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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hello gamers,

Just recently I have read the rules for Dropzone Commander. One of the faction which piqued my interest were the Scourge. Those aliens use biomechanical vehicles in combat just like the Cylon Raiders (Starfighters) did in Battlestar Galactica.

So what would you think, if GW would reintroduce biomechanical vehicles for the Tyranids?

Oh and one more thing: Please keep the discussion civil.


Regards
Strg Alt


Edit:
Changed the title due to the fact that Tyranids had in Epic creatures which resembled vehicles. So the term "Retcon" was misleading.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 17:55:01


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Some of the early Tyranids do have a touch of Bio-mechanical appearance. The first edition biovore has a mechanical looking cannon and a few of the tyranids from Epic (eg the Exocrine) look a little tank like at that scale.

Tyranids do also have bio-weapons and, again, going back they were a touch more biomechanical. In fact early Tyranids almost all held their weapons, today they are almost all fused to the hands in some form.


So there is the ground work there, however I just don't see it happening. It would be a vast re-design and really eat into the role and position of things like the Carnifex in the army to start giving them biomechanical tanks.


Now Genestealer Cults might, but I don't see it happening. The army with bio-mechs/tanks is Chaos in 40K and I figure that's likely going to remain their thing


Personally I'm sure GW would do awesome tyranid tanks, but I sort of prefer if the bio-mech remains Chaos and the Tyranids remain conceptually as they are.

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Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

Nids are biomechanical looking already.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I like my tyranids as bioweapons rather than biomechanical. I think biomechanical is covered already as mentioned above by Chaos Daemon engines and Admech (and possibly Dark Mech in the future?).

I'd rather see nids double down on the purely biological theme.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Oh Lordy no. No no no.

The whole point is that they’re entirely organic.

Sure, they’ll incorporate minerals and that into chitin, but not replace chitin with metal. That would require further resources (smelting and refining processes, shaping it and so on). Given what they can do with flesh, that’s a significant waste of resources for frankly negligeble at best gain.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




My big question would be: why? Some other game system doing it doesn't seem like any sort of justification and it's not like Tyranids don't already have a well-developed background as it is. What would be gained by changing the background for them? How would it improve anything? What's wrong with the current background?
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

What Slipspace said. Just because another game has that theme doesn't mean Tyranids have to be retconned to match.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





@Slipspace:

Justification for Retcons? GW doesn't need any.

They see nice stuff from other sources and incorporate it into their brand. Not an alien concept at all. In fact most of the stuff you see in 40K are stolen ideas from other franchises.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Strg Alt wrote:
@Slipspace:

Justification for Retcons? GW doesn't need any.

They see nice stuff from other sources and incorporate it into their brand. Not an alien concept at all. In fact most of the stuff you see in 40K are stolen ideas from other franchises.


While the early influences for the creation of 40k and WHFB are pretty obvious it's a pretty well-trodden, tiresome and overblown meme at this point that GW stole all their ideas. It's more like a cross-contamination of a lot of social and cultural influences from people at the same time, especially where 40k is concerned. Also, once established, there haven't been too many major changes to the 40k lore since the end of 2nd edition. The onloy big ones I can think of are the complete retcon of the Necrons (which didn't go down too well) and the introduction of Dark Eldar and Tau. That still leaves the question of why they'd change established lore for Tyranids when there's nothing wrong with it.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





I’m all for the idea. The unit can cost 350 points and have BS 4+ and a 5+ armour save.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

I think it would detract from the identity of the Tyranids. We've already got all manner of biomechanical stuff in 40k (Admech, DE Coven, bionics, arguably some Chaos stuff etc.), what really makes Tyranids stand out is that they're entirely organic.


But just on this train of thought, I wouldn't necessarily object to Tyranids having organic "vehicles". However, I think they should be akin to the Tervigon (albeit hopefully with better rules) or the SC2 Broodlord. i.e. leaning more towards spawners than transports.

What I really don't want to see is Tyranid vehicles being piloted by Warriors or something. Necrons have already been treated to that garbage and I'd really prefer to not see more of it.

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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




If there is a retcon for Tiranids y hope they can became parents and form their own little families... A small baby Carnifex will be cute
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

They have done tyranids riding tyranids in the Dominatrix which appears to have had two lore descriptions

1) The creature sitting on the throne atop was: a Norn Queen* and was basically a huge physic powerhouse that was physically weaker which thus rode atop the mighty dominatrix titan.

b) The creature sitting atop was a warrior that was aiming the main cannon atop its back.

