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 Mr Morden wrote:

With both those signatures, I could be a complete arse to pretty much anyone I wanted. Even an Inquisitor was limited in what they could do me for. Trading with Xenos? Yeah, Emperor said that was cool. Mucking about with archaeotech? Yeah I’m allowed to that too.

Trick for me was not to push my luck. Long as I could prove my actions were reasonable and not reckless, I could do more or less as I pleased.

Trading with Xenos is stock and trade for a RT - although there are still proscribed Xenos species that even they may not trade with - as you say - you don't push your luck. Dabling with heretical artefacts or their like can still mean their downfall.

Antogonising an Inquisitor without a very good reason is very stupid. Plenty of RTs have been purged by the Inquisition - often aided by the RT rivals and they will have plenty of the latter inside and beyond their own family.

The same RT rpg also notes that RT expeditions are sometimes accompanied by Imperial forces (Including Marines or Sisters) who are "nominally" under the control of the RT but are mainly there to keep an eye of her or him. Inquisitors are known to travel with them to keep an eye on them on occassion.

It’s a very liberating character to play. My fleet wound up with a conclave of Sisters, complete with drop Monastery (which was put to good use when we stumbled across a non-Imperial human populated system). Also found and rescued the last survivor of a Deathwatch Kill Team. Finally we had a pretty substantial Ad-Mech contingent.

Only time I pressed my luck? Wound up having to jump off a cliff to avoid Genestealers. Landed more or less OK, my pre-Imperium power armour seeing to that. The aforementioned Deathwatch Marine landing on top of me, yeah didn’t survive that!


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Overall, I’d say the loose nature of 40k’s canon plays well for an RPG setting, especially when it comes to uncertain equivalence between different departments.

It puts a lot of it in the player’s hands, especially for a Rogue Trader - and presents a hopefully welcome challenge to the GM.

In my little fleet for instance? I had precedence over the Ad-Mech, but would only rarely truly leverage it when absolutely necessary. When it came to their business (repairs, research etc) my RT knew better than to interfere. I’d typically only pull strings when I was Up To Something, and needed the right support.

I also had a fair amount of archeotech with which to bait them. Not so much dangled as a carrot, more as an up promised reward/thank you. Sometimes also flipped it, leveraging access to what I had to make requests whilst they were tinkering away.

Main trick was to stop them discovering my highly unsanctioned xeno-tech bonce enhancer I got during the pre-campaign intro...... Thankfully it seriously boosted my intelligence, letting me run rings around them in the dice rolling stakes!

God I want to play Rogue Trader again!

Doesn't an inquisitor have the ability to outright declare someone a heretic and execute them? This is done several times to high ranking people, and space marines. entire companies if my memory serves. They basically carry the legal authority to do anything that betters the standing of the Emperor's might/will. If they have to declare an entire company of Astartes Heretics, they have that ability. Whether those Astartes turn him into paste in .45 miliseconds, is entirely up to them. But they do have that ability.

It's like saying did Grimaldus have the authority to take over the forces of Armegeddon and the Titans therein? yes and no. Doctrinally, no. He wasn't even close to the highest ranking person there. But he did and the forces went along with it.

They do, but they’ll need evidence, the level of which I suspect would vary depending on the person accused.

Astartes? Whoa there, buster. You better have strong evidence to back it up. Especially if you’re gunning for the entire Chapter. Not only are they a rare resource within the Imperium, but they carry a lot of political clout.

Planetary Governor? You’d better be sure. Yes, another can be parachuted in, or selected from the remaining nobility. But as Necromunda shows, planetary governance is a web of pacts and alliances. Tampering with that can affect whole sectors, depending on the planet. Now, if you can replace Governor Smith with someone else from his or her family? Not so bad, as such a replacement was always on the cards, one way or the other.

Imperial Guard? How deep does it go? Is it just that regiment? Their campaign? Their home world?

And remember, the rest of the Inquisition is watching you right back...

Oh come on, the Inquisition has condemned entire worlds to the fire on the hint of cult activity or GSC infestation.

One inquisitor making claims of heresy would be handled the same way the Custodes handled that one rogue primaris chapter. Very quickly, brutally, and efficiently. After it was over, evidence and proof would be subject to review. Not before. How many times have kill teams been sent for Eisenhorn, with no proof just an upset and vengeful Inquisitor. There was that Comic where the inquisitor traveling with the Grey knights leveled the claim of heresy against the entire company she was investigating. Then they blew her head off. It's not uncommon for them to be wrong, but they still have that ability. Thats all I am saying.

Hint is still evidence.

Exterminatus remains a relatively rare sanction, because one does not squander The Emperor’s worlds.

Have you read any of the background at all?

