Switch Theme:

Tyranids - Reintroduction of vehicular creatures  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Overread wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
I actually saw the Raveners as a bit of cross-pollination from Starcraft's Hydralisk, just as Starcraft might have borrowed ideas from the Tyranids for the Zerg.


Oh very much so, they even do the whole "thorax" weapon not just a held gun
*ahem*

And remember: All of GW's ideas are completely original and 100% not borrowed from outside sources. They said so in court.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
I actually saw the Raveners as a bit of cross-pollination from Starcraft's Hydralisk, just as Starcraft might have borrowed ideas from the Tyranids for the Zerg.


Oh very much so, they even do the whole "thorax" weapon not just a held gun
*ahem*

And remember: All of GW's ideas are completely original and 100% not borrowed from outside sources. They said so in court.


Yeah I'm not denying that Starcraft lifted marines tyranids and eldar into marines zerg and protoss; just that the ravenor was very clearly heavily inspired by the Hydralisk.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in ca
Deranged Necron Destroyer






 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the early plastic Warriors are the best. They're also surprisingly taller than the current kits. To me they look more alien, and more intelligent.


Damm, I thought that was a rebuilt Tyrant Guard on the end.

Girl Gamers are the best! 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It's a Dakkanaut's custom Tyranid Prime.

It's very cool.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's a Dakkanaut's custom Tyranid Prime.

It's very cool.
Ty!

It's Tyrant Guard torso/head, 3rd/4th ed metal Carnifex legs, and Swarmlord Swords. . . The little arms I forget, possibly Tyrant Guard again? Dunno. I copied the build from a friend of mine.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




I prefer the revamped Tyranid Warriors myself over the old 2nd edition Warriors with their latticework ribcage and exposed organs. The old ones just look ungainly and don't look as durable. I also wouldn't judge the intelligence by the appearance. That's the classic mistake the Imperium makes.

Anyway, back to the original topic. I think that some of the remakes of Tyranid creatures like the Haruspex lack a bit of originality in appearance and concept for me. Just compare the old slug/crustacean Haruspex vehicle to the new Haruspex, which basically seems like a Carnifex bodyplan vomiting its stomach out. I don't want that to be the direction of new Tyranid creatures, as if just recycling the big Tyranid body doing something slightly different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/26 03:25:30


 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I'm a fan of the old 2E Warriors, if they were redone these days with modern sculpting I think they would be fantastic.

I still use mine as Scout Warriors - faster than warrior, but with less armor/toughness. Sort of a genestealer/warrior hybrid.

There's some crazy Tyranids from Advanced Space Crusade I wish they'd consider

Spoiler:






I can't even find pictures of some of the weirder pictures from that game, but back in those days it would have been impossible to model some of the crazy things in that book.

It never ends well 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Art always looks better, but GW have moved away from Tyranids holding organic but still conventional looking swords to more clearly biological portrayals.

By other stuff, do you mean things like the Grabber Slasher?

https://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f1/Grabberslasher.jpg

GW I think moved away from that just as they moved away from the more mutated Chaos stuff. Jes Goodwin's interview said they were going for more army wide consistency in look. The old stuff even if redone, might have made things too lumpy, weird, and inconsistent across the whole army.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Iracundus wrote:
Art always looks better, but GW have moved away from Tyranids holding organic but still conventional looking swords to more clearly biological portrayals.

By other stuff, do you mean things like the Grabber Slasher?

https://wh40k-de.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f1/Grabberslasher.jpg

GW I think moved away from that just as they moved away from the more mutated Chaos stuff. Jes Goodwin's interview said they were going for more army wide consistency in look. The old stuff even if redone, might have made things too lumpy, weird, and inconsistent across the whole army.


That was the big one I was trying to find. I guess they're scattered across the lexicanum?

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman




Omaha, NE

That grabber slasher had a fig, it was a squig. I had it, painted it, and used it.

Like so https://i.pinimg.com/1200x/c7/06/9a/c7069a293d733d072f6e7ce15cd17dcc.jpg

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 15:30:47


Have played 40k since they were called the Imperial Army. 6k IG 10k Nids 2k GSC 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Iracundus wrote:
Art always looks better, but GW have moved away from Tyranids holding organic but still conventional looking swords to more clearly biological portrayals.
The boneswords look about the same level of biological, imo. It's a blade creature held/attatched to the nid arm/hand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ImperialArmy wrote:
That grabber slasher had a fig, it was a squig. I had it, painted it, and used it.

