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Made in us
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




Frame of reference:
Current DA, SW, BA codexes- 144 pages
Ultramarines Supplement (currently has the most datasheets)- 80 pages

consider that the supplements can remove the common datasheets (most vehicles, quite a few squads), and the obligatory 'what is a space marine' and common history sections.

Current Death Guard codex- 104 pages (DG don't have access to a lot of chaos datasheets)

I'd expect the new supplements to be 96 or 104 pages. There are a lot of areas they can save space compared to the previous versions, but the snowflake chapters have a good chunk of datasheets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 20:13:07


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







If you look carefully, Karol, you can see that the Deathwatch book says "Codex Supplement Deathwatch", with the SW and BA books having the same two words above the main title.

In contrast, the Death Guard book just has "Codex" above the main title.

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When the edition dropped I remember GW posted a video teasing an assortment of upcoming models. While the order may or may not be significant, the first model shown was from the Deathguard followed by a Wych, Skitarii, Ork(Boy?), and Battle Sister Palatine.

I expect Admech will probably the Imperial release for January (discounting supplements). They have a lot of dataslates floating around that could benefit from being condensed into a new book and they already had army-wide mechanics in previous books (Dogma Imperatives and Canticles) so they probably won't require as significant a rewrite as some of the others (like say Tyranids). They also just had a fairly significant wave of releases, so in theory that could save some release space for whatever the Xenos release ends up being.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 22:20:30


 
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






 Dysartes wrote:
 Brutallica wrote:
World Eaters Codex at January, yes please (not gonna happen)

But yeah its probably Tau that is 'redacted'. Because GW loooooooves their Tau.

Chaos Space Marines can be expected in 2021... nice :(


...you do realise that 2021 is less than three months away at this point, right?

And that the only full Codex left to be released in 2020... is a Chaos SM book, right?


You do realize there is still a ton of army books on the list for the 2021 card? So 3 months is very optimistic.

Only codex left to be released is the ones i play, demons and chaos space marines yes, couldnt really care for anyone else since ive been stuck in a super shooty edition for over 3 years with vast majority of them being predictable game losses at turn 2/3 as a khorne player. So yeah, my patience is abit low.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 22:17:28


6000 World Eaters/Khorne

7000 Space Wolves 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Voss wrote:
Frame of reference:
Current DA, SW, BA codexes- 144 pages
Ultramarines Supplement (currently has the most datasheets)- 80 pages

consider that the supplements can remove the common datasheets (most vehicles, quite a few squads), and the obligatory 'what is a space marine' and common history sections.

Current Death Guard codex- 104 pages (DG don't have access to a lot of chaos datasheets)

I'd expect the new supplements to be 96 or 104 pages. There are a lot of areas they can save space compared to the previous versions, but the snowflake chapters have a good chunk of datasheets.


Let's look at space wolves (as they're proably going to be the biggest supplement by virtue of having the mot unique stuff) and try to make a guess..


ok, so you'll have a overleaf and a TOC (2 pages)
an introduction (page 3)
A "summery of whom they are" that is 2 pages (5)
a 2 page overview of Fenris (7)
A chapter orginization page that discusses the lay out of the chapter and gives a detailed summery of the 12 great companies. we'll assume 14 pages (21)
10 pages of history like the Ultramarines get (31 pages)
It's an open question if space wolves get a unit fluff write up since the codices seem to be moving away from that I'll assume they don't. however each character will likely get a one page write up. so that's 11 pages (42)
1 page of general rules including a super doctrine (42)
1 page of warlord traits (44)
2 Pages of Relics (45)
2 Pages of strats (47)
1 Page of rune preist Powers (48)
20 pages of datasheets (I'm assuming the layout'd be about what the index is) (68)
1 Page of Weapon profiles (69)
2 pages of points costs(20)
1 Page of random names, clearly the most important part of the book! (71)

So bare minimum I'm expecting just over 70 pages for the space wolves codex.

that said, they could easily expand that a vbit if they do give a full page of fluff write up for the space wolf exclusive units.
I also expect the new supplements to have some addtional crusade rules (maybe something to represent a unit falling to the curse of the wulfen?)

So, I figure the new supplements will be about 80 pages once you include art, etc

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 22:18:35


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

If they keep up with two codices per month, unless I'm fudging my mental math that means we should have all codices before a full year has passed.

Given the lead times involved in typesetting, editing, and print production, that would lend some credence to the rumor that 9th Ed playtesters were working with 9th Ed codex rules for each faction.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 catbarf wrote:
If they keep up with two codices per month, unless I'm fudging my mental math that means we should have all codices before a full year has passed.

Given the lead times involved in typesetting, editing, and print production, that would lend some credence to the rumor that 9th Ed playtesters were working with 9th Ed codex rules for each faction.


makes one wonder if the 8.5 marine codex was a beta codex for 9th that was released early more as a test to see how quickly they can put out books.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'm terrified of what they'd do to 'Nids...

