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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





If GW considers 'we don't have marines in light green and yellow yet' enough of a niche to justify a whole new army, then there is a huge opportunity for xenos armies to get new forces.


   
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Never Forget Isstvan!






You mean like the massive additions for Necrons, Orks, Craftworlds and GSC? Or T'au which have a very modern up to date range?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
You mean like the massive additions for Necrons, Orks, Craftworlds and GSC? Or T'au which have a very modern up to date range?


Model range updates aren't new factions.

Spears of the emperor are a new faction.

So, we should be able to see plenty of new factions for everyone else as well.

   
Made in gb
Never Forget Isstvan!






Are you talking about the Emperor's Spears Chapter or are you talking about Custodes/SoS? Because one of those is a WD/Lt Ed book release only subfaction and Custodes/SoS have been in the background for longer than many Xenos armies. The only Imperial army so far this Edition that has got more releases than a Xenos army has been Space Marines, which doesn't count because Space Marines are basically their own entire range. The assertation that Xenos never get anything new only works if you flat out ignore updated models or diversified product ranges and things like GSC which were entirely new (except the actual Genestealers).
   
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 Gert wrote:
You mean like the massive additions for Necrons, Orks, Craftworlds and GSC? Or T'au which have a very modern up to date range?

... the only recent addition to cwe is the double ranger bike. Oh, and they've made plastic, more detailed versions of a handful of units that were nearing or exceeding 20 years of age I guess. That's a single addition, a long-overdue refreshing of kits and a lot of neglect in my book, but you do you.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Awesome idea for a thread. I've got a couple of ideas knocking around, some fluff related, others mechanics related.

- A null based army, xeno or otherwise. I think the concept can be more inventive than the sisters of silence. Like really dial up the whole "difficult to be seen and makes everyone uncomfortable" vibe, not just the anti-psyker stuff. I always thought that one of the lost Primarchs sound have been a blank, with his legion being like 10% blanks. He was culled as he could see through Big E's glamour and saw him for what he really was; just another would be tyrant. And he could have controlled his null ability, like contracting it be almost unnoticeable or expanding it out to battlefield size. The null marines would have organised into jump or teleporting squads that try to disrupt the enemy army landing in the centre of their formation. Anyway, I'm rambling. So they could have mechanics like forcing nearby enemy units to only target/charge the closest unit, remove aura abilities, etc.

- An xeno coalition race, like the covenant in Halo. So lots of different races all banded together for whatever reason. Could be a noble-bright space democracy or some sort of leader race and cast based system (too similar to Tau then though?). With each race only needing 1-3 units it would give the designers lots of room to come up with all sorts of aliens. Can also add in some existing races like kroot.

- An xeno race that can either reincarnate or has some sort of ability to commune with their ancestors. So family ties etc is very important to them. First contact with the IoM predictably had some marines doing a 'shoot first' action that has permanently offended them so they have declared a war of extinction against all humans. As they can reincarnate , their elites/leader units are simply the ones with the most experience. So the low level mooks are only on their first life, while the general is on their 200th.

- A race made of controller units and drone units. The fluff for this is unimportant, could be robots or insects or maybe fit the enslavers? So the majority of your army is made up of drone units, who on their own are pretty terrible. But each turn, each controller unit can select one drone unit to 'assume direct control' which massively buffs them and unlocks different abilities/special rules. A drone unit under direct control is quite OP for its points. But you'll only ever have 25% of your army buffed like that, choosing different units each turn. So the challenge is knowing who to buff and when. I realise this may not work so well in an IGYG type game as there is no reason for your opponent to not just wipe out the unbuffed drones units on their turn, but its the seed of an idea I believe.
EDIT - The drone units defence/save could be unaffected by 'direct control', and these can be fairly typical for the points cost of the unit. Instead, it only buffs their attacking powers which are otherwise really weak. So this gets away from your opponent wiping your unbuffed units each turn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 21:48:21


 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut







Umbra when?
   
