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Ice_can wrote:
24 inches has been bumped to 30 or 36 by primaris however. Because they have to be marines but better at every stat.
Gavflux bombards will probably go down to 18 inch range though.


Unlikely, but I guess possible. It is far more likely they changed it and forgot to change the chaos version. GW has done a good job at varying weapons in 9th so far to all be useful. Having two 18” guns wouldn’t make any sense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/18 13:46:10


 
   
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Falls Church, VA

18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.
   
Made in ca
Mysterious Techpriest






 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs

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 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs


What are dark reapers? I thought those were deleted from the codex after making a splash in early 8th. /s

Yeah 18" range guns are fine, but dual claws are da weh more manly better. Melee is not bad this edition, especially if you have the (warptime) speed (warptime) to get there (warptime).
   
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs


What are dark reapers? I thought those were deleted from the codex after making a splash in early 8th. /s

Yeah 18" range guns are fine, but dual claws are da weh more manly better. Melee is not bad this edition, especially if you have the (warptime) speed (warptime) to get there (warptime).


Nah, dark reapers are clearly Op since every shot can kill a guy in gravis armor, clearly unbalanced. (what do you mean theyre T3 W1 3+? that doesnt matter)

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 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Nah, dark reapers are clearly Op since every shot can kill a guy in gravis armor, clearly unbalanced. (what do you mean theyre T3 W1 3+? that doesnt matter)

But every swing of a Dreadnought fist is also flat 3...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/18 14:52:36


 
   
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Nah, dark reapers are clearly Op since every shot can kill a guy in gravis armor, clearly unbalanced. (what do you mean theyre T3 W1 3+? that doesnt matter)

But every swing of a Dreadnought fist is also flat 3...

Yeah if someone managed to get a Dread into melee they deserve that damage from the Fist. Dark Reapers have a range of what again, 36"?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Nah, dark reapers are clearly Op since every shot can kill a guy in gravis armor, clearly unbalanced. (what do you mean theyre T3 W1 3+? that doesnt matter)

But every swing of a Dreadnought fist is also flat 3...

Yeah if someone managed to get a Dread into melee they deserve that damage from the Fist. Dark Reapers have a range of what again, 36"?

True true. I can't even complain about Duty Eternal since it's just a serpent shield.

Wait, no, I can complain because it's a serpent shield but also works in melee. HA! Ignore the ability to shoot the shield for a second mmkay.
   
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Eldar kinda deserve this. The other factions... not so much.
   
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SecondTime wrote:
Eldar kinda deserve this. The other factions... not so much.


deserve what?


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Deserve to be curb stomped by marines. I know, I know "it's not good for the game", but after literal decades, Eldar tears are pretty amusing. Of course, GW being GW, just made the marines curb stomp everyone. That's a lot less amusing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/18 15:13:33


 
   
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SecondTime wrote:
Deserve to be curb stomped by marines. I know, I know "it's not good for the game", but after literal decades, Eldar tears are pretty amusing. Of course, GW being GW, just made the marines curb stomp everyone. That's a lot less amusing.


Oh, so we're going back to the argument that because an army overperformed in the past it should be terrible now?
Not taking into account that only a few units at a time have been problematic while the rest was unplayable trash.

Thats the same as people complaining that Marines were OP back when Guilliman parking lot was the OP build.

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 VladimirHerzog wrote:
SecondTime wrote:
Deserve to be curb stomped by marines. I know, I know "it's not good for the game", but after literal decades, Eldar tears are pretty amusing. Of course, GW being GW, just made the marines curb stomp everyone. That's a lot less amusing.


Oh, so we're going back to the argument that because an army overperformed in the past it should be terrible now?
Not taking into account that only a few units at a time have been problematic while the rest was unplayable trash.

Thats the same as people complaining that Marines were OP back when Guilliman parking lot was the OP build.


No, not SHOULD be. They shouldn't be. But this is GW. So since they ARE, I'm pointing out that of all the factions suffering, the Eldar deserve it the most. I know that truly competitive players will just jump ship, but the Eldar loyalists had many, many years to soak up easy wins.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/11/18 15:22:16


 
   
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Nah, dark reapers are clearly Op since every shot can kill a guy in gravis armor, clearly unbalanced. (what do you mean theyre T3 W1 3+? that doesnt matter)

But every swing of a Dreadnought fist is also flat 3...

Yeah if someone managed to get a Dread into melee they deserve that damage from the Fist. Dark Reapers have a range of what again, 36"?

True true. I can't even complain about Duty Eternal since it's just a serpent shield.

Wait, no, I can complain because it's a serpent shield but also works in melee. HA! Ignore the ability to shoot the shield for a second mmkay.

