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I hope we get Primaris Terminators. Gravis armour is not a replacement.

Boosykes wrote:
Simple lion And blue but heads a little blue leads nice side of imperium lion becomes king of the Nhile serving only the Emperor as he sees fit, after all loyalty is its own reward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly I thought that's why they split up the imperium.

umm no thats wrong on so many levels.

1st of all Imperium Nihlus already has a Regent. that would be Dante.

2ndly: it's pretty obvious Imperium Nihlus is intended to be something of a sandbox of microempires, as well as a place where chaos can run amok.

so no they didn't split the Imperium in two so Lion El Johnson can come back, immediatly resume a plot thread that the Horus Heresy actually wrapped up, and run his own empire.

The most disappointing thing in all these rumors is there are enough different sources now to pretty much confirm 10th is happening next year. I've had so few games in 9th's lifetime (obviously not GW's fault) that it feels like the edition was only released in the last year from a gaming perspective (though content wise it does feel longer). No chance to really get into the new narrative system or even touch any of the campaign books. It all still feels fresh and new.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Dear Lord,

Please let this thread die.

Thanks.

If people want to discuss these rumours in the News & Rumours sub-forum, is there a reason they shouldn't, exactly?

Look, I know you're always itching for a fight, with anyone, and a little slow on the uptake so let me explain.

Most of the stuff listed, was copy pasted from an old B&C wishlist thread and everything since is just people extrapolating off that adding just enough changes to make it seem possible.

This is barely a rumor and more along the lines of some people having a poke.

I'd rather the thread die and come back later when there's more weight and less wish.

Can you provide citation that the rumours are copied from a wishlist? If not, then they're still unverified rumours, albeit with low probability.

It's the 4th post in the thread....ffs, read the thread at least... lol

 TalonZahn wrote:


It's the 4th post in the thread....ffs, read the thread at least... lol

I read the thread, I read the comments on B&C, can you confirm with citation that the rumour is copy and pasted from the wishlist? Simple question.

Dudeface wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:


It's the 4th post in the thread....ffs, read the thread at least... lol

I read the thread, I read the comments on B&C, can you confirm with citation that the rumour is copy and pasted from the wishlist? Simple question.

Ahh, so you're a semantics man, not able to look at two things and extrapolate the similarities without outright word for word copies.

Remind me to never paraphrase or translate anything to you.

Or, allow me to apologize to you for not recognizing your inability to look at the 2 lists side by side and see how these "rumors" were made.

 TalonZahn wrote:
Look, I know you're ... a little slow on the uptake

Welcome to ignore!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TalonZahn wrote:
Look, I know you're ... a little slow on the uptake

Welcome to ignore!

Oh no, I'm being ignored by someone who argues with everyone and loves to believe he's right all the time by ignoring the obvious.......

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
<EDIT> I also think they will be pushing firstborn to Heresy and Legending them in 40K proper this edition, but... we'll see.

I'm not an expert on space marine lore, but don't the vast majority of current firstborn units wear armor types that didn't exist during the heresy?

Yes. I presume what he meant is pushing Firstborn overall, not literally putting the modern 40k model lineup into HH.

Sorta - rhino, land raider, tacticals, all of that stuff from 7th and before moved to HH. Keeping the Primaris only stuff in 40K will shrink the size of the Space Marine codex considerably. I'm sure GW won't hesitate to sell HH players "updated" versions of those models in the style of the Heresy, but they've proven they aren't unwilling to retcon things if need be - say, with like, Centurions.

And if they can make you purchase two books - HH Marine book for "firstborn" models and 41K Marine book for Primaris, I can't see them shedding a tear.

People keep claiming first born gets removed and instead gw buffs them

 Tyran wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:


Where's the daemon codex?

I'm expecting the Daemon codex to be like the Tyranid one, no one knows until GW posts it on WarCom.

