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The_Real_Chris wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
m

Infantry squads are geared up but points don't change. 10 man squad includes vox, sarge has choice of pistol and chainsword or lasgun, and one guy has a flamer/grenade launcher.
Can give another squad member a special weapon, can also replace the basic special weapon with a different one.
In my dream world the special weapon list includes Heavy stubber. And in my fantasy world the missile launcher becomes a rocket launcher and again is a 1 man weapon.

A heavy weapon team can be added (taking the squad to 12 men for transport purposes), for the cost of the heavy weapon (crew are free).

I’ve seen other people ask for this too and I have the same thoughts. kanluwen said that

“HWTs… double their ROF at the expense of becoming fire OR move. Missile Launchers become a separate option alongside of a Heavy Stubber, Hellshot Rifle(cutdown lascannons similar to an AT rifle)”

modeling and in game it makes sense to have differences between the tripod mounted crewed weapons and smaller ones

1. Useful Command Abilities (Astropaths, Officer of the Fleet, Orders)
2. Bring Back Platoons and give special rules to each platoon. For example, a veteran platoon +3 BS, infiltrating platoon, heavy weapon squad platoon.
3. Weapon Profile changes to the following weapons: Multi-laser, Battle Cannon, Eradicator Cannon, Exterminator Autocannon, especially Vanquisher battle cannon, Hot-Shot Volley Gun, literally all of the hellhound weapons, sentinel chainsaw, remove entire model dies with plasma on sentinels, remove -1 to hit quad cannon.

Please make the new tank good enough where it is really good, but not mandatory.

Why are guard squads so terrible at shooting? Does anyone really care if they are as good at shooting their las as DE are? Oh no! Your squad scored 3 more hits of S3 AP0 D1! That's 5 total. Now that's all for naught, as they all failed their wound rolls.

Either give guard better BS, or give them S4 las.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Why are guard squads so terrible at shooting? Does anyone really care if they are as good at shooting their las as DE are? Oh no! Your squad scored 3 more hits of S3 AP0 D1! That's 5 total. Now that's all for naught, as they all failed their wound rolls.

Either give guard better BS, or give them S4 las.

careful what you wish for there, the termigaunts everybody freaked out about str5 ap-1 until they saw how much a gaunt now costs. for that upgrade you would probably see guardsman at 65 points per 10. might be a worthwhile tradeoff but in the tyranids case i don't thin we will be seeing many termagants as its too delicate a frame for the cost.

FWIW the balance sheet just made some big changes including free wargear upgrades.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/804579.page

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
FWIW the balance sheet just made some big changes including free wargear upgrades.

It really didn't.

There's a ton of upgrades that nobody bothers to take in the first place. This just means that the most popular ones are going to be free until the new codex.

Additionally, it basically confirmed that they have no intentions of actually addressing issues with the army.

6s autowounding is a big change, whether you like the change or not.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
FWIW the balance sheet just made some big changes including free wargear upgrades.

It really didn't.

There's a ton of upgrades that nobody bothers to take in the first place. This just means that the most popular ones are going to be free until the new codex.

Additionally, it basically confirmed that they have no intentions of actually addressing issues with the army.

LOL I just put in a big order of plasma guns with Mad Robot. I'd been planning to anyway as part of the HUGE change that allows Scions to take 4 special weapons, but I figured I'd better do it now before there is a run on them

LOL I just put in a big order of plasma guns with Mad Robot. I'd been planning to anyway as part of the HUGE change that allows Scions to take 4 special weapons, but I figured I'd better do it now before there is a run on them

Seems like a blanket buff to allow IG to keep up in the lethality creep until their codex drops. I do not expect to keep the auto wounds and immune to indirect nerfs post codex.

The 6's wound doesn't help Scions at all since they do not have the <Regiment> keyword.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
FWIW the balance sheet just made some big changes including free wargear upgrades.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/804579.page

I must say I am shocked that GW actually gave all upgrades to Infantry Squads for free. Suddenly lore-centric squads are the way to go. They need to do this for more units.

ANNNND QUE the horde of people chanting GW ONLY BUFFS FACTIONS ABOUT TO BE RELEASED!!!

So, Guard Squads pay nothing for their squad upgrades. Meaning that, in the eyes of GW, every possible special or heavy weapon upgrade is equal in value. They did that with almost every option Tyranid Warriors can take, even though some weapons (Boneswords) are clearly a better choice than the others.

If every upgrade is free, then you're just playing with a different version of Power Levels.

Oh well, I guess Kan will be happy. He gets watch points values get destroyed and pretend like auto-wounding everything on a 6 makes total sense.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So, Guard Squads pay nothing for their squad upgrades. Meaning that, in the eyes of GW, every possible special or heavy weapon upgrade is equal in value. They did that with almost every option Tyranid Warriors can take, even though some weapons (Boneswords) are clearly a better choice than the others.

If every upgrade is free, then you're just playing with a different version of Power Levels.

Oh well, I guess Kan will be happy. He gets watch points values get destroyed and pretend like auto-wounding everything on a 6 makes total sense.

That's an odd development. However it does mean we'll probably see a lot more IS with Heavies and Specials in them, which is nice. Or you could interpret this as a discount on the infantry themselves squeezing some extra points in for the upgrades.

It'd be nice to see Guardsmen armed with something other than just Lasguns.