Like so https://i.pinimg.com/1200x/c7/06/9a/c7069a293d733d072f6e7ce15cd17dcc.jpg
^I love the idea of all those random little things. They seem to have all ben turned into Rippers for the modern Nids.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 18:21:39


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Insectum7 wrote:
Imo the early plastic Warriors are the best. They're also surprisingly taller than the current kits. To me they look more alien, and more intelligent.


Personally I quite like the late-2nd Warriors:



I've always felt that the bright colors make the sculpts look a lot goofier than they are- while the banana claws haven't aged well, the designs are a little more aggressive and refined than the plastic Warriors they replaced. I'd love to see a modern take on this design.

The 2nd Ed sculpts in general I think look a lot better in darker colors than the original garish studio scheme.


   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

I too would like to see a 2nd ed inspired redesign. And yeah they look a lot better with the darker theme.

What I have
~4100
~1660

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Haha, I couldn't disagree more my friend! I had a number of those guys back in the day, and I painted them that exact darker scheme . . . And they were still awful!

They'd need a LOT of work to wind up ok I think

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

 Insectum7 wrote:
Haha, I couldn't disagree more my friend! I had a number of those guys back in the day, and I painted them that exact darker scheme . . . And they were still awful!

They'd need a LOT of work to wind up ok I think


The great thing about the Internet is that it's okay to be wrong

But in all seriousness your work on those early 2nd Ed plastics has almost redeemed them for me. What a difference the use of color makes.

I think we both agree that it would be fun to see GW bring back some of the design cues of 2nd Ed. While I liked the 3rd Ed totally-not-an-Alien-Queen design for the Hive Tyrant, upon first seeing the 4th Ed (ie current) Hive Tyrant sculpt I remember being thrilled at how they'd brought back the 2nd Ed Tyrant design with a modern styling.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 catbarf wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Haha, I couldn't disagree more my friend! I had a number of those guys back in the day, and I painted them that exact darker scheme . . . And they were still awful!

They'd need a LOT of work to wind up ok I think


The great thing about the Internet is that it's okay to be wrong

But in all seriousness your work on those early 2nd Ed plastics has almost redeemed them for me. What a difference the use of color makes.

I think we both agree that it would be fun to see GW bring back some of the design cues of 2nd Ed. While I liked the 3rd Ed totally-not-an-Alien-Queen design for the Hive Tyrant, upon first seeing the 4th Ed (ie current) Hive Tyrant sculpt I remember being thrilled at how they'd brought back the 2nd Ed Tyrant design with a modern styling.
Agree with the sentiment and %110 agree on the Hive Tyrant. Imo it's one of the best models of the range and I've got my walkrant armed out just like the ol 2nd ed one. Overall the Tyranids, while most models are pretty nice, could afford to have a little more diversity in their design. For what is essentially a warring ecosystem it's a little bland at times.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

The orcs are the warring ecosystem. The Tyranids are an homogenizing swarm that devours ecosystems.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Tyran wrote:
The orcs are the warring ecosystem. The Tyranids are an homogenizing swarm that devours ecosystems.


The Tyranids are a mobile ecosystem. A predatory ecosystem but still an ecosystem. Back in 3rd edition there were descriptions of how for example the Tyranids "tyrannoform" a planet. Local flora gets infected and goes into rapid growth mode, sucking nutrients from the soil, to then be harvested by Rippers who then either regurgitate it or hurl themselves into digestion pools directly. There are a lot of "non-combat" Tyranids that are ruleswise subsumed under the title of Rippers.

Suicidal Carnifex sized Tyranid creatures drill/dig down to create geothermal areas, with the heat used to change the atmosphere/climate and as a source of energy. Forgeworld produced brood nests, organic structures extending underground that served to produce more Tyranids.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 21:02:29


 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

Iracundus wrote:
The Tyranids are a mobile ecosystem. A predatory ecosystem but still an ecosystem. Back in 3rd edition there were descriptions of how for example the Tyranids "tyrannoform" a planet. Local flora gets infected and goes into rapid growth mode, sucking nutrients from the soil, to then be harvested by Rippers who then either regurgitate it or hurl themselves into digestion pools directly. There are a lot of "non-combat" Tyranids that are ruleswise subsumed under the title of Rippers.