Made in ca
Sureshot Kroot Hunter





 Fergie0044 wrote:
Awesome idea for a thread. I've got a couple of ideas knocking around, some fluff related, others mechanics related.

- A null based army, xeno or otherwise. I think the concept can be more inventive than the sisters of silence. Like really dial up the whole "difficult to be seen and makes everyone uncomfortable" vibe, not just the anti-psyker stuff. I always thought that one of the lost Primarchs sound have been a blank, with his legion being like 10% blanks. He was culled as he could see through Big E's glamour and saw him for what he really was; just another would be tyrant. And he could have controlled his null ability, like contracting it be almost unnoticeable or expanding it out to battlefield size. The null marines would have organised into jump or teleporting squads that try to disrupt the enemy army landing in the centre of their formation. Anyway, I'm rambling. So they could have mechanics like forcing nearby enemy units to only target/charge the closest unit, remove aura abilities, etc.

- An xeno coalition race, like the covenant in Halo. So lots of different races all banded together for whatever reason. Could be a noble-bright space democracy or some sort of leader race and cast based system (too similar to Tau then though?). With each race only needing 1-3 units it would give the designers lots of room to come up with all sorts of aliens. Can also add in some existing races like kroot.

- An xeno race that can either reincarnate or has some sort of ability to commune with their ancestors. So family ties etc is very important to them. First contact with the IoM predictably had some marines doing a 'shoot first' action that has permanently offended them so they have declared a war of extinction against all humans. As they can reincarnate , their elites/leader units are simply the ones with the most experience. So the low level mooks are only on their first life, while the general is on their 200th.

- A race made of controller units and drone units. The fluff for this is unimportant, could be robots or insects or maybe fit the enslavers? So the majority of your army is made up of drone units, who on their own are pretty terrible. But each turn, each controller unit can select one drone unit to 'assume direct control' which massively buffs them and unlocks different abilities/special rules. A drone unit under direct control is quite OP for its points. But you'll only ever have 25% of your army buffed like that, choosing different units each turn. So the challenge is knowing who to buff and when. I realise this may not work so well in an IGYG type game as there is no reason for your opponent to not just wipe out the unbuffed drones units on their turn, but its the seed of an idea I believe.



Null idea sounds cool, but feels like it would be really hard to balance vs something like Thousand Sons or Grey Knights.

They should just expand on Tau auxiliaries, no reason to make this a whole other races thing as well.

Sounds cool lore wise, but how would that play distinctly on the tabletop?

I've heard this one before and always been a fan. Feels like it would be a good fit for the Men of Iron if they ever came back.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/24 21:44:18


13317 4614 3375 2344 2976 1106 1755
1340 1185 1005 1180 1030  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
You mean like the massive additions for Necrons, Orks, Craftworlds and GSC? Or T'au which have a very modern up to date range?


Tau need auxiliaries and the other species they have expanded to be fluff-accurate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gert wrote:
Even when you get a bunch of updates to old kits that people have been clamoring for years to get updated, you Eldar players still find ways to moan and whine about it.


Get off your gak. Astartes getting an order of magnitude more support then some other factions is worth complaining about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Umbra when?


They're in Infinity lol

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/25 00:28:16


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





I don't really think there is any reason to add new factions, let alone the time it would take to flesh out every aspect of it.
   
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Fergie0044 wrote:
Awesome idea for a thread. I've got a couple of ideas knocking around, some fluff related, others mechanics related.

- A null based army, xeno or otherwise. I think the concept can be more inventive than the sisters of silence. Like really dial up the whole "difficult to be seen and makes everyone uncomfortable" vibe, not just the anti-psyker stuff. I always thought that one of the lost Primarchs sound have been a blank, with his legion being like 10% blanks. He was culled as he could see through Big E's glamour and saw him for what he really was; just another would be tyrant. And he could have controlled his null ability, like contracting it be almost unnoticeable or expanding it out to battlefield size. The null marines would have organised into jump or teleporting squads that try to disrupt the enemy army landing in the centre of their formation. Anyway, I'm rambling. So they could have mechanics like forcing nearby enemy units to only target/charge the closest unit, remove aura abilities, etc.