2) The original Tervigon (might have been called something else back then?) in Epic which was a transport which housed the Tyranids within it

3) The Harridain has an optional set of gargoyles that are mounted underneath it

5) The drop-pods of course, which are fully current.


Tyranids have long had "riders". Venom sacs and adrenal glands are both technically riders ; with the 4th edition cover art for the codex showing venom sac spiders running along with the swarm ready to latch onto and deliver boosting performance ot the Tyranids.
Many of the guns have "eye" sockets on the side; the biovore canon is "held" by the boivore. Over time some of these have become far more "melted" into one.
Eg if you look at generation 1 tyranids they are all visibly holding their weapons. By the 2nd and 3rd (current) generations they are almost all melded with their guns. Some to the point where their claws are totally lost to the melding.



Which is how Tyranids have often done riders. So its never so much a pilot/rider, but rather a melding of one or more very specific creatures with specific roles that work together.

*Note this is old lore and Norn Queens are much changed from it. I believe it might even be lore only printed in a White Dwarf or so released around the time of Epic 40K when they did Tyranids. It might have also appeared in an early Codex for 40K once but I can't recall.

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Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

I much prefer nids as a purely biological species. But if they wanted to bring out a biomechanical alien species like the Rak'Gol from the roleplaying games, I'd be interested in collecting a few of them.

   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





Edit:

Changed the title. See first post why.

In Nomine Imperatoris had rules for the following creatures in 3rd.

Malefactor:
Transports small creatures into battle like an APC.

Dactylis:
Hurls spore mines over a large distance via two large arms like artillery.

Exocrine:
Creature which is used by the swarm as a ranged, anti- tank organism.

Trygon:
Massive beast bred for close-combat.

Haruspex:
Designed for short-ranged firefights.

Harridan:
Carries gargoyles into battle.


The usual means of propulsion for these creatures were with the exception of the Harridan either by feet like that of a caterpillar or by gliding with a slug-like body. New creature vehicles could float above the battlefield like venomthropes or by psionic means to add variety to the whole swarm.








Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Vipoid:

Agreed. Necrons driving their vehicles like pedal boats look pretty dumb. As I said in my initial post the biomechanical vehicles should be more akin to the Cylon Raiders of BSG.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 18:15:24


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Annandale, VA

Those weren't 'vehicles' per se; they were designed as superheavy tank equivalents for Tyranids, with the slug form being at least in part due to the sculpting limitations of the scale.

The Haruspex, Exocrine, and Trygon were brought back in 40K with new (and smaller) designs that more closely resemble the existing Carnifex kit, and the Harridan has a resin model that is closer to 'dragon' than 'winged APC'.

If the Dactylis or Malefactor come back, I'd expect them to be more like the other monstrous creatures.

   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






I am currently building up a tyranid army, they are all cybernetically enhances bugs. the models are iron hive by the makers cult that fit the bill, though i am mixing and matching these 3d printed parts with actual models for more of an organic cyborg tyranid mix

https://www.cgtrader.com/3d-print-models/miniatures/sci-fi/iron-hive-warriors-set-1

10000 points 7000
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Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






I’m kinda torn on a hypothetical return to tank shaped tank bugs.

On one hand, Nids have more or less formalised bio form. Six appendages, tail, bulbous bonce and their chitin shape. Bigger bugs have increasing numbers of vents to aid with temperature regulation. I like that, as it adds a single design language to a pretty out-there army.

On the other? I wouldn’t mind tank bugs looking like their original Epic incarnations. As if the standard Nid Bioform has biological size limitations, so an entirely different species is grown into the big stuff.

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Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






What makes a vehicle a vehicle? Imo the Tyrannocyte is more or less a nid "vehicle". But it's still just a big organism, as all nid constructs/entities should be.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

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Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m kinda torn on a hypothetical return to tank shaped tank bugs.

On one hand, Nids have more or less formalised bio form. Six appendages, tail, bulbous bonce and their chitin shape. Bigger bugs have increasing numbers of vents to aid with temperature regulation. I like that, as it adds a single design language to a pretty out-there army.

On the other? I wouldn’t mind tank bugs looking like their original Epic incarnations. As if the standard Nid Bioform has biological size limitations, so an entirely different species is grown into the big stuff.