I will admit, it's use is more of a plot device than actual statement of fact in the lore. There are extremely few standout moments where exterminatus was ordered. For instance the Kryptman doctrine speaks of entire systems being bombed to stop the Tyranids.

Point being, yes, the lore almost never speaks about it. But not mentioning something explicitly kept silent at the highest levels doesn't mean it never happens. Also, the authority to create such an event without the black ships seems to be ...vague. The Ad-mech guy who steered an orbiting moon into his own planet to wipe out an invading force, or Creed overloading a Plasma drive that literally blew up the planet...I'd say those were both Exterminatus level events that did not require the high lords accent.

You don’t need the High Lords agreement to declare Exterminatus.

Generally, that option lies only with Chapter Masters and Inquisitors. Nor are Black Ships required.

But regardless of who declares and enacts it? They need to show it was proportionate. That whatever was going on could not be contained by any other method.

Kryptman? Well, the Nids are the sort of foe that you want to deny resources to as much as possible. Generally, the trick is to let the planet fall, then knack whilst the Fleet gathers to feed. This in theory delivers a triple whammy to the Hive Fleet. Depletion of resources in taking the planet, replenishment denied, and the potential to take out Hive Ships when destroying the planet.

Do that enough times, and a Hive Fleet could end up in serious trouble, requiring an ever bigger victory to get back on an even keel.

Of course, Kryptman was then declared a traitor, despite the impressive impact on Hive Fleet Leviathan. So again we see the need to be able to justify your actions, even as an Inquisitor.

Exterminatis is basically the Imperium admitting defeat and in general it doesn't like doing that. Plus whilst the Imperium CAN do something it doesn't mean that it always WILL.

Just like a commissar can shoot anyone at any moment they are generally not just going to walk into the platoon and let rip with the bolter and shoot everyone.

There's a balance between can and will and the Imperium can and does do horrible things, but not everything is horror at every moment and there is some sanity mixed into the madness.

Kryptman's campaign against Leviathan is a prime example of where even a sound tactic was viewed in bad light both during and after the fact. Yes it worked, but it also lost the Imperium many worlds that other strategists might argue could have been saved. Each of those worlds will take vast resources to bring back into the fold (if ever) and make productive once more and that will also take generations to achieve. It's a huge loss of resources at the local and major scale for the Imperium and its clearly not a tactic that they can encourage either. Otherwise the Imperium will end up literally blowing itself up to win.

In Ian Watson's Inquisitor novel the lead character orders the exterminatus of a world but later rescinds the order. Out of pure spite his astropath never sends the order to stand down resulting in an entire world being murdered due to clerical error. Pretty grim-dark.

I think we are again coming up against the issue of theoretical authority and actual reality/consequences. An Inquisitor has the authority to order exterminatus and I don't believe there are any formal checks and balances for this. But I'd guess if it was a major forge world then the marine chapter tasked with the request might want a good reason why and might well seek confirmation from higher authorities before going ahead. If it is just a backwater on the eastern fringe then they might do it as part of a drive by to somewhere more important and the higher authorities might not even notice for a few hundred years until they turn up to ask why the tithe isn't being paid, because grim-dark.

It also shows a potential way to halt the Hive Fleets. It just needs a level of organisation to properly capitalise.

The cordon need only be as big as is absolutely necessary. As I explained above, each is a triple hit to the Hive Fleet in question. Losses to take the planet, denied its bounty, at least some Hive Ship organisms killed into the bargain.

What is missing however is a space borne counter for when it’s travelling to the next planet in the chain. It doesn’t have to be a major strike, but it does need to have enough range and firepower to keep chipping away.

The more one-sided you can make those engagements, the more you force the Hive Fleet to expend its resources. The more you do it, the more those resources dwindle.

One hell of a lot easier said than done, even with sufficient organisation of course. But the theory is sound.

Had he been able to get that backing, the outcome could’ve been different. After all, you’re talking about sacrificing a number of planets to save a larger number of others.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guess the best answer to OP’s question can be summed up as “unlimited, but not unfettered”?

 Overread wrote:

Kryptman's campaign against Leviathan is a prime example of where even a sound tactic was viewed in bad light both during and after the fact. Yes it worked, but it also lost the Imperium many worlds that other strategists might argue could have been saved. Each of those worlds will take vast resources to bring back into the fold (if ever) and make productive once more and that will also take generations to achieve. It's a huge loss of resources at the local and major scale for the Imperium and its clearly not a tactic that they can encourage either. Otherwise the Imperium will end up literally blowing itself up to win.

There is also a potential risk. If the IoM tried and failed to defend those worlds, then those resources wouldn't only be lost, but would be assimilated by the Tyranids and used against the Imperium.

Kryptman's cordon is playing it safe, sacrificing resources to avoid a potentially far worse outcome.

The problem with Tyranids is what next. They've already started building a planet sized something that projects a vast blanket of the Shadow in the Warp. Perhaps some kind of vast anti-chaos counterweapon to deal with Chaos.

If the Imperium starts burning world after world to create a firebreak I'm sure Tyranids will adapt. Perhaps their fleets will strike deep into the heart of Imperial space; fasting just to hit core worlds so far behind the firebreak that even if the Tyranid force loses, the Imperium loses vast amounts of moral and determination to maintain a firebreak.

All of it.

The Inquisition is the integrity of the empire and the reach of an inquisitor is as broad.

Let's not forget that one inquisitor that executers anyone he finds innocent for the crime of wasting his time by not avoiding the suspicion of guilt.

 Overread wrote:
The problem with Tyranids is what next. They've already started building a planet sized something that projects a vast blanket of the Shadow in the Warp. Perhaps some kind of vast anti-chaos counterweapon to deal with Chaos.

If the Imperium starts burning world after world to create a firebreak I'm sure Tyranids will adapt. Perhaps their fleets will strike deep into the heart of Imperial space; fasting just to hit core worlds so far behind the firebreak that even if the Tyranid force loses, the Imperium loses vast amounts of moral and determination to maintain a firebreak.

And you are right, such strategy is a losing one. Such exterminatus cordons are better for the situations in which the IoM doesn't have the forces at hand to stop a Hive Fleet, which BTW was the original issue that led to the burning of the Kryptman's cordon.

The few Imperial worlds that refused to evacuate and tried to hold their ground against Leviathan like Shadowbrink or, far more important considering its role as a major Forge World, Gryphonne IV were casually overwhelmed.

The whole reason why Kryptman did his Exterminatus cordon (and diversion of Leviathan to the Orks) was precisely because the Imperium could not match the Tyranids in attrition. The Imperium could not rely on its sheer numbers to turn the tide like it has done before for so many other threats.

All the uproar over the lost worlds shows that for all its propaganda about not caring or counting the cost, the Imperium still does.

Kryptmans plot was short term to give them breathign space to mobalise forces and also to divert the Nids to fights the Orks - of course he also knew that the winner would be even stronger.

Kryptman also had to go on the run for a bit due to this policy.

In Dante it literally says that in hindsight Kyptman had failed, the Hive fleet made it through and completely undeterred. Kryptman's Cordon was a failed attempt. It was only decreased the total number of defendable worlds to slow down the hive fleet. In the end the Fleet just passed them, where if they hadn't been bombed, the fleets would have been delayed in the devouring of them.

Do you have the citation for that?

I just said, the book dante. Chapter 11, just re-read it. And I was wrong.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was wrong, He did not says Kyptman failed, but that the strategy of Kryptman would have failed on the planet cyptis. My apologies.

The limits on the power of an Inquisitor is ultimately political. They all have the full power of the Emperor, but they must have the political capital necessary to do anything they cannot personally do. That is only gained over time and success. The more effective an Inquistor is in tracking down and destroying the enemies of the Imperium, the more prestige he gains. The more prestige he gains, the more resources he can draw on and the more compliance to his order he gains.

For those of you saying that Inquisitors all have legal authority over the Astartes, that's very much a matter of contention. They claim they do. Many Astartes chapters claim they do not. At various times, one or the other is right.

I think the issue is that it's a complex distinction
But my understanding was that investigations of Astartes does fall within the remit of the inquisition.
However Astartes are outwith the scope of the inquisition in terms of being a requestionable asset that can be commanded.

As far as I am aware the only 2 institutions specifically out with the purview of the inquisition is the Custodes and Sisters of Silence due to them being beholden to non other than the Emperor himself, and carrying his authority in execution of their responsibilities to him (Big E).

Gman is an interesting one as it probably depends on which definition of imperial regent your using as GW have not been consistent in how they have defined the powers it confers, though being able to legally kill high lords of terra seems like a good indication that the limitations on his power is minimal.

Statesman qualities aside, Guilliman is probably the most clued up person in the Imperium, because he’s intimately familiar with Things Going Horribly Wrong.

He almost certainly could kill whomever he chooses. He is after all a Primarch, and Regent of Terra. That kinda comes with unparalleled influence and clout.

Trouble is, now is categorically not the time to go rocking the boat. Hence why he’s done nothing about the Imperial Cult. Given time he might try to dismantle it, he might not. Because it’s all a balancing game.

His every action ultimately risks some form of schism with the Imperium. Just because (much like the Inquisition) his authority is near absolute, he still can’t just throw his weight around Willy Nilly.

That is where his undisputed statesmanship comes into play. You don’t need to necessarily take heed of advice, requests, demands or comments etc. But you at least need to pretend to listen.

You don’t order people about - you persuade them. You tell them why you’re doing X and not the Y they’d prefer.

Suffice to say his personal backing is a significant hurdle to the Adeptus Mechanicus doing anything at all about Cawl, who in the eyes of more than a few is a Heretek, and indeed Heretic for upgrading Astartes biology. Yet, he can’t simply put Cawl in charge of the Adeptus Mechanicus - because that’s not how the Imperium works, or has ever worked.

The same likely extends to the High Lords. Yes, he probably could forcibly remove any or all of them from power - but doesn’t get to decide who replaces them.

He’s kinda like Queen Elizabeth of Great Britain. Lots of power, but cannot exercise it directly. For instance, the U.K. Government has to ask to borrow her army - but she can’t actually refuse. She’s also completely immune from Prosecution, as criminal cases are The Crown versus X - and she cannot try herself.

Besides, right now, there are far, far more pressing matters to take in hand, such as giving Chaos a good shoeing.

If any of the High Lords step out of line? That’s a completely different story of course. But he still can’t just act without thought or consultation.

The other thing to balance is that whilst Guilliman has supreme power, he's also mortal. The powers he's going up against, if they took dislike to his direction, could have him killed.

He could, on paper, issue an end to the religious order of the Imperium. In reality he'd likely get branded a traitor, excommunicated and be hunted down. Even his supreme position is not beyond contest. With the Imperium as it is now even the Emperor himself would likely have issues trying to do the same. It would easily shatter the Imperium into a new Civil war. Just because your saviour and god has returned doesn't mean he's the right saviour and god you were expecting/promised/hoping for/wanting to control.


Inquisitors are much the same and I suspect many times a solution is born of the need to balance various powerful parties against each other; or manipulate or order one to attack another.

 Overread wrote:
The other thing to balance is that whilst Guilliman has supreme power, he's also mortal. The powers he's going up against, if they took dislike to his direction, could have him killed.

He could, on paper, issue an end to the religious order of the Imperium. In reality he'd likely get branded a traitor, excommunicated and be hunted down. Even his supreme position is not beyond contest. With the Imperium as it is now even the Emperor himself would likely have issues trying to do the same. It would easily shatter the Imperium into a new Civil war. Just because your saviour and god has returned doesn't mean he's the right saviour and god you were expecting/promised/hoping for/wanting to control.


Inquisitors are much the same and I suspect many times a solution is born of the need to balance various powerful parties against each other; or manipulate or order one to attack another.

The irony that the Ecclesearcy are a bunch of religious not jobs practicing the tennents of books written by one of the founding traiter primarchs though certainly has to seen as heretical in and of itself there by rendering anyone involved in such an endevour touched by heresy.

The fact that the inquisition have systemically failed to address this or that they utterly failednto address the conspiracies and coup attempts realy does highlight that the inquisition for it paper power and clear job description isnt very good at it's own job.

But on the topic of the eclesiarcy I do think that going forward in the story line GW is going to be forced to address the issue.
The ecclesiarcy have made enimies of the Mechnicus, Sisters of Silence, Imperial Regent & the Custodes.

Yeah Gman isn't going to heap more problems on his already significant number of urgent issues to deal with.

Also the Space Wolves, and most of the Astartes except the Black Templars, who might as well be members of the Cult anyway.

Hecaton wrote:
For those of you saying that Inquisitors all have legal authority over the Astartes, that's very much a matter of contention. They claim they do. Many Astartes chapters claim they do not. At various times, one or the other is right.

Many Chapters? Apart from the Wolves who are actually made of plot armour - which Chapters have openly stated that they are not subject to the Inquisiton and not suffered the consequences.

However Astartes are outwith the scope of the inquisition in terms of being a requestionable asset that can be commanded.

They do this quite often in the lore so thats wrong.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
For those of you saying that Inquisitors all have legal authority over the Astartes, that's very much a matter of contention. They claim they do. Many Astartes chapters claim they do not. At various times, one or the other is right.

Many Chapters? Apart from the Wolves who are actually made of plot armour - which Chapters have openly stated that they are not subject to the Inquisiton and not suffered the consequences.

However Astartes are outwith the scope of the inquisition in terms of being a requestionable asset that can be commanded.

They do this quite often in the lore so thats wrong.

My bad on the spelling error is supposed to be requesitionable
I.E. here is my Iquisitional seal do as I say now, I am in charge.

Almost all the lore is requesting assistance or highlighting a situation that needs addressing.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The same likely extends to the High Lords. Yes, he probably could forcibly remove any or all of them from power - but doesn’t get to decide who replaces them.

This is actually exactly what he did. The impact of that is the primary plot of Watcher's of the Throne: The Regent's Shadow. It went about as well as could be expected. Maybe even slightly better than expected.