Necron Pariahs.


- An xeno coalition race, like the covenant in Halo. So lots of different races all banded together for whatever reason. Could be a noble-bright space democracy or some sort of leader race and cast based system (too similar to Tau then though?). With each race only needing 1-3 units it would give the designers lots of room to come up with all sorts of aliens. Can also add in some existing races like kroot.


You literally just described the Tau. This is exactly what the Tau are.

- An xeno race that can either reincarnate or has some sort of ability to commune with their ancestors. So family ties etc is very important to them. First contact with the IoM predictably had some marines doing a 'shoot first' action that has permanently offended them so they have declared a war of extinction against all humans. As they can reincarnate , their elites/leader units are simply the ones with the most experience. So the low level mooks are only on their first life, while the general is on their 200th.


Oh boy this can go one of two ways:
-Craftworld. They commune with their ancestors via the Infinity Circuit. They reincarnate via sticking soulstones into wraith bodies. You can maybe make this interesting and do Exodites instead and then play up these aspects.
-Necrons. Don't really commune with their ancestors so much as they have interactive recordings of them/they upload their brains/souls into computer things. But they definitely reincarnate, and every time they do they kinda lose a bit of themselves and become a bit more of an automaton based on the recent novels.

- A race made of controller units and drone units. The fluff for this is unimportant, could be robots or insects or maybe fit the enslavers? So the majority of your army is made up of drone units, who on their own are pretty terrible. But each turn, each controller unit can select one drone unit to 'assume direct control' which massively buffs them and unlocks different abilities/special rules. A drone unit under direct control is quite OP for its points. But you'll only ever have 25% of your army buffed like that, choosing different units each turn. So the challenge is knowing who to buff and when. I realise this may not work so well in an IGYG type game as there is no reason for your opponent to not just wipe out the unbuffed drones units on their turn, but its the seed of an idea I believe.
EDIT - The drone units defence/save could be unaffected by 'direct control', and these can be fairly typical for the points cost of the unit. Instead, it only buffs their attacking powers which are otherwise really weak. So this gets away from your opponent wiping your unbuffed units each turn.




I mean pretty much Tau, but also Tyranids - mechanically you just described Synapse Creatures (I.E. "controllers") vs the rest of the army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 13:03:11


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Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in gb
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London

The Hrud feel like the existing race that would be scalable up to something more interesting and could have some unique mechanics. Their time/entropy manipulation could lead to something different, though I feel like you end up with something that's not easy for new players to use effectively like Genestealer Cults.
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 The Phazer wrote:
The Hrud feel like the existing race that would be scalable up to something more interesting and could have some unique mechanics. Their time/entropy manipulation could lead to something different, though I feel like you end up with something that's not easy for new players to use effectively like Genestealer Cults.


I remember many years ago there were a lot of rumours going around about the Hrud but in the form of a 'Space Skaven' type faction. I know eventually there was the Xenobiology book release that painted the Hrud as a kind of swamp thing creature, but some years before that.

I wonder if this was any substance to this rumour and there were any concept drawings or anything like that?

The Mantic Veer-myn faction showed it could have looked pretty good, and actually many of the old Skaven designs had a lot of mechanical contraptions - so conceptually it wouldn't have been a massive leap, I always thought.

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Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

Gonna be that guy here. To each their own but...

GW needs to look inward, refreshing model ranges, and updating their extremely old models with modern sculpts. There is real money to be made here. Admittedly, they're doing this now, but very slowly, and alongside yet even more new models with new kits.

GW needs to publish the modern rules to play their current armies, and adequately support these rules with regular FAQ, and additional mission content to keep the game fresh.

