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 Stormonu wrote:


Wizkids and WotC/Hasbro made a killing off it for Mageknight, Mechwarrior and Star Wars & DDM with the random box approach. Until plastic costs shot up and they invalidated the plastic hordes with new rulesets.

I wouldn't be adverse to "add-on" model blind boxes for 40K, so long as they weren't the primary method of getting your army. "Heroes" with their own special datacard would be the easiest way to go, and if a single blind box is something someone can plop down from allowance money would be an easy sell. One-model-at-a-time army building (up to something like a kill team) would probably do pretty well, and I wouldn't mind it as a side avenue of getting into the game. Just not the ONLY way.

Sure, they made money, but not for long. And the plastic cost was only part of the problem.

As a WOTC employee when Mechwarrior and Mage Knight were most popular, everyone hated the blind boxes. The most popular format for those games was a draft, because it increased the odds that you could field a proper force for a reasonable price. The only other players we saw - and keep in mind it was basically a skirmish game, not an army game - were guys who bought the entire case for a release so they increased the odds of getting at least one of each figure.

Mage Knight, being the less popular game (lacking an existing franchise and player base) went almost immediately into the discount bin. It is not a business model any reasonable company would want to emulate.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
It is not a business model any reasonable company would want to emulate.

All of a sudden I want Kirby back, just to see GW do it.

 Geifer wrote:

Wargaming and blind buy boxes don't go together. It's not an idea that should be encouraged or even considered.

It makes more sense to treat them as collectibles rather than wargaming pieces. If you want a squad for gaming, puchasing a Tactical Squad makes more sense. If you are a collector and want a specific model, you have the option to spend more money to get one (as collectors tend to do).

I agree that blind boxes shouldn't interfere with wargaming but I don't consider offering random alternative sculpts as a 40k product. It's more of a side project for GW to attract new audiences with different obsessive buying habits.

 Geifer wrote:
I think you're taking this way too seriously.

I think this sums it up nicely.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:


Wizkids and WotC/Hasbro made a killing off it for Mageknight, Mechwarrior and Star Wars & DDM with the random box approach. Until plastic costs shot up and they invalidated the plastic hordes with new rulesets.

I wouldn't be adverse to "add-on" model blind boxes for 40K, so long as they weren't the primary method of getting your army. "Heroes" with their own special datacard would be the easiest way to go, and if a single blind box is something someone can plop down from allowance money would be an easy sell. One-model-at-a-time army building (up to something like a kill team) would probably do pretty well, and I wouldn't mind it as a side avenue of getting into the game. Just not the ONLY way.

Sure, they made money, but not for long. And the plastic cost was only part of the problem.

As a WOTC employee when Mechwarrior and Mage Knight were most popular, everyone hated the blind boxes. The most popular format for those games was a draft, because it increased the odds that you could field a proper force for a reasonable price. The only other players we saw - and keep in mind it was basically a skirmish game, not an army game - were guys who bought the entire case for a release so they increased the odds of getting at least one of each figure.

Mage Knight, being the less popular game (lacking an existing franchise and player base) went almost immediately into the discount bin. It is not a business model any reasonable company would want to emulate.

Did you work for WotC or WizKids? You're talking about WizKids products, so I assume them. In which case, why are you ignoring mentioning their most popular blind pack game, HeroClix, which has such a huge demand that Topps had to bring it back after having them cancel it and still sells like hotcakes today?

 Platuan4th wrote:
Did you work for WotC or WizKids? You're talking about WizKids products, so I assume them. In which case, why are you ignoring mentioning their most popular blind pack game, HeroClix, which has such a huge demand that Topps had to bring it back after having them cancel it and still sells like hotcakes today?

Wizards of the Coast. At the retail stores they opened in the late 90s and early 00s. We ran games for all the Wizkids releases, which is the source of my comments.

You're spot on, though! I did neglect Heroclix. It was, without a doubt, their runaway hit. Still a skirmish game, which I think makes a massive difference with blind packed game pieces.

It was also easier because Heroclix starters weren't blind packed. They gave you specific figures, and enough to play a small game. And they released those for each wave. 6-8 figures, updated rules, and a new board to play on.

Again, I would argue this is not workable for anything larger scale than skirmish games.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:


Wizkids and WotC/Hasbro made a killing off it for Mageknight, Mechwarrior and Star Wars & DDM with the random box approach. Until plastic costs shot up and they invalidated the plastic hordes with new rulesets.

I wouldn't be adverse to "add-on" model blind boxes for 40K, so long as they weren't the primary method of getting your army. "Heroes" with their own special datacard would be the easiest way to go, and if a single blind box is something someone can plop down from allowance money would be an easy sell. One-model-at-a-time army building (up to something like a kill team) would probably do pretty well, and I wouldn't mind it as a side avenue of getting into the game. Just not the ONLY way.

Sure, they made money, but not for long. And the plastic cost was only part of the problem.

