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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Southern New Hampshire

 Nicorex wrote:
 CMLR wrote:
 Nicorex wrote:
I am just surprised that they are releasing a miniature (Infernal Master) that is supposed to be this great summoner of deamons but did not include a unit of deamons in the box. Hell one set of Screamers, would have been perfect.


Technically, he is summoning screamers right now, you know.


Which is why it would have been a great idea to have a unit of screamers in the box.


Makes me wonder what this means for daemon summoning in general.

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 Nicorex wrote:
I am just surprised that they are releasing a miniature (Infernal Master) that is supposed to be this great summoner of deamons but did not include a unit of deamons in the box. Hell one set of Screamers, would have been perfect.
Seriously, nothing on the Chaos side even has the deamon keyword. So why are the GreyKnights even there? Also the Chaos side loses the psykic battle with fewer psykers on the field giving the GK's more deny's.

The Tzaangor Shaman has the daemon keyword because of his disk. :V

If the box had screamers in it you wouldn't be able to run them in a detachment with the Thousand Sons units so it'd be pretty pointless.
   
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I love the idea of a GK vs TS box.

The new character models however have the same problem many new GW models have, at least for me, in that they're too busy. There's too much stuff and detail. I don't want to deal with or paint the flame effects on Crowe's sword. Having flames and magical effects physically modeled all around and over the Sorceror is annoying. Adding extra detail or gribblies on a lot of this is just visual noise. It's stuff that takes a lot of extra time to paint, requires a very different painting texture than the rest of the piece, and often isn't appreciated or helpful at a tabletop level. GW likes to do a lot of extras to show off their plastic prowess, but a lot of it turns me off because it means substantially more painting time and effort. They're often also bits that like to get snagged on stuff and break or make the model too awkward to fit into a typical foam case spot. I really prefer Crowe's old glowing blade to the new smoke and flame engulfed incarnation.

Doesn't look like there will be much new on the GK front in terms of models for the most part if they're not getting Primaris-ized, which is ok for me as my GK's are entirely Terminators and I kinda like that old school force composition, though it does tell us GW doesn't feel any urgency to cycle the GK line the way they did the SM line.

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 Arachnofiend wrote:
If the box had screamers in it you wouldn't be able to run them in a detachment with the Thousand Sons units so it'd be pretty pointless.
I keep forgetting that Chaos players get punished for taking units from their own Codex.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 02:29:04


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re: GK's not getting their size upgrade, it seems GW is sticking to its fluff guns (for now at least) by still adhering to the statement made that the Grey Knights are a perfect creation of the Emperor and not to be tampered with by Cawl.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 06:19:10


 
   
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 Vaktathi wrote:
I love the idea of a GK vs TS box.

The new character models however have the same problem many new GW models have, at least for me, in that they're too busy. There's too much stuff and detail. I don't want to deal with or paint the flame effects on Crowe's sword. Having flames and magical effects physically modeled all around and over the Sorceror is annoying. Adding extra detail or gribblies on a lot of this is just visual noise. It's stuff that takes a lot of extra time to paint, requires a very different painting texture than the rest of the piece, and often isn't appreciated or helpful at a tabletop level. GW likes to do a lot of extras to show off their plastic prowess, but a lot of it turns me off because it means substantially more painting time and effort. They're often also bits that like to get snagged on stuff and break or make the model too awkward to fit into a typical foam case spot. I really prefer Crowe's old glowing blade to the new smoke and flame engulfed incarnation.

Doesn't look like there will be much new on the GK front in terms of models for the most part if they're not getting Primaris-ized, which is ok for me as my GK's are entirely Terminators and I kinda like that old school force composition, though it does tell us GW doesn't feel any urgency to cycle the GK line the way they did the SM line.


The new Be’lakor model would be perfect if his sword didn’t have poorly sculpted soul vapors attached to it permanently. I’d rather have had an option for a normal sword instead of 3 slightly different mouth options and an extra left arm.
   
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 BrookM wrote:
re: GK's not getting their size upgrade, it seems GW is sticking to its fluff guns (for now at least) by still adhering to the statement made that the Grey Knights are a perfect creation of the Emperor and not to be tampered with by Cawl.

That's alright. People don't want Primaris GK when they talk about new models, they want them resized similar to CSM. See the new Crowe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/27 06:33:51


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As a GK player, the new Crowe model is a must-have even if its shelved due to its measly rules.
The rest of the GK in the box is more suited for a GK-beginner.

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 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 Nicorex wrote:
 CMLR wrote:
 Nicorex wrote:
I am just surprised that they are releasing a miniature (Infernal Master) that is supposed to be this great summoner of deamons but did not include a unit of deamons in the box. Hell one set of Screamers, would have been perfect.


Technically, he is summoning screamers right now, you know.


Which is why it would have been a great idea to have a unit of screamers in the box.