I like the moving ti more into line with power level. I have always hated the sargents in squads of guard, marines, orks etc not taking a power weapon or fist/claw and not taking special weapons being even an option. I would even go so far as saying those power weapons and special/heavy weapons should be chosen during deployment. in theory you have some intelligence about what you are going to fight so would choose a loadout accordingly.

Dirk Reinecke wrote:

LOL I just put in a big order of plasma guns with Mad Robot. I'd been planning to anyway as part of the HUGE change that allows Scions to take 4 special weapons, but I figured I'd better do it now before there is a run on them

Wait what, they could always take 4 special weapons <confused face>

Not when I started this particular army, it was 2 per squad. Now it's 2 per squad, plus 2 more if you've got 10 dudes

The only problem I read that AFTER I finished an army using OOP metals...

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I like the moving ti more into line with power level.

Why would you want something to be more inline with Power Levels? They are an inherently less granular system allowing for no variation, where a units abilities in game can vary wildly with zero representation of said power in the points you pay for them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I like the moving ti more into line with power level.

Why would you want something to be more inline with Power Levels? They are inherently less granular system allowing for no variation, where a units abilities in game can vary wildly with zero representation of said power in the points you pay for them.

how does taking more different equipment make it less varied? I see it more of a balance issue. if they put effort into profiles and you had to say choose between a heavy 1 lascannon str 9 ap-4 D 3+d3 or a heavy bolter with heavy 4 str 5 ap-1 D2 and an auto cannon at heavy 2 str 7 ap-3 Damage 3. each seems tailored to a job and squads could be equipped for different roles and set up closer or farther from the enemy accordingly. with current profiles though yea its just going to be which weapon maths out the best for points. I would not change to this method in a vacuum

If everything has the same "cost" (in this instance, 0) then you're always going to take the best option.

If there's granularity in the points costs for different weapons, then you have to weigh the efficacy of weapon vs the cost in your entire army.

The former is Power Level. The latter is points. GW are making points into power level with extra digits.

Or... or just hold on for one moment... or... GW have no idea how to fix the Guard Squad and that one way of doing it was essentially cut the fat and give them free stuff. Nothing to do with PL.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If everything has the same "cost" (in this instance, 0) then you're always going to take the best option.

I always thought the IG heavy weapon selection was fairly good in that there wasn't a best option.

You can go low strength, high rate of fire (Heavy Bolter)
High strength, low rate of fire (Lascannon)
The middle (autocannon)
Jack of all trades (missile launcher)

EDIT - Indirect fire (mortar)

Yeah in some editions one might be marginally better but generally you've got 5 choices with none standing out as fantastic.

On the special weapon side they didn't do as good a job. Plasma's high strength and AP, plus rate of fire, is just better. If it was assault 1, or if Grenade Launchers were rapid fire it might be more balanced.

I’d just make grenade launchers ignore los, they do it in only war if I remember correct.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If everything has the same "cost" (in this instance, 0) then you're always going to take the best option.

I always thought the IG heavy weapon selection was fairly good in that there wasn't a best option.

You can go low strength, high rate of fire (Heavy Bolter)
High strength, low rate of fire (Lascannon)
The middle (autocannon)
Jack of all trades (missile launcher)

Yeah in some editions one might be marginally better but generally you've got 3 choices with none standing out as fantastic.

On the special weapon side they didn't do as good a job. Plasma's high strength and AP, plus rate of fire, is just better. If it was assault 1, or if Grenade Launchers were rapid fire it might be more balanced.

it is pretty good, i am sure somebody with a spreadsheet doing a meta analysis with tournament results would say one is clearly the best. but the truth is none is the best in every scenario. that lascannon isn't doing much if your opponent does some insane tide of cheap bodies list.

as mentioned before I even think you should get to choose the weapon for the squad based on the opponent army, and that all armies should get to do that. Suddenly space marines tacticals are more versitile and battle specific, ditto guard squads, ork boyz with big shootas vs rokkitz etc.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I’d just make grenade launchers ignore los, they do it in only war if I remember correct.

That'd be a neat move.

Fix #1: remove the new auto-wound on hit rolls of 6.

ccs wrote:
Fix #1: remove the new auto-wound on hit rolls of 6.

Nope. This is what the people wanted, clamoring for horde Guard to be the only Guard.


I bloody called it years ago. There's nobody on the design team who knows how to do anything but stick with Cruddace's terrible vision of Guard being Stalingrad.

I'd make hits of 6 auto-wound....said nobody, ever. Except the dev team.

I am tempted to see how many Conscripts it takes to end a Knight or something. Just for kicks. The true Imperial Guard experience.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I'd make hits of 6 auto-wound....said nobody, ever. Except the dev team.

And some of the people whining that it should be a thing for FRFSRF.

 Gert wrote:
I am tempted to see how many Conscripts it takes to end a Knight or something. Just for kicks. The true Imperial Guard experience.

Assuming you get the FRFSRF order off on them, per 30 (in Rapid Fire range):
120/3=40, 20 auto wound so 20/6=3
Roughly 23, so 23/3 is roughly 7.6666667 Unsaved wounds. Per Conscript: just over .25 wounds per.

So that's just under 48 per Armiger, 96 per Crusader, and 112 per Castellan.

So if you have 4 Squads of Conscripts within Rapid Fire range, and can get off the FRFSRF order, you can delete any Knight in one round of shooting.