I think nids were done some justice with their epic incarnations. They really felt like a bio-mechanical(in as much as human are bio-mechanical) collective of organisms specifically created to do a job.
Mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery. The bugs have never run up against a baneblade/shadowsword etc.. see what wonderous devastation it brings and Naturally wants to emulate that with the library of DNA to pick/choose from. Granted the logistical restrictions/advantages of both are taken into consideration.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

Definition of biomechanical: relating to the mechanical laws concerning the movement or structure of living organisms. Tyranids are already biomechanical, any living organism capable of movement is biomechanical.

As for Tyranids with a more "vehicular" form, that wouldn't look good at the 28mm scale, and honestly it would come as miniature bloat as Tyranid monsters already serve as equivalents to vehicles.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/21 21:54:23


 
   
Made in us
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





There wouldn't have to be a retcon for this to happen, since Tyranids could just build a new organism from absorbing something else. Imagine if they ended up consuming something like a maulerfiend.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





yeah no reason to re-invent the 'nids, that said some sort of "tyranid carrier organism" that basicly acts as a transport for gaunts could be an intreasting unit idea

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
There wouldn't have to be a retcon for this to happen, since Tyranids could just build a new organism from absorbing something else. Imagine if they ended up consuming something like a maulerfiend.


Thing is Chaos things, when they die, tend to dissolve back into the Warp. Plus part of what makes them "work" is the forces and energies of Chaos itself.

Take most of Nurgle's forces, they are mutated, infected, puss filled and oozing with maggots. They should be doubled over in pain and even if they can ignore that, they'd be physically crippled - yet they aren't. At least they aren't when the forces of Chaos are with them. Plus Chaos demons, when they die, return to the Warp. I would wager Chaos engines of war would either fully return, or just leave a pile of machine bits that won't work because the organics and what controlled them are gone.


Heck there's one hive fleet that has to pre-digest worlds for another because the latter is fighting Demon infested worlds and basically has no instant biomass to replenish its swarm from.
Plus lets not forget Tyranids en-mass project an anti-warp field (or rather the Shadow in the Warp drives back the demons in the warp).

The best Tyranids can do is out-evolve Chaos in an arms race, but they can't take Chaos and use it for themselves. Tyranids are just incompatible with the warp to the point where some have theorized that Tyranids might be the galactic answer to Chaos. A bit like the white-blood-cells of the universe. A force drawn to Chaos energies (and those which manipulate them) which purges them. Lets face it Chaos relies on emotional drive, if Tyranids consume all in the Milky Way then even with Warp Rifts, there's nothing for the Warp to latch onto.

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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

Here is the most important question: "why?"

What problems does this address? How is the faction better off with this implemented then before?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I like the fact that the Exocrine went from this to this.

Fits more with the aesthetic of the Tyranid army. Why would we want to regress, or make things more mechanical. We already have Daemon Engines. Why do we need another race doing something similar?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 23:26:42


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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:
yeah no reason to re-invent the 'nids, that said some sort of "tyranid carrier organism" that basicly acts as a transport for gaunts could be an intreasting unit idea


That APC creature was already created back in Epic Hive War. It was the Malefactor and could carry 10. More useful to carry something harder hitting such as Genestealers.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





They weren't more vehicular, they were more sluglike - ie they had no limbs.

I don't see anything wrong with specialised organisms having been bred without limbs. It's kind of boring if every tyranid is built around the same body plan.

Heavily armour plated slugs with huge cannons is pretty cool to me.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'd love nothing more than the Dactylis and Malefactor to come back to the Tyranids. Even do it as a dual kit like the Haruspex/Exocrine.

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 Strg Alt wrote:
Hello gamers,

Just recently I have read the rules for Dropzone Commander. One of the faction which piqued my interest were the Scourge. Those aliens use biomechanical vehicles in combat just like the Cylon Raiders (Starfighters) did in Battlestar Galactica.

So what would you think, if GW would reintroduce biomechanical vehicles for the Tyranids?

Oh and one more thing: Please keep the discussion civil.


Regards
Strg Alt


Edit:
Changed the title due to the fact that Tyranids had in Epic creatures which resembled vehicles. So the term "Retcon" was misleading.


I love DZC! Wish it had caught on more, 'cause I have a bunch of it and nobody to play with except demo games. UCM FTW.

That said, I'm pretty sure the Scourge vehicles are actually just vehicles, they're not bugs or anything. They're made in factories and such. They've got manufactured organic components to allow a Scourge organism to interface with and control like it would control a true organic creature, but the tank in itself isn't a Scourge lifeform, it's an armored box that a Scourge lifeform is riding inside and operating.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 02:05:43


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
 
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