As I understand it, a lot of these rumors, even when accurate, are based on new models. It is easier to predict a new codex when the sources keep telling you about these new kits. But then you have codexes like Tyranids that don't have new models aside of one character, and that codex completely flew under the radar of the usual rumor sources.

I'm expecting that Daemons will be the same, very little new models and no one will even know it is coming before the official announcement.

I'm hoping that at the very least, we get a plastic Epidemius, as the current resin model looks quite rough. Also, due to the recent release of Total War 3, I'm hoping that there might be a Ku'gath model in the works. You might be right though, we might just get one model and a codex released to little fanfare. I just hope that the book is at least do.ewhat competitive; Khorne daemons especially need alot of help.

BrianDavion wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
Simple lion And blue but heads a little blue leads nice side of imperium lion becomes king of the Nhile serving only the Emperor as he sees fit, after all loyalty is its own reward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly I thought that's why they split up the imperium.

umm no thats wrong on so many levels.

1st of all Imperium Nihlus already has a Regent. that would be Dante.

2ndly: it's pretty obvious Imperium Nihlus is intended to be something of a sandbox of microempires, as well as a place where chaos can run amok.

so no they didn't split the Imperium in two so Lion El Johnson can come back, immediatly resume a plot thread that the Horus Heresy actually wrapped up, and run his own empire.

lol guess we will see won't we.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
<EDIT> I also think they will be pushing firstborn to Heresy and Legending them in 40K proper this edition, but... we'll see.

I'm not an expert on space marine lore, but don't the vast majority of current firstborn units wear armor types that didn't exist during the heresy?

Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

 xttz wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
The wierdest thing about it is suggesting that there's an upgrade sprue for this

They're already on a very poorly packed pair of sprues, so far more cost effective to make a new modern sprue with everything on which is cheaper and faster to produce if your going to make a new one, and what would you put on the upgrade sprue,

unless they're making major changes to genestealer lore (or bringing in Ymgarl genestealers) there's very little you can add, a few different arm poses?, heads with mouths open slightly different amounts ? it's just not credible

Agreed. It's also really weird for the rumour to say new Genestealers are coming but GW are making a bespoke upgrade sprue that's only valid for 6-12 months.

They didn't release the 'new' Cadian box with the heads and weapons too long ago but we'll probably have a 100% new box by the end of the year, so there is a precedent for it.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 xttz wrote:


Agreed. It's also really weird for the rumour to say new Genestealers are coming but GW are making a bespoke upgrade sprue that's only valid for 6-12 months.

They didn't release the 'new' Cadian box with the heads and weapons too long ago but we'll probably have a 100% new box by the end of the year, so there is a precedent for it.

We'll have to wait and see. The new Cadian models haven't been confirmed yet and weren't very clear, so there are other possibilities:

1) They're not actually a new standard guardsman models, but "Cadian veterans" or some other new unit entry.
2) They could be a smaller footprint push-fit kit intended for the IG Combat Patrol, and the old guardsman kit & upgrade sprue will remain on sale (like Ork boyz)

Genestealers could be in a similar situation, where new sculpts are specific to the starter set. Or maybe the rumour is just wrong, and it's a Genestealer Cult unit getting a KT sprue.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
<EDIT> I also think they will be pushing firstborn to Heresy and Legending them in 40K proper this edition, but... we'll see.

I'm not an expert on space marine lore, but don't the vast majority of current firstborn units wear armor types that didn't exist during the heresy?

Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Granted, the last time I did anything with HH was with the 6mm Space Marine/Epic rules back in the day, but are the loadouts that different from regular 40K? And am I misremembering that the Mark VII (Aquila?) came out at the end of the Heresy, in time to be used for the following Scouring?

Despite that, I can imagine GW doing a bit of shuffling and retconning to shift “modern” firstborn minis to be usable in HH/Post-HH scouring games.

 xttz wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 xttz wrote:


Agreed. It's also really weird for the rumour to say new Genestealers are coming but GW are making a bespoke upgrade sprue that's only valid for 6-12 months.