GW has not shown itself to be capable of supporting the current width and scope of the game in a competent manner.
We have armies in every shape and size, and the better argument in my mind, would be rolling some of the extremely niche units and rosters into more mainline rosters to bring the current birds nest of tiny niche factions back into the fold.

We do *not* need, or have room for another faction in 40k at this point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 17:18:48


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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





The Shire(s)

The xenoes that come to mind as being major players are the Hrud and the Khrave.

The Hrud are clearly very widespread, and full-scale Hrud migrations are frequently described in the lore as being massive invasions that can destroy entire Space Marine chapters and the like. They could go down the space-skaven vibe, but more recent fluff has a kind of psychic shroud appearance overlaying a very flexible alien, which doesn't lend itself well to models. Could be retconned though.

The Khrave are popping up more and more in fluff snippets, have been a threat since the Great Crusade, and are a challenge for even Marines to deal with. They are not confined to a single corner of the galaxy like Tau, and appear to be quite widespread. Aside from being big and nasty, not a lot is known about them, which allows a lot of creative freedom.

Obviously more Tau auxiliaries is a low hanging fruit, particularly the Demiurg (xenos space dwarves vibe).

Another interesting option is the Rangdan. These were a cataclysmic xenos force that attacked the Imperium several times during the Great Crusade in the Rangdan Xenocides. They even nearly crippled the entire First Legion, and are the main reason the Dark Angels lost their place as the largest, most powerful legion. Their origins are not known, and their attack was sudden an unexpected. This would make a great new threat. They are in some way linked to the Slaught, who have been infiltrating the fringes of the Imperium. This would be a pretty interesting enemy to re-emerge.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in ca
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 Gert wrote:
 00001 wrote:

Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.

How does a machine holding a grudge make it less of a machine? Skynet comes online and then spends the next like 50 years eradicating humanity. Also not sure the ancient Egyptian style aesthetics make them less robotic? Being a machine doesn't mean the race doesn't have an ability to create art.

They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.

Yes. The immortal machines with the vast majority of its race lacking independent though or emotion that can be rebuilt not only in repair centres but on the battlefield and immediately start fighting again don't make good use of being robots.


How does them being robots make them anymore robot?

You missed the point. Necrons are so human they barely even count as machines. Oldcrons were fine They were distinct. Crons today might aswell be made of flesh. Even something like the flayer virus somehow heavily anthropomorphized them. Its described a "curse" now. A "Curse."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly Tau auxiliaries sounds super boring to me. I dont know why.

Hrud also bore me. I think I dont like their time field effect thing.

Rak Gol are not new and they are awesome but I think they're best left as terrifying, mysterious aliens.

We do need Dark Mechanicus already though.

We also need iconic space marine updates like Terminators, tactical marines and Predators too. ESPECIALLY Terminators. All with the same statline as primaris marines as it makes absolutely no sense to still have classic marines anymore. Just drop the "primaris" name and were gucci

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 18:58:18


123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
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Collection:
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123ply wrote:

How does them being robots make them anymore robot?

You missed the point. Necrons are so human they barely even count as machines. Oldcrons were fine They were distinct. Crons today might aswell be made of flesh. Even something like the flayer virus somehow heavily anthropomorphized them. Its described a "curse" now. A "Curse."

Except the only things that are remotely sentient are the upper echelons of former Necrontyr society and even then they aren't protected. People keep parroting this notion that the Necrons are exactly the same as they were when they were flesh and blood but just utterly ignore anything that isn't a former Necrontyr noble. The elite units in the Necron roster don't choose to be what they are or get promoted like other sentient species. They're constructed and programmed just like every other Necron in existence. A Lychguard doesn't get promoted to Lord because it survives where the rest of its unit dies, it just gets reassigned to another Lychguard unit. Any form of emotion the Necrons have is coded into their memory engrams which were created by the C'tan. The entire race can be enslaved at any point if the original Command Codes are recreated, which is why the Necron nobility tries its hardest to stop C'tan from merging shards. The nobility "freed" their race but everything was still ultimately enslaved to them, never to grow, change or advance.
As for the Flayer Virus being a curse, sentient machines can still be poetic. That and according to legend the Flayer C'tan literally cursed them when it was destroyed, like "You haven't seen the last of me!!!!!" *big explosion*.
   