Suicidal Carnifex sized Tyranid creatures drill/dig down to create geothermal areas, with the heat used to change the atmosphere/climate and as a source of energy. Forgeworld produced brood nests, organic structures extending underground that served to produce more Tyranids.


There is no such thing as a "predatory ecosystem". An ecosystem is a naturally occurring system of living organisms and their environment, that tends towards a self-sustaining equilibrium. Moreover it is a "dumb" system born out of chance, relying entirely on diversity to weather change, be it internal or external.

There is nothing natural nor dumb about what the Tyranids do. "Tyrraformation" is a designed process meant to extract resources needed to satisfy the needs of the Hive Fleet. Every element, every creature, every function has been carefully designed down to the atom (which btw is why they look mostly the same). There is no place for diversity in such process (as the Tyranids out-evolved such need), and it leaves dead, barren worlds on its wake, which is antithetical to the concept of an ecosystem.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 21:46:52


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






^Ecosystems do not have to be natural. An ecosystem is just biological organisms interacting with each other and their environment.

As for diversity the Tyranids come in the form of viruses all the way up to space ships, so they have that covered.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

Ecosystems tend towards an equilibrium, Tyranids tend towards exponential expansion. Ecosystems are unguided systems that rely on chance, Tyranids are a guided swarm with intelligent self-design. Ecosystems include predator-prey relationships in which every species and individuals compete against each other for the privilege to reproduce; there is no competition among Tyranid organisms, most of them are not even capable of reproducing.

The diversity in an ecosystem is a product of natural selection, all the shapes and forms life has are because of billions of years of trial and error. Tyranids do not use natural selection, all the forms and shapes found in a Tyranid swarm are by design.

This difference means that in an ecosystem, the same role can be fulfilled by a myriad of different organisms that got there by different evolutive paths. Meanwhile in a Tyranid swarm, each role will be fulfilled a specific organism that was designed for that role. Diversity is the expression of plurality of individuals, while the Tyranids are the expression of the homogeneity of the ultimate individual: the Hive Mind.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 22:13:24


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Tyranids could be seen as part of an ecosystem just operating on a scale almost impossible for us to perceive because their habitat is the greater universe. Not a plant, or a region, or a continent or a planet - but the Universe.

There might well be things that hunt Tyranids or even that compete with them for resources. There might be things that hunt Tyranids; or Tyranids are an apex predator and prey will control their populations; only in this case prey is whole galaxies so it takes a while for Tyranids to eat themselves into a starvation period.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Tyran wrote:
Ecosystems tend towards an equilibrium, Tyranids tend towards exponential expansion. Ecosystems are unguided systems that rely on chance, Tyranids are a guided swarm with intelligent self-design. Ecosystems include predator-prey relationships in which every species and individuals compete against each other for the privilege to reproduce; there is no competition among Tyranid organisms, most of them are not even capable of reproducing.

The diversity in an ecosystem is a product of natural selection, all the shapes and forms life has are because of billions of years of trial and error. Tyranids do not use natural selection, all the forms and shapes found in a Tyranid swarm are by design.

This difference means that in an ecosystem, the same role can be fulfilled by a myriad of different organisms that got there by different evolutive paths. Meanwhile in a Tyranid swarm, each role will be fulfilled a specific organism that was designed for that role. Diversity is the expression of plurality of individuals, while the Tyranids are the expression of the homogeneity of the ultimate individual: the Hive Mind.
I think you're bringing a lot of your own definitions/limitations to what an ecosystem is. I put it to you that an ecosystem neither has to be natural, nor tend towards equilibrium for that matter. Humans have definitely attempted to create their own artificial ecosystems, and certainly will in the future as they colonize space, "unnaturally" altering organisms as they go. And rather than tending towards equilibrium, ecosystems expanded from the ocean and to land, obviously, and will expand as far as they are constrained, continuously evolving new organisms to expand further. . . . The Tyranids are just evolved to a state where they are not even contained by galaxies.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 Insectum7 wrote:
I think you're bringing a lot of your own definitions/limitations to what an ecosystem is. I put it to you that an ecosystem neither has to be natural, nor tend towards equilibrium for that matter. Humans have definitely attempted to create their own artificial ecosystems, and certainly will in the future as they colonize space, "unnaturally" altering organisms as they go. And rather than tending towards equilibrium, ecosystems expanded from the ocean and to land, obviously, and will expand as far as they are constrained, continuously evolving new organisms to expand further. . . . The Tyranids are just evolved to a state where they are not even contained by galaxies.