Anyway, I'm thinking DA and GSC for this release.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Dang.. was thinking id see some actual news.
Looks like 2 a month... ugh...

So about a year from now we might have waited and seen eh ?

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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 catbarf wrote:
If they keep up with two codices per month, unless I'm fudging my mental math that means we should have all codices before a full year has passed.

Given the lead times involved in typesetting, editing, and print production, that would lend some credence to the rumor that 9th Ed playtesters were working with 9th Ed codex rules for each faction.


It would be great if after releasing all the codex they let us 3-4 years to play with them without changing and adding new rules (With the exception of new units) and bonuses and doing just balance changes. But for being a model company GW really likes making money selling rules that last 6 months-1 year so sadly it wont happen.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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 BaconCatBug wrote:


My guess is Dark Angels and Nids for January.


nothing like having 5 of the first 6 releases being flavors of SM.

If at first you don't succeed then Sky Diving isn't for you. 
   
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SemperMortis wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:


My guess is Dark Angels and Nids for January.


nothing like having 5 of the first 6 releases being flavors of SM.


They just want to get them out of the way so they can focus on other armie-.. hahahahaaa Sorry i couldn't finish that sentence.

Anyway. I think you are selfish. The real tragedy is that some colours of marines have lost their snowlakiest of the snowflakey rules for like a month..

I mean can you imagine having to wait for rules!?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SemperMortis wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:


My guess is Dark Angels and Nids for January.


nothing like having 5 of the first 6 releases being flavors of SM.


nothing like acting like this is news we've not known about for months.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

That's it, I'm gonna start calling this Godwyn's Law instead of Godwin's. The longer a Dakka thread goes on, the more the possibility that someone will complain about Marines approaches 100.%

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
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 Argive wrote:


They just want to get them out of the way so they can focus on other armie-.. hahahahaaa Sorry i couldn't finish that sentence.

Anyway. I think you are selfish. The real tragedy is that some colours of marines have lost their snowlakiest of the snowflakey rules for like a month..

I mean can you imagine having to wait for rules!?


I've veered away from much of Marine stuff (crons'ing it now) but changing to supplemental codexes for all the formerly dedicated dex chapters probably made their update a lot easier to do. I'm guessing they wouldn't be this soon otherwise, which would also have probably left these supplement months codexless. I'm suggesting that it's not a significant loss to the dex timeline for non-marines and add that it's will boost their EoY numbers.

-b-

GSC needs help, but is that the right choice as the second xeno dex for 9e? Over Orks/Eldar/Tau?
   
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 Super Ready wrote:
That's it, I'm gonna start calling this Godwyn's Law instead of Godwin's. The longer a Dakka thread goes on, the more the possibility that someone will complain about Marines approaches 100.%




My education between 5th and 7th is limited, as I was not involved with the game then: When were Tau overpowered and for how long?

I ask because I know that there are still people who hate them for how OP they used to be... And I'm guessing 50% of players weren't Tau.

Though no fault of most of their players, I suspect it's gonna be a lonnnnnng time before people are done crapping on Marines, and the longer they stay comparatively OP, the longer that period's gonna last. Just releasing Marine stuff early on is gonna add months to that.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

SemperMortis wrote:
nothing like having 5 of the first 6 releases being flavors of SM.
You're the first person to point this out, I think. Man... I hadn't even noticed that until you brought it to light.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Cap'n Failboat wrote:
 Argive wrote:


They just want to get them out of the way so they can focus on other armie-.. hahahahaaa Sorry i couldn't finish that sentence.

Anyway. I think you are selfish. The real tragedy is that some colours of marines have lost their snowlakiest of the snowflakey rules for like a month..

I mean can you imagine having to wait for rules!?


I've veered away from much of Marine stuff (crons'ing it now) but changing to supplemental codexes for all the formerly dedicated dex chapters probably made their update a lot easier to do. I'm guessing they wouldn't be this soon otherwise, which would also have probably left these supplement months codexless. I'm suggesting that it's not a significant loss to the dex timeline for non-marines and add that it's will boost their EoY numbers.

-b-

GSC needs help, but is that the right choice as the second xeno dex for 9e? Over Orks/Eldar/Tau?


Did make it easier to update though ? I see very little difference between a codex and a supplement other than you need the former in order to use the latter so its clearly GWs way of selling you two books where you could have been done with 1. I get that means data sheets would be repeated over and over but if thats a problem than do these codexes/supplements need to exist in the first place if one codex will do and do fine for everyone else? Having supplements over codexes does not stop any errors/rules face palm when GW is involved so its all potatoes patatos...
Its just bloat.. I certainly don't want other races to have to get supplements also.. We went through PA once already.

