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Yeah, kind of hard to fault GW for leaving some opportunities by the wayside for others to have a go.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
We get 20 days here in Oz.

Unless you're a teacher, in which case you make 2-3 times the average Nurse, and get 10 weeks off a year.

Is that a legit statement? That teachers -- not college professors, etc. -- earn on average 2-3 times an average registered nurse's salary? In the US, that could be $150-200K USD/year. Maybe up $300K, depending on location.

Maybe in USA nurses have higher salaries, privatized healthcare and that? At least in Spain they have very poor laboral conditions and salaries that in spain context aren't that poor but aren't what they should be.

Chopstick wrote:
Imagine making a game, then GW higher up tell you that your game is too complicated and their consumers wouldn't understand.

Only AT and BB still have a decent core rule that aren't simplified and stripped to the bone. Game like Aeronautica Imperialis got simplified and people still complaint "its too complicated, because of the attitude and speed stat". These people aren't stupid, they're just really lazy, so GW want to design games just for these people, like instant ramen.

I don't know how anyone could play 40k and not think it is complicated. If anything it is too much.

Umbros wrote:
I don't know how anyone could play 40k and not think it is complicated. If anything it is too much.

Complicated in the sense that it is convoluted, not complex. Rules upon rules upon rules whole sole function is to pad out the pagecount and burden the mind while not adding anything to gameplay.

It is complicated in a way that the rules are bloated, inelegant, with micro-rules, micro-management, interpretation difficulties, exceptions and gotcha!s.

It isn't complex in that decisions are mostly simple and obvious, and there're few decision points in a given turn, RNG is rife. A few sixes at the correct moment have more impact than making best choices.

As someone working with design in a corporate environment (alas, not games design), I can tell you that your degrees of freedom in this kind of job will be extremely small. Technical constraints, manufacturing, materials, cost, team issues, opinionated management, etc etc will always have priority. I spend maybe 90% of my time navigating limitations, herding cats and convincing internal stakeholders and 10% on actual, creative design work, and I expect this job to be more or less the same.

(then when you finally got your prototype done and start usability testing chances are good that the users are completely lost and don't understand anything and "why is this different from the old thing I already have at home?" and then it's right back to the drawing board again...)

Anyway, design is difficult. If it wasn't, the world wouldn't need designers. Armchair designing in online forums is much easier.

Sorry for the rant.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
For me the illusion of the ivory tower vanished 5 years ago when I saw a job opening for the studio and it hit me all of a sudden that these people aren't gods, they're just wage slaves like everybody else and there's absolutely no reason why incompetence would be any rarer in game design than it is in, say, customer service call centres.

I work as a Customer Service Executive AND am a Game designer!

"In place of the Dark Lord you will set up an Incompetent. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!”

yukishiro1 wrote:
It's not worth applying to whether you live in Nottingham or not. This is the lead design position of the crown jewel of a company worth billions. If you aren't currently at least a senior designer of a big-name game company, your application won't be given more than the 3 seconds of attention required to scan the resume to see that you aren't.

While you are probably right, it's not totally unprecedented. When Damon left FFG went through the hiring process and hired someone with no professional game design experience to lead on Netrunner, their biggest LCG at the time. And it worked out too.

Plus it's not as if, in the GW hierarchy, game design is high up. They make models first, then they make rules for them.

Working at Games Workshop
At Games Workshop we are looking for people who will do their best to understand the needs of the company and to put those needs first when they are at work. Because of this we believe that what you are like, hence the attitude you show to work and the way you choose to behave is just as important as your skills and experience.

Looks like they still hire for attitude, not experience.

My guess is that most other “real” designers would probably look at this job and turn away; where I work at here our want ads claim to be looking for well-trained professionals but the truth is we couldn’t afford one if they actually applied - HR then uses the lack of qualifications to hire the wanna-be and negotiate down the pay and benefits.

By the way, who WAS the previous Lead Games Designer that this opening is for?

It was Alpharius, wasn’t it?

 gorgon wrote:

Is that a legit statement? That teachers -- not college professors, etc. -- earn on average 2-3 times an average registered nurse's salary? In the US, that could be $150-200K USD/year. Maybe up $300K, depending on location.

No, it's an exaggeration. Average teacher salary in Oz is about 10-20% higher than a registered nurse. Nurses here are certainly woefully underpaid for the work they do, though.

 insaniak wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Is that a legit statement? That teachers -- not college professors, etc. -- earn on average 2-3 times an average registered nurse's salary? In the US, that could be $150-200K USD/year. Maybe up $300K, depending on location.

No, it's an exaggeration. Average teacher salary in Oz is about 10-20% higher than a registered nurse. Nurses here are certainly woefully underpaid for the work they do, though.

