition. Especially for background writing and art orders (and sorting through the existing art library). There was plenty of time to start creating a generous timeline without approaching anything like 'two weeks on each book'. It'd be several months each with different stages, especially since new rules require waiting on new model designs to be finished. But nothing stops the background and art from being worked on well ahead of rules, and that's half the book close to ready.

As projects go, a 40k codex is fairly simple, and the jobs don't overlap much. Background writing is largely done, and either involves tweaks or not violating established material. Layout of art and page format is a different job. Rules are another, and again its a lot of rephrasing or copying old material, with a variable amount of new. Points are basically tweaking a baseline with (hopefully) several stages of review and revision. Editing would (hopefully) involve 2-3 people. You can do a decent job with a half-dozen people on each book, with some roles overlapping for both books slated for a particular release window.

(And also note, we have little idea of how much got moved around this year. Books are done in China, models in Britain, and Covid related obstacles hit those regions at different times, for different lengths of time). Two a month, every month may not have been the original schedule. And may reasonably not stay the schedule (though they should make that clear, since people are going to start expecting it after four months in a row)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 21:33:34


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Right behind you.

GW was apparently trying to get stuff on site for printing as recently as last year. I think some of the smaller books have been done that way.
   
 
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