I agree I think Nids/GSC/Tau/ORKS (in that order) are in the most dire need of a rules overhaul. Drastically so..
Eldar are like the strongest of the unwanted children living out in the forest.. Completely forgotten they can fend for themselves for a little while longer..

Also DE/Quins/Tau could do with some fresh plastic above the others so I susepct they will get an actual release of stuff? I know its mad.. but just maybe we wont see another SM lt mini and DE will get a HQ or two..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 00:19:08


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





To prove 2020 could get worse the release schedule is only marines.

Last two books are Dark Angels and Legions of the Damned.
   
Made in us
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps




 Brutallica wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 Brutallica wrote:
World Eaters Codex at January, yes please (not gonna happen)

But yeah its probably Tau that is 'redacted'. Because GW loooooooves their Tau.

Chaos Space Marines can be expected in 2021... nice :(


...you do realise that 2021 is less than three months away at this point, right?

And that the only full Codex left to be released in 2020... is a Chaos SM book, right?


You do realize there is still a ton of army books on the list for the 2021 card? So 3 months is very optimistic.

Well, October is half over. The year 2020 really does end after December, so 'less than 3 months' left is perfectly accurate, not optimistic.

Only codex left to be released is the ones i play, demons and chaos space marines yes, couldnt really care for anyone else since ive been stuck in a super shooty edition for over 3 years with vast majority of them being predictable game losses at turn 2/3 as a khorne player. So yeah, my patience is abit low.

Um. The edition is only 3 months old at this point. We just got the _first_ two codex releases.
We don't really have any idea where any codex slots into the release order after the marine supplement, Death Guard then DA and a Xenos book in January.

Regardless of how patient you are (or aren't), non-DG chaos isn't coming until February at the earliest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 01:36:04


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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 Argive wrote:

Did make it easier to update though ? I see very little difference between a codex and a supplement other than you need the former in order to use the latter so its clearly GWs way of selling you two books where you could have been done with 1. I get that means data sheets would be repeated over and over but if thats a problem than do these codexes/supplements need to exist in the first place if one codex will do and do fine for everyone else? Having supplements over codexes does not stop any errors/rules face palm when GW is involved so its all potatoes patatos...
Its just bloat.. I certainly don't want other races to have to get supplements also.. We went through PA once already.


Sorry. I wasn't clear.

I wouldn't have advocated for the "snowflakes" to revert to supplements (I suffered from that back in the early-mid '00s). I actually hated the PA schedule too. Too many gakking books just make having the right rules more confusing for newer players and expensive for everyone. However, they made the decision to turn them into supplements, period.

Then, as crap as they are with balance, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt in that they looked into C:SM interactions with the snowflakes' rules when finalizing C:SM. At that point; compiling fluff, art, rules, unique datasheets is mostly done. The biggest investment of effort is adapting changes for the new mechanics (core/auras/command upgrades) to the unique units and defining how each supplement interacts with what's in C:SM...and maybe new character/units here and there. Basically, I'm guessing that it's limited effort, limited interruption with the remaining schedule of dex releases, and a possible boost to numbers right before the end of the calendar year.

There's also an argument for those book's need since the adjustment from dex to supplement does have its issues. I haven't even bothered to look at how it works with my SW right now, as I haven't even picked up the new C:SM dex, and have been focusing on crons. Altogether, I know there are issues present, I just don't know what they all are and how interruptive (read: strong & valid) that argument is.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Argive wrote:
Cap'n Failboat wrote:
 Argive wrote:


They just want to get them out of the way so they can focus on other armie-.. hahahahaaa Sorry i couldn't finish that sentence.

Anyway. I think you are selfish. The real tragedy is that some colours of marines have lost their snowlakiest of the snowflakey rules for like a month..

I mean can you imagine having to wait for rules!?


I've veered away from much of Marine stuff (crons'ing it now) but changing to supplemental codexes for all the formerly dedicated dex chapters probably made their update a lot easier to do. I'm guessing they wouldn't be this soon otherwise, which would also have probably left these supplement months codexless. I'm suggesting that it's not a significant loss to the dex timeline for non-marines and add that it's will boost their EoY numbers.

-b-

GSC needs help, but is that the right choice as the second xeno dex for 9e? Over Orks/Eldar/Tau?


Did make it easier to update though ? I see very little difference between a codex and a supplement other than you need the former in order to use the latter so its clearly GWs way of selling you two books where you could have been done with 1. I get that means data sheets would be repeated over and over but if thats a problem than do these codexes/supplements need to exist in the first place if one codex will do and do fine for everyone else? Having supplements over codexes does not stop any errors/rules face palm when GW is involved so its all potatoes patatos...
Its just bloat.. I certainly don't want other races to have to get supplements also.. We went through PA once already.