They didn't release the 'new' Cadian box with the heads and weapons too long ago but we'll probably have a 100% new box by the end of the year, so there is a precedent for it.

We'll have to wait and see. The new Cadian models haven't been confirmed yet and weren't very clear, so there are other possibilities:

1) They're not actually a new standard guardsman models, but "Cadian veterans" or some other new unit entry.
2) They could be a smaller footprint push-fit kit intended for the IG Combat Patrol, and the old guardsman kit & upgrade sprue will remain on sale (like Ork boyz)

Genestealers could be in a similar situation, where new sculpts are specific to the starter set. Or maybe the rumour is just wrong, and it's a Genestealer Cult unit getting a KT sprue.

Wasn't there a hint that the Cadian upgrade sprue was a quick update when it became obvious the guard release was going to be longer then expected due to covid. Either wasn't destined for the current box, unlikely as it fits the old kit but, if true, implies a similar level of modularity in the new kit. Or was new elements already designed adapted to the old kit, for example taking a new face sculpt and repurposing it to fit on an old compatible head.

Either way it may be that the Cadian upgrade sprue sits in a weird unique spot and so not as useful for assessing if a similar sprue will be quickly invalidated. Though of course it does at least set a precedent.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
<EDIT> I also think they will be pushing firstborn to Heresy and Legending them in 40K proper this edition, but... we'll see.

I'm not an expert on space marine lore, but don't the vast majority of current firstborn units wear armor types that didn't exist during the heresy?

Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Granted, the last time I did anything with HH was with the 6mm Space Marine/Epic rules back in the day, but are the loadouts that different from regular 40K? And am I misremembering that the Mark VII (Aquila?) came out at the end of the Heresy, in time to be used for the following Scouring?

Despite that, I can imagine GW doing a bit of shuffling and retconning to shift “modern” firstborn minis to be usable in HH/Post-HH scouring games.

Mkvii could feasibly used by three(3) legions in very specific time frame(assault on earth) unless gw retcons things.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
<EDIT> I also think they will be pushing firstborn to Heresy and Legending them in 40K proper this edition, but... we'll see.

I'm not an expert on space marine lore, but don't the vast majority of current firstborn units wear armor types that didn't exist during the heresy?

Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Granted, the last time I did anything with HH was with the 6mm Space Marine/Epic rules back in the day, but are the loadouts that different from regular 40K? And am I misremembering that the Mark VII (Aquila?) came out at the end of the Heresy, in time to be used for the following Scouring?

Despite that, I can imagine GW doing a bit of shuffling and retconning to shift “modern” firstborn minis to be usable in HH/Post-HH scouring games.

yes the load outs are differant. for one thing HH tac squads are orginized more akin to primaris squads (all one weapon) the legions where very differantly ordered. the thing is, for your "theory" to be true, GW woulda had to have included things like indomadus termies and castaferrix dreads in the core book and promoted them, as opposed to putting them in a supplement specificly because they "fit less in the aestetics we've developed for the heresy"

we're more likely to see GW retire firstborns outright, and make the SOB and CSM rhinos the new deimos ones then we are to see GW shift aging space marine kits into the HH "for reasons"

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
<EDIT> I also think they will be pushing firstborn to Heresy and Legending them in 40K proper this edition, but... we'll see.

I'm not an expert on space marine lore, but don't the vast majority of current firstborn units wear armor types that didn't exist during the heresy?

Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

It's kind of a weird thought that space marines, which have a very homogenous feel to their army, effectively have three separate armies available for them, broken up by time period. Heresy, Firstborn, and Primaris.

30K, 40K, 41K.

Indeed, in many ways the Primaris unit organization harkens back to the Heresy, with less individual specialists in squads and instead everyone being armed identically.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Indeed, in many ways the Primaris unit organization harkens back to the Heresy, with less individual specialists in squads and instead everyone being armed identically.