Makes me wonder what this means for daemon summoning in general.

I think there is a strong chance there will be no rule to allow summoning of daemons in the new daemon codex and instead we might see DG/TSon/World Eater/Emperors Children/Word Bearer armies of renown that allow the mixing of daemons and mortals.
   
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a_typical_hero wrote:
 BrookM wrote:
re: GK's not getting their size upgrade, it seems GW is sticking to its fluff guns (for now at least) by still adhering to the statement made that the Grey Knights are a perfect creation of the Emperor and not to be tampered with by Cawl.

That's alright. People don't want Primaris GK when they talk about new models, they want them resized similar to CSM. See the new Crowe.


resized yes, hopefully gw will remember to count to the max squad size multiple times though for the baseline equipment choices unlike with the CSMs.....
nobody should suffer 8 boltguns /7 pistols and chainswords in a 10 man box.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

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Perhaps the new k-sons dex actually provide 12" warp flamers, and with teleportation trixies will turn out bonkers -so natrually they wont put rubrics in a discount box.

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Spoiler:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the 'baby carrier' could have been so much better. Look at one of the original pieces of artwork:



See how the Terminator isn't just hanging there. His legs, much like the new SoB Nundam suits, are integrated into the Dreadknight's legs?

I'm convinced that this would be a model everyone loves rather than one that gets constant ridicule 11 years since its release.


Not mine.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/27 14:17:49


   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Not mine.

Spoiler:
That's probably the smoothest conversion of the dreadknight I've seen.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:
Spoiler:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the 'baby carrier' could have been so much better. Look at one of the original pieces of artwork:



See how the Terminator isn't just hanging there. His legs, much like the new SoB Nundam suits, are integrated into the Dreadknight's legs?

I'm convinced that this would be a model everyone loves rather than one that gets constant ridicule 11 years since its release.


Not mine.

Awesome conversion!
   
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lol so GW is already going to do another FOMO box...

Well clearly this trend is just ramping up. So mid fall should see another box with either a limited codex tucked inside or another two factions with new models/units hidden in with old trash.

As someone else said previously, at least thats two more armies down (both power armor again unfortunately)

   
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 Nicorex wrote:
 CMLR wrote:
 Nicorex wrote:
I am just surprised that they are releasing a miniature (Infernal Master) that is supposed to be this great summoner of deamons but did not include a unit of deamons in the box. Hell one set of Screamers, would have been perfect.


Technically, he is summoning screamers right now, you know.


Which is why it would have been a great idea to have a unit of screamers in the box.

Just wait till they do a battlebox with him and loads of Pink Horrors

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 Red Corsair wrote:
lol so GW is already going to do another FOMO box...
To be fair though, what exactly would one be missing out on? 11 year old GK minis?

I'm more concerned about missing out on the Crusade stuff.

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Southern New Hampshire

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
lol so GW is already going to do another FOMO box...
To be fair though, what exactly would one be missing out on? 11 year old GK minis?

I'm more concerned about missing out on the Crusade stuff.


Ditto. I could totally wait for the Infernal Master to be released on his own, but I want the Crusade stuff.

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To those of you who hate the Dreadknight, I'm sure there are plenty of 3d printable conversions to make it enclosed instead of the stock design that everyone except me seems to hate.

As for me and this box set, I don't play GK or TS so my wallet can continue to rest for a while. Although I will say that the new Crowe model is awesome, and so is the new Sorcerer guy for the Tsons.

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Red Corsair wrote:
lol so GW is already going to do another FOMO box...
To be fair though, what exactly would one be missing out on? 11 year old GK minis?

I'm more concerned about missing out on the Crusade stuff.


Indeed, 11 years old GK minis. I have a full painted GK army but this is indeed a liability.

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Will be very interested to see how this goes down – feel like putting the new Crowe model in with old power-armoured GKs just serves to emphasise how tired the non-upscaled, non-Primaris Marines are looking these days, and wonder if that's going to put people off.

Personally, it's nice that for once they're doing one of these boxes (and the next two Codices) with two factions I've no interest in, as it means I can catch up on my backlog for a bit without getting distracted by the latest shiny thing.
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the 'baby carrier' could have been so much better. Look at one of the original pieces of artwork:

See how the Terminator isn't just hanging there. His legs, much like the new SoB Nundam suits, are integrated into the Dreadknight's legs?

I'm convinced that this would be a model everyone loves rather than one that gets constant ridicule 11 years since its release.


Even that art looks derpy to me but then I never liked the whole concept in general; just never felt like it was necessary or thematic for Grey Knights when Dreadnaughts already exist. Maybe if it was a fully enclosed canopy for the pilot? Having someone in nigh-invulnerable terminator armour bundled around in another armoured harness is just a bit of 'hat on a hat' situation for me.
   