The Serpent has a good move range and Fly. If it gets caught in melee by something able to overpower it THAT quickly deserves to kill it. Eldar players have always been entitled with their rules though.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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I don't know if "entitled" is fair. Maybe. It seems every OP list always has its defenders, though.
   
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the only reason i even have serpents is that its the only way to transport our slow units (wraiths).

And even then, running 1-2 serpents isnt the end of the world for any army to take down, its only when you spam them big time (5+) that they start being problematic

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To bring 5 or more Wave Serpents doesn't leave much room for any other tanks like Fire Prisms or anything anyways. But this isn't an Eldar thread!
   
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SecondTime wrote:
I don't know if "entitled" is fair. Maybe. It seems every OP list always has its defenders, though.

Oh for sure, but Eldar players are the worst about it.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs


What are dark reapers? I thought those were deleted from the codex after making a splash in early 8th. /s

Yeah 18" range guns are fine, but dual claws are da weh more manly better. Melee is not bad this edition, especially if you have the (warptime) speed (warptime) to get there (warptime).

Dark reapers have literally been a top unit for eldar for 3 edditions in a row now. It's just hard to notice a unit like dark reapers when eldar armies consist of 55 warp spiders or 3 WK or 6 flyers and 18 shinning spears.

I used dark reapers a lot in 7th. they had a pretty amazing ability to ignore jinx then which made them god tier plus they basically got 2+ to hit just for taking 3 units of them with aspect shrine. In 8th they were literally in every eldar list until ynnari were nerfed and then eldar list deisgn changed radically. Back in 6th and 5th - they were just solid.

It is rather confusing why anyone would consider them bad.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
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 Xenomancers wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs


What are dark reapers? I thought those were deleted from the codex after making a splash in early 8th. /s

Yeah 18" range guns are fine, but dual claws are da weh more manly better. Melee is not bad this edition, especially if you have the (warptime) speed (warptime) to get there (warptime).

Dark reapers have literally been a top unit for eldar for 3 edditions in a row now. It's just hard to notice a unit like dark reapers when eldar armies consist of 55 warp spiders or 3 WK or 6 flyers and 18 shinning spears.

I used dark reapers a lot in 7th. they had a pretty amazing ability to ignore jinx then which made them god tier plus they basically got 2+ to hit just for taking 3 units of them with aspect shrine. In 8th they were literally in every eldar list until ynnari were nerfed and then eldar list deisgn changed radically. Back in 6th and 5th - they were just solid.

It is rather confusing why anyone would consider them bad.


because of their current rules/pts? You said it yourself that the last time they were played was in the Ynnari era.

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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs

Siege dreadnought = Siege Drill. Should probably bring one of each, that way you get 5 swings on the charge with the drill's S14 AP-4 D2d3/D6 against vehicles + a bonus swing with the claw. Plus the Siege Drill looks awesome with a liberal coating of Blood For the Blood God.
   
Made in ca
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs

Siege dreadnought = Siege Drill. Should probably bring one of each, that way you get 5 swings on the charge with the drill's S14 AP-4 D2d3/D6 against vehicles + a bonus swing with the claw. Plus the Siege Drill looks awesome with a liberal coating of Blood For the Blood God.


Yeah but a Salamander helmet being chopped by the claws look much better than crushed by the drill .
But yeah, realistically one of each is probably the best loadout, i should really get myself some Melta and drills for my levi, theyre the only weapons i'm missing on it.

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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs

Siege dreadnought = Siege Drill. Should probably bring one of each, that way you get 5 swings on the charge with the drill's S14 AP-4 D2d3/D6 against vehicles + a bonus swing with the claw. Plus the Siege Drill looks awesome with a liberal coating of Blood For the Blood God.


Yeah but a Salamander helmet being chopped by the claws look much better than crushed by the drill .
But yeah, realistically one of each is probably the best loadout, i should really get myself some Melta and drills for my levi, theyre the only weapons i'm missing on it.

Need the melta lance and grav flux bombard personally, but the SCA will always look cooler IMO. Still hoping they get their +1 attack for dual melee weapons back, even more so for Contemptors. Every other dread that can take two melee weapons gets it: Death Company, Furiosa, Hellbrutes....
   
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Executing Exarch






 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs


What are dark reapers? I thought those were deleted from the codex after making a splash in early 8th. /s

Yeah 18" range guns are fine, but dual claws are da weh more manly better. Melee is not bad this edition, especially if you have the (warptime) speed (warptime) to get there (warptime).

Dark reapers have literally been a top unit for eldar for 3 edditions in a row now. It's just hard to notice a unit like dark reapers when eldar armies consist of 55 warp spiders or 3 WK or 6 flyers and 18 shinning spears.

I used dark reapers a lot in 7th. they had a pretty amazing ability to ignore jinx then which made them god tier plus they basically got 2+ to hit just for taking 3 units of them with aspect shrine. In 8th they were literally in every eldar list until ynnari were nerfed and then eldar list deisgn changed radically. Back in 6th and 5th - they were just solid.

It is rather confusing why anyone would consider them bad.


because of their current rules/pts? You said it yourself that the last time they were played was in the Ynnari era.


I wholeheartedly disagree.
2 reasons

1. even after ynnari nerf with EC trait MSU 3x3 reaper units at 300 pts were really good at the end of 8th.

2. A unit of 5+ with guide and doom can just walk into obstructing terrain feature unload all the dakka and then dire and fade out of LOS.

Reapers were the only thing that done reliable damage until falcons got a hefty point drop in post PA world with EC trait.

Yes they are too expensive for T3 1W model but thats the case with every single eldar non vehicle unit.

Comparing any flavour of dreads to wraithlord wraithseer one can see how good they are.
Free duty eternal is stupid good..

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/18 22:22:59


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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Even with EC, they quickly became obsolete when people started spamming starcannons. Theyre just too squishy for their points. I'm not saying theyre not playable, theyre still one of the better aspect warriors in the army and they will delete anything theyre pointed at.

Now, i really do hope that wraithlords will get duty eternal instead of what the wraithseer got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs

Siege dreadnought = Siege Drill. Should probably bring one of each, that way you get 5 swings on the charge with the drill's S14 AP-4 D2d3/D6 against vehicles + a bonus swing with the claw. Plus the Siege Drill looks awesome with a liberal coating of Blood For the Blood God.


Yeah but a Salamander helmet being chopped by the claws look much better than crushed by the drill .
But yeah, realistically one of each is probably the best loadout, i should really get myself some Melta and drills for my levi, theyre the only weapons i'm missing on it.

Need the melta lance and grav flux bombard personally, but the SCA will always look cooler IMO. Still hoping they get their +1 attack for dual melee weapons back, even more so for Contemptors. Every other dread that can take two melee weapons gets it: Death Company, Furiosa, Hellbrutes....


Agreed on the extra attack. Seeing "disciplined" loyalists get so many more attacks than the supposedly "melee centric" CSM is getting pretty old.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/11/19 02:11:24


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 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Even with EC, they quickly became obsolete when people started spamming starcannons. Theyre just too squishy for their points. I'm not saying theyre not playable, theyre still one of the better aspect warriors in the army and they will delete anything theyre pointed at.

Now, i really do hope that wraithlords will get duty eternal instead of what the wraithseer got.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 VladimirHerzog wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
18" guns are fine - after all, they're the longest-ranged man-portable guns in the Eldar arsenal.


here, meet my dark reapers....
But yes, 18" on the bombard is a non-issue, especially since the midfield gets swarmed by both sides on turn 1 anyway. Besides, real leviathans have dual claws, none of that ranged bs

Siege dreadnought = Siege Drill. Should probably bring one of each, that way you get 5 swings on the charge with the drill's S14 AP-4 D2d3/D6 against vehicles + a bonus swing with the claw. Plus the Siege Drill looks awesome with a liberal coating of Blood For the Blood God.


Yeah but a Salamander helmet being chopped by the claws look much better than crushed by the drill .
But yeah, realistically one of each is probably the best loadout, i should really get myself some Melta and drills for my levi, theyre the only weapons i'm missing on it.

Need the melta lance and grav flux bombard personally, but the SCA will always look cooler IMO. Still hoping they get their +1 attack for dual melee weapons back, even more so for Contemptors. Every other dread that can take two melee weapons gets it: Death Company, Furiosa, Hellbrutes....


Agreed on the extra attack. Seeing "disciplined" loyalists get so many more attacks than the supposedly "melee centric" CSM is getting pretty old.

Wow it's almost like the CSM army should be Vet stats at minimum like I've been saying for years! Big think.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Better, really. They have the power of the plot...errrrr the warp.
   
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SecondTime wrote:
Better, really. They have the power of the plot...errrrr the warp.

To be fair, the way I see it is that the Intercessor should be the base of how to price a Marine. Ergo a Vet in the CSM army would logically be A3.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SecondTime wrote:
Better, really. They have the power of the plot...errrrr the warp.

To be fair, the way I see it is that the Intercessor should be the base of how to price a Marine. Ergo a Vet in the CSM army would logically be A3.


I'd make CSM 3W base because warp. But that's me. I'm a fan of credible antagonists.
   
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SecondTime wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SecondTime wrote:
Better, really. They have the power of the plot...errrrr the warp.

To be fair, the way I see it is that the Intercessor should be the base of how to price a Marine. Ergo a Vet in the CSM army would logically be A3.


I'd make CSM 3W base because warp. But that's me. I'm a fan of credible antagonists.


Yeah but what about the legions that shun the warp and are simply renegades?
CSM need 2A, Chosen 3A.


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