I have noticed that as well. It was the trend for lots of units when they had options anyway (like arming all the Devastators the same or all the Sternguard), but I wish the Primaris would still have the variety of choices. Like instead of just the Hellblasters, having options for melta or grav varieties.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Indeed, in many ways the Primaris unit organization harkens back to the Heresy, with less individual specialists in squads and instead everyone being armed identically.

Yeah, claiming that HH units are equipped in a way "akin" Primaris units is definitely getting things bass ackwards - the Primaris Steroid Bois are aping the original Space Marine Legions in that regard.

Cawl going with what he knows, or Roboute following his old preferences?

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Indeed, in many ways the Primaris unit organization harkens back to the Heresy, with less individual specialists in squads and instead everyone being armed identically.

I have noticed that as well. It was the trend for lots of units when they had options anyway (like arming all the Devastators the same or all the Sternguard), but I wish the Primaris would still have the variety of choices. Like instead of just the Hellblasters, having options for melta or grav varieties.

More than that, HH units even have the sergeant armed with a special / heavy weapon, and there's no way to buy cheap bolter guys as ablative wounds for your lascannons - it's all-lascannons, all the time for everyone in a support squad. This by necessity means you use them differently in battle, as each casualty you take is knocking out an expensive heavy weapon.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:


More than that, HH units even have the sergeant armed with a special / heavy weapon, and there's no way to buy cheap bolter guys as ablative wounds for your lascannons - it's all-lascannons, all the time for everyone in a support squad. This by necessity means you use them differently in battle, as each casualty you take is knocking out an expensive heavy weapon.

It seems more natural to me that way. It might be from playing more Age of Sigmar, though, where that's the norm. Unit leaders just get a small bonus to hit or an extra attack. Rather than using them as ablative armor for your heavy weapons, the other guys become the bodies to save your unit leader.

That was also how I ran Chaos Chosen before the new book restricted their weapons so heavily. Everyone got a combi-weapon, so the champion was the last man standing.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:


More than that, HH units even have the sergeant armed with a special / heavy weapon, and there's no way to buy cheap bolter guys as ablative wounds for your lascannons - it's all-lascannons, all the time for everyone in a support squad. This by necessity means you use them differently in battle, as each casualty you take is knocking out an expensive heavy weapon.

It seems more natural to me that way. It might be from playing more Age of Sigmar, though, where that's the norm. Unit leaders just get a small bonus to hit or an extra attack. Rather than using them as ablative armor for your heavy weapons, the other guys become the bodies to save your unit leader.

That was also how I ran Chaos Chosen before the new book restricted their weapons so heavily. Everyone got a combi-weapon, so the champion was the last man standing.

That feels like the way it should be.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Yes, and almost all unit types for Firstborn are incompatible with the Heresy army list.

Like what?

This is literally not true outside of Razorback (and hurricane bolters on LR). There used to be a distinction but inept HH writers started slapping thunder hammers, storm shields, assault cannons and all the other stuff that was supposed to be post Heresy development on units thoughtlessly and now about the only difference is HH adeptus uglysquattus pretend to be primaris in some cases, no ablative bolter sergeant on a few units. That's literally it, just look how HH new DA units copy hellblasters/bladeguard, or suspiciously totally-not-reiver destroyer squads in recent updates, you can use them in both games with zero conversions...

The background aside, the average 40K Space Marine army just is not usable under HH rules without massive restructuring. It would be the ultimate dick move by GW to "remove" the classical Marines from 40K with the notion of "just play HH instead". Which is not that great a suggestion even - what if I do not want to play HH?

As for 10th next year: the one thing I am most interested in is whether GW can actually get the product out to people in sufficient numbers. Apparently there is a worldwide paper shortage, shipping is still not reliable again, and GW has had issues getting their normal product into peoples hands. A new edition for their biggest game with all the usual bells and whistles will give them some serious headache...

So 3 year edition cycle times are the standard now?