As a WOTC employee when Mechwarrior and Mage Knight were most popular, everyone hated the blind boxes. The most popular format for those games was a draft, because it increased the odds that you could field a proper force for a reasonable price. The only other players we saw - and keep in mind it was basically a skirmish game, not an army game - were guys who bought the entire case for a release so they increased the odds of getting at least one of each figure.

Mage Knight, being the less popular game (lacking an existing franchise and player base) went almost immediately into the discount bin. It is not a business model any reasonable company would want to emulate.

I'm interested to hear how things like the Axis & Allies Miniature game was recieved, as I wasn't into wargaming at the time and have gotten into the system post-mortem.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
I'm interested to hear how things like the Axis & Allies Miniature game was recieved, as I wasn't into wargaming at the time and have gotten into the system post-mortem.

The stores closed in 2004, so it was before that game came out, I believe. I certainly don't remember selling it. The re-release of the main board game did great, though. There was also the boardgame ATTACK! and the expansion, which were both a ton of fun. We spent a few nights playing that in the store until well after midnight. Such a blast. I have been tempted a few times to hunt down a copy along with the expansion.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:


Wizkids and WotC/Hasbro made a killing off it for Mageknight, Mechwarrior and Star Wars & DDM with the random box approach. Until plastic costs shot up and they invalidated the plastic hordes with new rulesets.

I wouldn't be adverse to "add-on" model blind boxes for 40K, so long as they weren't the primary method of getting your army. "Heroes" with their own special datacard would be the easiest way to go, and if a single blind box is something someone can plop down from allowance money would be an easy sell. One-model-at-a-time army building (up to something like a kill team) would probably do pretty well, and I wouldn't mind it as a side avenue of getting into the game. Just not the ONLY way.

Sure, they made money, but not for long. And the plastic cost was only part of the problem.

As a WOTC employee when Mechwarrior and Mage Knight were most popular, everyone hated the blind boxes. The most popular format for those games was a draft, because it increased the odds that you could field a proper force for a reasonable price. The only other players we saw - and keep in mind it was basically a skirmish game, not an army game - were guys who bought the entire case for a release so they increased the odds of getting at least one of each figure.

Mage Knight, being the less popular game (lacking an existing franchise and player base) went almost immediately into the discount bin. It is not a business model any reasonable company would want to emulate.

I was one of those who bought cases on release for Mechwarrior; we'd have a store party with about 7-10 of us there (most bought 2 case, I only bought 1, a few bought just a handful of boosters), and would trade duplicates for those that we missed or to round out the armies we were playing (I was a Steel Wolf/Highlander player, and just collected the rest..grumble, grumble - Swordsworn). And even Mechwarrior had starter sets with fixed content. And near the end they did a couple mech sets with fixed content. Still, they did show the random model can work - at least at the small (skirmish) scale.

Wizkids, unfortunately is a pump-n-dump content creator - and even lousier at rule writing than GW.

Call me old fashioned but I like buying the thing that I want with the money. Not a chance at the thing I want (+800% value!).

The nice thing about the Plague Marine ones is that there were 6, and you got 6 boxes in the set, and it had one of each.



(Yes I know there was a 7th, as is fitting for Nurgle, but he came in a separate paint set)

Now, what if we skip the model and, get this, replace it with a few random, let's call them "collectible", cards, and use THOSE to play the game? Profits up, production costs down...

I can imagine GW finance gurus struggling over why they havent made this move already.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The nice thing about the Plague Marine ones is that there were 6, and you got 6 boxes in the set, and it had one of each.



(Yes I know there was a 7th, as is fitting for Nurgle, but he came in a separate paint set)

The Japanese terminator box was the same way. Then the series 2 RotW box was released and made one figure exclusive to the Japanese box and three figures exclusive to the RotW box. Rise of the Orks later became the only other place to get the Japanese exclusive.

 Scottywan82 wrote:
It is not a business model any reasonable company would want to emulate.

And yet, it's insanely popular in Japan. To the point there are stores dedicated solely to blind boxes (popular enough to have lengthy Wikipedia article on English site). Go figure. I get people might not like the concept, but maybe look up the context of market GW created then criticize it as bad business model?

Plus, I am really not sure blind boxes are that unpopular in the West, seeing toy stores are full of them and even big name companies like LEGO, Hasbro or Disney regularly release those. Hell, I looked it up and My Little Pony alone had like 20+ series of 10 different plastic miniatures. Someone has to keep buying it to fund outputs comparable to GW's whole production for just one niche animated series...

 jeff white wrote:
Now, what if we skip the model and, get this, replace it with a few random, let's call them "collectible", cards, and use THOSE to play the game? Profits up, production costs down...

I can imagine GW finance gurus struggling over why they havent made this move already.

You mean, other than the 5 or 6 CCGs in multiple settings GW already made over the years?

Because if that was supposed to be a joke, you might want to work on punchline a bit more...