Even if we go by that, human designed ecosystems are infinitely less diverse than natural ones, and humans still need a modicum of diversity for the sake of genetic stability and resistance. Tyranids do not even need that.
And there is still the issue that Tyranid organisms do not interact with each other in the same way species in an ecosystem do, specially when one considers the whole Hive Mind angle. And from a genetically pov, rather than many different species, they are all one super-species.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/02 22:42:38


 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






^A conscious, self-directed, super-species-ecosystem then. It still consists of multiple organisms that can and will consume themselves to re-configure it's balance.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

I feel that using that definition, everyone is an ecosystem.

But anyway, going back to the root of the issue, Tyranids diversity is limited by function, it is an homogenizing swarm after all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 23:16:13


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

It's more than just functionality



1) Resources. Material and psychic/mental are clearly elements that restrict the free creation of some more advanced Tyranids.

2) Unique Elements. Swarmlord is perhaps the best example of something that has almost totally unique attributes that are preserved within the swarm.

3) Something in their very core. Gaunts are pretty weak and stupid, but genestealers are much smarter. Why not just make genestealers. Clearly there's some element of core design within the Tyranids, almost something that guides their designs down a preconceived pathway of development which focuses and crafts them around a certain type of swarm design. Perhaps something so core and primal within them its how they were originally whenever they started.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Iracundus wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
The orcs are the warring ecosystem. The Tyranids are an homogenizing swarm that devours ecosystems.


The Tyranids are a mobile ecosystem. A predatory ecosystem but still an ecosystem. Back in 3rd edition there were descriptions of how for example the Tyranids "tyrannoform" a planet. Local flora gets infected and goes into rapid growth mode, sucking nutrients from the soil, to then be harvested by Rippers who then either regurgitate it or hurl themselves into digestion pools directly. There are a lot of "non-combat" Tyranids that are ruleswise subsumed under the title of Rippers.

Suicidal Carnifex sized Tyranid creatures drill/dig down to create geothermal areas, with the heat used to change the atmosphere/climate and as a source of energy. Forgeworld produced brood nests, organic structures extending underground that served to produce more Tyranids.


And this is what I expect out Tyranid Crusade content.

I also want all the Tyranid terrain in beautiful new plastic to support Tyrannoforming in game. Give us back Spore Chimneys, Digestion Pools and Capillary Towers! Then give us Crusade rules for planetary invasions.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Tyran wrote:
I feel that using that definition, everyone is an ecosystem.

Technically speaking, anyone can be. If I were tossed to the void in a space suit, myself and all the little critters and bacteria that come along with me definitely become it's own little ecosystem.

 Tyran wrote:
But anyway, going back to the root of the issue, Tyranids diversity is limited by function, it is an homogenizing swarm after all.
You say "homogenizing", but we're still talking life forms ranging from viruses to space craft.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

 Insectum7 wrote:
You say "homogenizing", but we're still talking life forms ranging from viruses to space craft.


But diversity isn't a one dimensional spectrum from virus to spacecraft, it is depth. It is a million different viruses, a million different bacteria, a million different plants, a million different animals, etc.

Tyranids don't need a million different viruses, they need one that is capable of killing every unicellular organism at planetary scales, with optional modifications when going against supernatural pathogens. They don't need a million different plants, they only need one that can drain the soil of mineral resources while radically altering the world's atmosphere. They don't need a million of small sized organisms, they only need rippers. They don't need thousands of mid and large sized organisms, they only need a handful dozens of modular templates.

Devastation of Baal wrote:Even at this corpuscular level, it was a mistake to see the lictor as a lictor, one of millions; there were not many, there was one. The lictor was the lictor. Every iteration was a copy, better than perfect for aeons of improvement, party to the actions, mistakes and successes of every other lictor that had come before. Welded to the very genes of its being were untold millions of years of experience. And it was on Baal just as it was simultaneously on a thousand other worlds throughout the galaxy.


Diversity is variety, but Tyranids don't need variety. They need a tool for each job, and then clone that tool a trillion times a trillion.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2021/08/03 05:05:32


 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: