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 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

Yeah but since the armies that they're meant to be part of are so different (that's the whole point of the separation), you're severely limiting what can go in the box if you want to even attempt to make a product that's suitable for all of them. This theoretical baseline marine box that's supposed to appeal to all marine players, no matter their subfaction, would be so vanilla and generic that this alone would make it an unsuccessful product that generated more complaints than good will (if that's even possible, considering our community).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I supposed all those start collecting boxes for other factions are something I imagined. Right?

I didn't say no other factions had any. I said some other factions had none. Show me the Start Collecting Sisters of Battle box, for instance.


!

So sisters are special snowflake deserving more than others? Seeing　so far they haven't been treated worse than others(new faction gets sc year minimum after　start) if you are complaining about lack of sister sc logically you think sisters deserve　to be extra　special


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

So no upgrade sprues, no blood angel whatever in box and　same price is what you want. Gotcha. Not sure　how that's better but each to his own.

 Super Ready wrote:
Only one example, for an army that only had its refresh a year ago, meaning GW are probably still keen to get people buying the boxes at full price.

Marines just got a refresh too.
Did you miss it?
And before that... they had another refresh!

 Super Ready wrote:
It's not exactly evidence of "Marine favouritism", if anything it would be evidence of Sisters discrimination.

No other faction got 8 boxes either .

 Super Ready wrote:
Do you have any other examples?

Sure: harlequins, custodes. I want to add knight and chaos knight but then that'll be the best kind of correct but a little silly .

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing　so far they haven't been treated worse than others(new faction gets sc year minimum after　start)

This makes no sense. Marines are brand new and getting a Combat Patrol right now!

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

Most starting customers wouldn’t know that, nor does it make a good add-on sale for retail staff if the stuff on the cover is themed differently.

That’s just not how sales work. The „legality“ of the miniatures with other, differently themed sales pamphlets (e.g. „rules“) is not a major factor.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Only one example, for an army that only had its refresh a year ago, meaning GW are probably still keen to get people buying the boxes at full price.

Marines just got a refresh too.
Did you miss it?
And before that... they had another refresh!

 Super Ready wrote:
It's not exactly evidence of "Marine favouritism", if anything it would be evidence of Sisters discrimination.

No other faction got 8 boxes either .

 Super Ready wrote:
Do you have any other examples?

Sure: harlequins, custodes. I want to add knight and chaos knight but then that'll be the best kind of correct but a little silly .

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing　so far they haven't been treated worse than others(new faction gets sc year minimum after　start)

This makes no sense. Marines are brand new and getting a Combat Patrol right now!

Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They've previewed a new sisters unit, which inevitably comes with a new book. A new book which will likely be accompanied by a combat patrol.

It seems your sole gripe is there isn't an intro box for sisters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

The army box was, the multi parts were January iirc?

Why is people asking for their great start collecting boxes to be retired and to receive more expensive boxes with less discount?

Dudeface wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

Nonsense. Anyone and everyone should be trying to get value out of the products they buy.

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,' and they have less value even as start up products and are less branded as start up products ('Start Collecting' is a far better box title if you want to make the argument that box deals are somehow 'for' starting players)

JWBS wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

Sisters existed since 2nd edition. Much more than one year old.

Dudeface wrote:
It seems your sole gripe is there isn't an intro box for sisters.

Yes, this is just the part you chose to focus on.

Voss wrote:

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,'

What would they change, to make them objectively better for each faction, bearing in mind the constraints? (ie no mini-marines and no newly released stuff).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

Sisters existed since 2nd edition. Much more than one year old.

Heh. I briefly considered that you might be making that utterly facetious non-point but dismissed the notion as absurd. But you actually were Amazing!

JWBS wrote:

Voss wrote:

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,'

What would they change, to make them objectively better for each faction, bearing in mind the constraints? (ie no mini-marines and no newly released stuff).

I'd make the BA one the DW box
Put a mix of vanguard vets, sanguinary guard and death company in the BA. [no idea why you think that's a 'constraint'- it isn't.
SW- definitely tear out the aliens exo-suit. Toss in the wolf wolfers, maybe some other changes.

The major point of doing snowflake chapters is to create a different feel and playstyle. 'Uh... intercessors!' is a terrible choice for showing off the diversity and working with their 'specialness.' At that point you might as well throw in the towel on doing subfactions at all.

Oh so you think they're going to be releasing CP boxes with mini-marines?

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

Nonsense. Anyone and everyone should be trying to get value out of the products they buy.

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,' and they have less value even as start up products and are less branded as start up products ('Start Collecting' is a far better box title if you want to make the argument that box deals are somehow 'for' starting players)

Nothing you wrote invalidated my point. They provide a convenient and discounted combat patrol force for an army you're not familiar with.

Whether they're sensible units, fluffy, good for expanding forces, comply with the meta or good to buy multiples of aren't relevant to what the product is intended to do.

They might have worse value than start collecting boxes but it doesn't invalidate their purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:
Oh so you think they're going to be releasing CP boxes with mini-marines?

I don't think they will, the pattern is certainly set that they won't.