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JimmyWolf87 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but the 'baby carrier' could have been so much better. Look at one of the original pieces of artwork:

See how the Terminator isn't just hanging there. His legs, much like the new SoB Nundam suits, are integrated into the Dreadknight's legs?

I'm convinced that this would be a model everyone loves rather than one that gets constant ridicule 11 years since its release.


Even that art looks derpy to me but then I never liked the whole concept in general; just never felt like it was necessary or thematic for Grey Knights when Dreadnaughts already exist. Maybe if it was a fully enclosed canopy for the pilot? Having someone in nigh-invulnerable terminator armour bundled around in another armoured harness is just a bit of 'hat on a hat' situation for me.


I guess it's to allow GK to battle greater deamons who are in general much larger than SM. A Terminator doesn't have much chance in a sword fight against a daemon three times his height.

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Yea, that's explicitly what it has been since first released.
   
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But a Greater Demon can just punch the hideously exposed pilot in his unhelmeted face, killing him instantly and making the entire Baby Carrier entirely pointless.

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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
But a Greater Demon can just punch the hideously exposed pilot in his unhelmeted face, killing him instantly and making the entire Baby Carrier entirely pointless.


Two different posters, I know, but I love how it's split between "this is useless! Terminator armor already provides enough protection!" and "but the terminator is exposed, so it offers no protection!"

The idea is to be able to sword/hammer fight the daemon, with parries and whatnot.
   
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And as the newer GD models have come out it makes even more sense. Draigo looks ridiculous supposedly fighting something that has a 20ft reach on him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And as the newer GD models have come out it makes even more sense. Draigo looks ridiculous supposedly fighting something that has a 20ft reach on him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 15:22:51


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I am remembered of this q&a with ADB in light of The Emperor's Gift (at https://www.google.com/amp/s/aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/2011/12/20/questions-answered/amp/):



Q: “Although there are a number of reasons I say this (im sure you have heard the rage before) the one that set me off was the Grey Knight Dreadknight, which on a personal level I feel looks like a giant baby carrier, something my local GW Manager will not let me say out loud in his shop (I hate those Deomcracies of one). But the justification for the model and concept was ‘wouldnt it be great for Astartes to go toe to toe with a Demon, when all previous lore, and I think a fairly central theme to 40k is the idea that humanity isnt going toe to toe with anyone, everything prior to this model is the one guy, normally with a massive hammer holding out against impossible odds against things bigger, meaner and probably way better in bed that he has ever been.”

A: About going toe-to-toe… That’s true, sure. Going toe-to-toe against helpless odds is where the pathos is, I guess. I wouldn’t dispute that, but I don’t think it means the Dreadknight has no place at all. It’s just a new dynamic. It’s not any one person’s place to say whether something is Absolutely Right or Absolutely Wrong for the setting. 40K is all about shades of grey, and a billion possibilities.

Personally, the Dreadknight is one of the aspects of the Grey Knight changes that I’m not putting in the novel. It’s not that I think the concept sucks, or anything. It’s purely a matter that (like you, but less… angry) it diverges from what I like about that particular aspect of 40K. As writers, we’re all free to put in and take out what we like and dislike about the setting, by focusing on what we enjoy.

For me, when it comes to fighting daemons in 40K, it’s a seminal and quintessential deal of the whole license. It’s the lone man with a broken sword, fighting through his wounds against a creature twenty times his size. It’s that cold, cold moment when he looks up… and up… and up… and realises he’s absolutely fethed. He’s going to die. But he has faith, and he has a hammer, and he’s the only one left to hold the line. Being equal to the daemons isn’t something that interests me, but I can see why a Grey Knight would invent the Dreadknight. I just prefer the Warhammer: Mark of Chaos trailer-style daemon fight, or Inquisitor Rex standing against the towering form of An’ggrath, or Gandalf against the Balrog.

You’ll notice Gandalf doesn’t try to kill the Balrog. He shouts “You shall not pass.” He’s holding the line, not trying to carve his name in its heart. They’re both 40K-style actions, it’s just that one resonates with me more.

   
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And then Gandalf kills the balrog in an epic sword/magic battle and returns as Gandalf the White, which is a tiny bit more than holding the line.

But also the Balrog is man-sized in the books, if I recall right. Only in the movie is Gandalf holding the line against a beast 20 times his size, and yes, even then, he sword fights it to death and becomes even more powerful.

Where was ADB going with this?

edit: to be clear on my stance, I do prefer the look/style of the Paragon Warsuits to how the dreadknight is designed. I'm just saying, the narrative justification makes sense for a big walker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 15:42:00


 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Arachnofiend wrote:
If the box had screamers in it you wouldn't be able to run them in a detachment with the Thousand Sons units so it'd be pretty pointless.
I keep forgetting that Chaos players get punished for taking units from their own Codex.


Honest question, as I don't own the (current) Thousand Sons 'dex - are Screamers in there?

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This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

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