I agree I think Nids/GSC/Tau/ORKS (in that order) are in the most dire need of a rules overhaul. Drastically so..
Eldar are like the strongest of the unwanted children living out in the forest.. Completely forgotten they can fend for themselves for a little while longer..

Also DE/Quins/Tau could do with some fresh plastic above the others so I susepct they will get an actual release of stuff? I know its mad.. but just maybe we wont see another SM lt mini and DE will get a HQ or two..


long term it DID make them easier to update, once the supplements are out of the way all marines can be updated at once, no more one space marine uses differant rules from another space marine because his codex is 2 editions out of date etc.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
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Annandale, VA

H.B.M.C. wrote:I'm terrified of what they'd do to 'Nids...

Anyway, I'm thinking DA and GSC for this release.


Ah, whatever, only the masochists among us remain. In the transition to 9th our only good troops choice got a points hike and susceptibility to Blast and half of us were just like harder, daddy. We're the community equivalent of Drukhari Wracks. Desensitized to suffering.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if it is DA + Nids, although DA + GSC seems plausible too. For whatever reason Tyranids were early in the release cycle for 8th.

Galas wrote:It would be great if after releasing all the codex they let us 3-4 years to play with them without changing and adding new rules (With the exception of new units) and bonuses and doing just balance changes. But for being a model company GW really likes making money selling rules that last 6 months-1 year so sadly it wont happen.


Yeah. It would. I do kind of think that if they're getting all the codices out early, then that will provide a reasonable baseline for clubs to say 'alright, no new gak' for a while. No new Vigilus battles, or Psychic Reawakenings, or whatever other junk comes out.

If they do another community survey, I'm going to say the same thing I did last time- I'm done buying books that are invalid in two years.

Anyways, I wonder how all this dovetails with the Imperial Armour books that were supposed to come out at some point. They've been curiously missing.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Didn't GW tease an Ork mini coming up? between that and Ghaz needing a solo release, Orks seem a safe bet

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
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BrianDavion wrote:
Didn't GW tease an Ork mini coming up? between that and Ghaz needing a solo release, Orks seem a safe bet


They did, the video at the bottom of this page, all the way back in July:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/25/the-warhammer-40000-launch-party-preview/0720

The DG character is there, a dark eldar gladiator (or Lylyth), an Ad Mech character, an ork, and a Sister Palantine.

Given that we're seeing the DG character with that new codex, and the January codex* is definitely Xenos, Dark Eldar or Ork seem most likely.

*as opposed to the supplement.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/10/16 03:17:04


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
Didn't GW tease an Ork mini coming up? between that and Ghaz needing a solo release, Orks seem a safe bet
Shut up with that perfectly reasonable logic and well-considered reasoning! We'll have none of that here!!!

Clearly it's going to be Codex: Imperial Agents and Codex: Hrudd Migrations.

   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Didn't GW tease an Ork mini coming up? between that and Ghaz needing a solo release, Orks seem a safe bet
Shut up with that perfectly reasonable logic and well-considered reasoning! We'll have none of that here!!!

Clearly it's going to be Codex: Imperial Agents and Codex: Hrudd Migrations.


ohh I think you're onto something about imperial agents, but we know it's xenos...
CODEX JOKERO CONFIRMED!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voss wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Didn't GW tease an Ork mini coming up? between that and Ghaz needing a solo release, Orks seem a safe bet


They did, the video at the bottom of this page, all the way back in July:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/25/the-warhammer-40000-launch-party-preview/0720

The DG character is there, a dark eldar gladiator (or Lylyth), an Ad Mech character, an ork, and a Sister Palantine.

Given that we're seeing the DG character with that new codex, and the January codex* is definitely Xenos, Dark Eldar or Ork seem most likely.

*as opposed to the supplement.


DA and Orks in late jan/early febuary, Sisters and dark eldar in spring?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/16 04:36:38


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Dysartes wrote:
If you look carefully, Karol, you can see that the Deathwatch book says "Codex Supplement Deathwatch", with the SW and BA books having the same two words above the main title.

In contrast, the Death Guard book just has "Codex" above the main title.


GW can call their stuff what ever they want, that is true. They called the thing my dudes got in 8th a codex too, but it sure as hell wasn't one till PA came out.

But in the end it is just that names, what is important is how optional the books are going to be, if someone wants to play BA or SW. if it is a 104 book at full codex cost, with just a few characters, relics and maybe a psychic power school and people have to get the unit rules from the SM codex, then it is going to be really unfun. Specialy if the supplements end up costing almost or as much as a codex.

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My lovely bugs are probably going to be one of the last codici in the line.

In the preview models none of them was a bug, so we are in for the long wait.
Good thing about that is that it could potentially come with a massive necron style release.
   
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Hamburg

Two codices per month would be a fast pace.
Not sure if GW can keep up with it.

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