Voss wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Voss wrote:

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,'

What would they change, to make them objectively better for each faction, bearing in mind the constraints? (ie no mini-marines and no newly released stuff).

I'd make the BA one the DW box
Put a mix of vanguard vets, sanguinary guard and death company in the BA. [no idea why you think that's a 'constraint'- it isn't.
SW- definitely tear out the aliens exo-suit. Toss in the wolf wolfers, maybe some other changes.

The major point of doing snowflake chapters is to create a different feel and playstyle. 'Uh... intercessors!' is a terrible choice for showing off the diversity and working with their 'specialness.' At that point you might as well throw in the towel on doing subfactions at all.

it's pretty clear the CP boxes are gonna be Primaris. given those constraits, the boxes actually include potential faction specific stuff, the SW box has reivers, which can be Hounds of Morkai. and the BA box has intercessors which can be built as death company intercessors.

And the fact that Primaris have been pretty light on what we would consider classic assault units up until a few months ago means that they were always going to struggle with BA and SW particularly. DA and UM/Codex will have a few more options available that we would normally expect as the bread and butter of those chapters.

I didn't say it was horrid or evil.

As shocking as it is, people (even beginners!) have been able to, for decades, recognize that if the box is painted like Ultramarines, they can also use the contents for Blood Angels.

It's not like they're optimized or unique or otherwise special, they've just got some do-dads. I think people's complaints about where is their faction's box when Marines are getting a bunch (which ties up production and shelf space) is warranted.

SoB have only been out for a year. Unless you count the old range, which apparently he is. Why he would want a SC box of 90s SoB in nice shiny finecast though I have no clue.

Seriously, it's like you're willfully misinterpreting people's responses to be the most unreasonable thing, for you to then feel happy about criticizing.

It's not worth trying to discuss with someone arguing in bad faith. Congratulations, you win the not-debate with strawmen you've conjured. You're right and the most reasonable, everyone else is wrong.

What are you even talking about?

The SoB are new and aren't yet ready for a SC, yes or no? (Yes)

Oh, but hang on - they've been an army for 25 years, so they can jump ahead? And we can make a discount box full of new minis? Yes or no? (No)

So what then? He wants the old minis?

You don't seem to know what bad faith argument means.

Congratulations. Seriously. Etcetera.

JWBS wrote:
90s SoB in nice shiny finecast

This doesn't exist, never have, never will. Sisters were never finecast.

we had 1 Sister in Finecast, it was just terrible so everyone forgot about it

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

JWBS wrote:
90s SoB in nice shiny finecast

This doesn't exist, never have, never will. Sisters were never finecast.

Yes, I too had lead and then white metal SoB. So the Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas will be pewter instead of finecast? (finecast being the medium used for all models previously cast in pewter). Ok, personally I look forward to that. I never bought a finecast model.

JWBS wrote:
So the Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas will be pewter instead of finecast?

Well there is no such thing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

JWBS wrote:
So the Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas will be pewter instead of finecast?

Well there is no such thing.

There was no such thing as a finecast Dante. Until there was. I still prefer your pewter forecast though, I'll be rooting for them to go down that route. They can market it as 'Retro' or something.

JWBS wrote:
There was no such thing as a finecast Dante. Until there was.

That's not what I am talking about. There is no Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas. And there won't be, because GW doesn't do Start Collecting anymore, they do Combat Patrols, and GW doesn't do 90s sororitas either. And marines have a lot of those, and are apparently to gain many more, while other factions don't. And people tell me it's a good thing that marines get a lot of those while other factions don't.

"And people tell me it's a good thing that marines get a lot of those while other factions don't." is the part you should react to here, because it's on topic. Everything about Sisters is off-topic.

To be fair, there are very few factions that dont currently have a Start collecting box. Apart from SOB who else?

I mean it does suck if you are an SOB player but at least you ididnt get a BOTP box so a win eh ?

The combat patrol seems like crappier version of the start collecting box.

I expect Eldar will get 3 of the 5 plastic kits we have with one of them being a farseer...

I'd've thought that SoB would be in line for a Start Collecting! box fairly soon, but with the new Combat Patrols, that seems highly unlikely.

Now they'll get a Combat Patrol. When? Maybe around the time the Palatine comes out.

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

Nonsense. Anyone and everyone should be trying to get value out of the products they buy.

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,' and they have less value even as start up products and are less branded as start up products ('Start Collecting' is a far better box title if you want to make the argument that box deals are somehow 'for' starting players)

Nothing you wrote invalidated my point. They provide a convenient and discounted combat patrol force for an army you're not familiar with.

Whether they're sensible units, fluffy, good for expanding forces, comply with the meta or good to buy multiples of aren't relevant to what the product is intended to do.

They might have worse value than start collecting boxes but it doesn't invalidate their purpose.

Then I have a completely different understanding of what a faction specific discount bundle has in terms of 'a purpose.'
I legitimately have no idea how to parse what you're saying.

Because it sounds like you think they could throw in a bunch of chaos marines, charge more than they actually cost and write 'Combat Patrol: Chaos Daemons' on it and you'd say it fulfilled its purpose.