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Cairo, Egypt

One question if something totally new is introduced is the question why we haven't heard from them yet.

The Necrons get around this by 'awakening'. The Tau get around this by being the new kids on the block.

If a new race is a galaxy-wide threat then why haven't they been mentioned yet?

So how about this (and it would work for the Hurd), they're from the future. They're fleeing a future so catastrophic that the days of Warhammer 40,000 seem a calm oasis before the true storm began.

Grimdark!

 
   
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We have seen the Umbra around too....

really I just want to know more about it.

LINGER
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

@Haighus - I think with the Hrud, isn't it only the Xenobiology book that is actually a reference of what they are like? I'm not sure if they featured in any BL material.

If so that would be a pretty easy retcon (99% of people into 40k probably don't even know of that book)

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One question if something totally new is introduced is the question why we haven't heard from them yet.

The Necrons get around this by 'awakening'. The Tau get around this by being the new kids on the block.

If a new race is a galaxy-wide threat then why haven't they been mentioned yet?

So how about this (and it would work for the Hurd), they're from the future. They're fleeing a future so catastrophic that the days of Warhammer 40,000 seem a calm oasis before the true storm began.

Grimdark!


Haha I like it.. although remember now the timeline has moved forward. There are new super-marines, new technologies, Primarchs back from the dead - all bets are off the table!


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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
One question if something totally new is introduced is the question why we haven't heard from them yet.

The Necrons get around this by 'awakening'. The Tau get around this by being the new kids on the block.

If a new race is a galaxy-wide threat then why haven't they been mentioned yet?

So how about this (and it would work for the Hurd), they're from the future. They're fleeing a future so catastrophic that the days of Warhammer 40,000 seem a calm oasis before the true storm began.

Grimdark!


That would definitly be a pretty cool thing lore wise.

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Cairo, Egypt

Years ago (2008ish?) we had a thread on Dakka for what would the game Warhammer 50k be like.

So stealing from that...

Warhammer 42k -
(General) Well between the nids and Chaos we're pretty boned.
(Inquisitor takes a hit of the bong) Hey, what if like we got the Nids to eat the Eye of Terror!
(Passing Eldar dude) Are you people insane!?

Warhammer 45k
(Admiral) Well they they go, the Hive Fleet is vanishing into the Eye of Terror.
(Inquisitor) I see nothing that can possibly go wrong with this.
(Eldar dude) I'll just be over here working on the time portholes.

Warhammer 46k
(Ad Mech Dude) Huh, unholy, insane abominations of daemon and nid seem to be emerging from the Eye of Terror and destroying all in their path.
(Inquisitor) Who could have foreseen this!
(Eldar Dude repeatedly beats head against wall)

Warhammer 40k
(Tau-Eldar nano warithbone hybrid things emerge from time porthole) We have come to warn you about-
(Imperium) Fire at will!

 
   
Made in us
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A few more votes for Umbra, Enslavers, Rak'Gol and giant race, although I might be a bit biased there...

To tie into the Rak'Gol as well, not just more xenos, but Chaos xenos (of which the Rak'Gol are suspected to be, though no 100% confirmation is given). Give us some real weird stuff, like a race of molluscs or cephalopods. What would the latter pile high in the name of Khorne for example? These are the oddball questions that 40k of the past would throw at you for "your guys" and make you wonder about these truly alien cultures. The race like the Saruthi in the first Eisenhorn book are a good example of some ultra weird Chaos xenos and just how they perceive time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/27 16:18:30



Games Workshop Delenda Est.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
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Eye of Terror

There won't be a novel faction until a popular new sci-fi franchise emerges with some truly unique IP to crib off.


   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Platuan4th wrote:
That exists in the Men of Iron. The problem is that they've been driven nearly extinct by the Imperium.


A blatant retcon could handle this pretty easily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Barkes wrote:
I don't really think there is any reason to add new factions, let alone the time it would take to flesh out every aspect of it.


True. Warehouse space is limited anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/21 21:02:28


 
   
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Cairo, Egypt

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Barkes wrote:
I don't really think there is any reason to add new factions, let alone the time it would take to flesh out every aspect of it.


True. Warehouse space is limited anyway.


Necrons started out with like, 3 units. Knights with 1 or 2. It can be done.

I'm telling you Enslavers, floating brain things (1 kit), and psy zombies (1 kit). 2 kits and you have an army.

The psy zombies would be human, but include some ork/tau/whatever heads.

If it works, then expand with smaller brains and bigger brains, and psyker pawns, and elemental like constructs. But for starters, floating brains and their psy zombie hoards.

 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Enslavers? What do they look like? Like Beholders from D&D?

I read people want true robots. Good idea. First we squat the Necrons in order to get rid of the abysmal take on Tomb Kings in space. But worry not, people will still be able to use those models because their rules will be found in the "Legends" section. Sounds familiar, doesn´t it?

After the Newcrons are gone artists may run wild with concepts for robot frames which are NOT humanoid or resemble any kind of animal species from Earth.

Or how about a proper Cyborg race? I am thinking of a horrible amalgam of man and machine out of the sick mind of Giger. That sort of thing. It will cause nightmares for Little Timmy. Forget all about the bland Imperial servitor models or the Mechanicus guys who wear cloaks. Just naked skin and metal. Oh, and one last thing. When you are doing these new cyber-zombies don´t model them with stupid grinning faces like they botched the new version of the plague zombies. Shudder!
   
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Lebanon NH

 Grimtuff wrote:
A few more votes for Umbra, Enslavers, Rak'Gol and giant race, although I might be a bit biased there...

To tie into the Rak'Gol as well, not just more xenos, but Chaos xenos (of which the Rak'Gol are suspected to be, though no 100% confirmation is given). Give us some real weird stuff, like a race of molluscs or cephalopods. What would the latter pile high in the name of Khorne for example? These are the oddball questions that 40k of the past would throw at you for "your guys" and make you wonder about these truly alien cultures. The race like the Saruthi in the first Eisenhorn book are a good example of some ultra weird Chaos xenos and just how they perceive time.


Dude! I just had to jump on here and comment on those amazing conversions you did! I'm sure that the future race of space-giants will absolutely thank you for your service :-)
   
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Cairo, Egypt

 Strg Alt wrote:
Enslavers? What do they look like? Like Beholders from D&D?


They actually show in up in Rogue Trader as a floating Lovecratian horror.





And then again in the 3rd edition rulebook.






Personally, I rather imagine them looking like Grells, the floating brains in D&D, created by none other than GW founder Sir Ian Livingstone.



Maybe crossed with Starro the Conqueror from DC comics, dropping some face-hugger mind slugs to control their psy zombies. That gives the psy zombies a neat visual and clearly marking them.

So Enslavers have various psy attacks, and can drop lil-slaveys on people's heads to create new zombies, while the zombie hoards stomp around zapping people with their own psy attacks or just ripping them up with their psy-fuel strength. Done. Army in 2 boxes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/22 07:32:03


 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:



And then again in the 3rd edition rulebook.


A bit off-topic, but: There's something super captivating and unnerving about having the most basic necron warrior listed as "unknown" in the core rulebook.
It would be great if they retained that sense of menace today, but alas, the ultramarines must have punched one too many c'tan.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
 
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