Nurses get paid decently in the US but they're always understaffed for maximum profit.
Source: I work in Healthcare

 insaniak wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Is that a legit statement? That teachers -- not college professors, etc. -- earn on average 2-3 times an average registered nurse's salary? In the US, that could be $150-200K USD/year. Maybe up $300K, depending on location.

No, it's an exaggeration. Average teacher salary in Oz is about 10-20% higher than a registered nurse. Nurses here are certainly woefully underpaid for the work they do, though.

Even the 10-20% number depends on your source though, there's a lot of variation when you try to find the average registered nurse salary, and some of the average teacher salaries I found through google seemed unrealistic based on what I've been told from family members who are teachers. It's not a big sample size, but people who I know that have been working as teachers for nearly 20 years and are in senior positions are earning less than people I know who are working as nurses for a similar period. Teachers get their salary and all the expectations that go with it, but nurses often work overtime or odd hours and get extra because of it, then the senior roles are much better paid. But teachers start out on a higher salary, which probably bumps up their average a bit.

Though Australian pay scales are silly, I go through all the people who have told me how much their earn and based on their jobs I never would have guessed the order correctly.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
But teachers start out on a higher salary, which probably bumps up their average a bit.

Fairly sure that most private schools pay better than the public system as well, which would also push the average up.

Though Australian pay scales are silly, I go through all the people who have told me how much their earn and based on their jobs I never would have guessed the order correctly.

A lot of it seems to come down more to how good your union is at negotiating awards, rather than how much your job is actually worth.

Usually the pay is worse at private schools, as I understand it.

Can of worms still open I see.

Anyway, "private school" and "public school" mean different things in different countries; sometimes even the opposite.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Umbros wrote:

Chopstick wrote:
Imagine making a game, then GW higher up tell you that your game is too complicated and their consumers wouldn't understand.

Only AT and BB still have a decent core rule that aren't simplified and stripped to the bone. Game like Aeronautica Imperialis got simplified and people still complaint "its too complicated, because of the attitude and speed stat". These people aren't stupid, they're just really lazy, so GW want to design games just for these people, like instant ramen.

I don't know how anyone could play 40k and not think it is complicated. If anything it is too much.

This will probably make me sound like some 50 year old grongard.. BUT I think there is large chunk of the lazy going on... People have gotten accustomed to; and young people have only ever experienced, getting things at instant speed with no work needed. Quick, convenient, and no effort needed.

To the point of computer games. There is currently a weird boom in games that play themselves. As in the game plays itself and you just go on to collect rewards. I mean I seriously dont get it.. But, one major company(possibly sony?) recently did a patent application for essentially a "self play mode".
Imagine you playing some sort of action rpg game and need to hunt 50 bears their 50 pelts for a quest. Now you just turn on the auto play function and your dude goes out and does it on his own while you go watch your favourite youtuber playing the game you just set to auto play.. wait what...?

The future looks dark my friends...

 Stormonu wrote:

Looks like they still hire for attitude, not experience.

For people I hire a culture fit is almost as important as skills. If you can't work well together the skills aren't as useful.

I do wonder if this is a growth position or back filling. I think more likely the former given growth, but curious nonetheless.

 Stormonu wrote:
By the way, who WAS the previous Lead Games Designer that this opening is for?

I believe Robin Cruddace is/was the lead 40k designer.

Is he gone?

If so that's a shame. I was really looking forward to him ruining the Tyranid Codex for a 3rd time.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

Looks like they still hire for attitude, not experience.

For people I hire a culture fit is almost as important as skills. If you can't work well together the skills aren't as useful.

I do wonder if this is a growth position or back filling. I think more likely the former given growth, but curious nonetheless.

We don't need someone that fits with their culture, and if anything that's part of the problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is he gone?

If so that's a shame. I was really looking forward to him ruining the Tyranid Codex for a 3rd time.

Cruddace wasn't the best but at least he's better than Kelly.

Sorry guys, this ad was created by the rules writing team.

Should actually read - Lead Games Developer - They are moving back to white metal production with an exclusive ruleset.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Cruddace wasn't the best but at least he's better than Kelly.

That's a matter of perspective if you're a Tyranid player.

Instead of applying for this job, I decided to go out in the street holding a cardboard sign that read,

"Please kick me in the junk!"

About the same result as if I had gotten the job!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

We don't need someone that fits with their culture, and if anything that's part of the problem.

If the definition of their culture is the caricature that Dakka makes then, no.

Argive wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

This will probably make me sound like some 50 year old grongard.

Grognard. If you're going to be old and crotchety please use the correct spelling.

Mr. Burning wrote:Sorry guys, this ad was created by the rules writing team.

Should actually read - Lead Games Developer - They are moving back to white metal production with an exclusive ruleset.

Cute.