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Earthbeard wrote:

Shadelkan wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Exaggerated post is an exaggeration. If the rulebook did come out with all that though I would finally consider paying $80 for it. lol

What's wrong with EVE?

Plenty. But I'm curious as well since I didn't know EVE was doing that badly.

As horribly off topic as this subject is... I beg to differ that there's anything wrong at all. If you find EVE boring, that's totally subjective, and not really something wrong with it; you just don't like the style. Otherwise, as someone who enjoys the style of game EVE offers, I haven't noticed much wrong with it. In fact, I wish GW were as good as CCP is, in terms of... EVERYTHING!

Go in game, check out the forums.

EVE's on a very fast screw the customer, and make everything MT based. When the basic prinicpals of the game are being taken away in the name of making cash, a problem you do have.

Anyone that plays EVE currently and isn't aware of these issues and much, much more for the wider base, really does live in a flower garden with rose tinted glasses.

I love EVE, it's far from boring or even perfect, but the recent looming NGE style feth up, is not good.

Oh I get it! You don't like it when a game improves its graphics. You don't like upgrading after 4+ years. Oh I see. You must hate THQ then for increasing the graphics demand of DOW to DOW2. Or hell, all companies, that don't offer a game that can run on computers built in 2001, are really only money grubbers. /sarcasm

No, sorry, nothing's changed from EVE except the graphics. CCP hasn't increased the cost to pay per month, they haven't changed the underlying system beyond condensing agent divisions. They don't have a micro-transaction system, as you claim, what you are referring to is a purely aesthetics shop that requires PLEX; and last I checked, isk can still buy PLEX. In fact, before you argue that they're going to add items that give bonuses, Plex already does that; you can buy X amount of Plex, sell it quick on the market, and then use that isk to buy Implant Sets or Faction BSes. The system that brought Plex has been around for years, and only now you're complaining?

They haven't changed the game as much as, example, WOW did with Cataclysm. So what's your point? You need to get a better graphics card and/or rig, and you don't like that? Dude, too bad, get with the times, evolve or die; that's not CCPs fault, they still need new players, and graphics attract (See: Rift/Guild Wars 2). If anything, it's your fault for not wanting to change.

I'm going to guess your PC is for MMOs, and you use a console for everything else. If it's an Xbox 360, no wonder you're hurt; after all, the PS3 exclusive Dust 514 must've stung, but then you don't think it hurt PS3 owners to originally find out the game wasn't going to be for them? And no, it's not as simple as "make it for both."

Since you're all knowing, what did CCP take away for the sake of money, huh?

PS: Official Forums are full of BS.

grizgrin wrote:"We"? Some of us will, some of us won't. It's not too terribly often that all of Dakka comes together in consensus on much of anything.[/quote


Until after a week or so after the release. Then there is a pretty good idea if it is good or crap. ( 5th Edition is back a few numbers in the line, go back and take a look.)

ShumaGorath wrote:

Reecius wrote:Ah yes, all the chicken little's are already crying about the sky falling.

Come on people. This happens EVERY time. Every edition change, every new book, everyone flips out before they have any real facts.

Continue to enjoy the game now and wait to see what happens. Then, gasp, try it out and make a judgement call. No need for these overly dramatic statements based on rough rumors coming from the memories of a supposed play tester.

In other words, be cool people. These are just rumors.

But if the 40k community isn't being reactionary children then what are they?

Hahaha, got me there!

I think the sky would literally fall if the online community was calm and patient for a change of pace.

Balance wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:With all the new rules along with the different levels of play, expect the starter set to have model, "cards" for ruls and stats, just like all the new game systems. Pokemon/Magic 40k 6th Edition!!

Yes, having a game be created such that reference material is widely available and easy to use is horrible and ruins the game.

Wait, didn't WH40k 2nd edition have cards and datafaxes?

And 40k use to have Squats, Overwatch, and SW turn 1 tabling opponents. Notice how we don't have them anymore?

Someone made comments about using counters and what not. What I find surprisingly is when I got my 5th edition book, with the metal case for the minis, it also came with counters and tokens.

Funny thing is, I haven't seen ONE PERSON ever use them. GW has made counters of units, for running, or has gone to ground, and other stuff.

So this is nothing new, but people just never seemed to use them.

We all use the dice to do it now, so it's just something to get use to, nothing to say "the sky is falling" or "its the end of the world". You are just making yourself look foolish, since so many other games do it, and is more fun and don't take up as long as a 40K game to boot.

Brother Ramses wrote:

Balance wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:With all the new rules along with the different levels of play, expect the starter set to have model, "cards" for ruls and stats, just like all the new game systems. Pokemon/Magic 40k 6th Edition!!

Yes, having a game be created such that reference material is widely available and easy to use is horrible and ruins the game.

Wait, didn't WH40k 2nd edition have cards and datafaxes?

And 40k use to have Squats, Overwatch, and SW turn 1 tabling opponents. Notice how we don't have them anymore?

Read the rumors again..... Overwatch is looking like it is back.... And Characters will be getting a serious buff, maybe even allowing up to 3 saves per shot (Cover, Invul, Armor.).... Sound familier?

No more than 2 saves for characters, including re-rolls.

Sounds nice....

We also getting random number of heavy bolter (for example) shots? I still have those dice around here somewhere....

Sustained fire dice? I loved those things. Three dice per noise marine, baby, woo!

OK, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't assault before shooting pretty much make assault weapons obsolete.

Having assault weapons (based on the rumor dump) gives you a bonus attack in CC now...So it doesn't make them obsolete, in fact it makes things like codex: tyranids even better.

doubled wrote:OK, correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't assault before shooting pretty much make assault weapons obsolete.

There's another post with more information:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/360/377248.page#2980372

More specifically, assault weapons (supposedly) help in close combat and can be used in Overwatch.

Sidstyler wrote:

I'll never understand the "lists meant to win = bad" thing, though. It makes me think that there are actually people out there who design their armies and play every game with the intention of losing and I don't think anyone needs to explain how absurd that is, no one actively tries to lose every game and if you do you're just wasting time. I have nothing against casual play, it's all I really do in any game, but I also disagree with this notion that trying to win is bad or wrong.

You apparently haven't seen this thread, then.

Well. I can't find it.

It may have been a "worst units" thread, but whatever it was, I know by the end everyone was trying to outdo each other with the 'worst possible army lists', and had even set up a potential tournament where it was guarenteed that everyone would try their hardest to win using each list. Whoever lost the most matches would be the 'winner' of best army. It was actually quite entertaining, and tactically interesting.

I don't know some of these rules sound pretty far out there.

I am going to wait until I see the rulebook with my own eyes and have played a few games to see how they work out before I make any bold, sweeping statements about how good or bad anything is...

Omegus wrote:

Sageheart wrote:WOW these rules really change things up. Whole armies are going to be entirely reformatted.

So no more razorback spam in 4/5 lists? Damn, I really enjoyed that. :(

Yeah just kinda sucks for the guy who spent mad billz on having 20+ chimeras..

Nobody spent the bills on 20+ chimeras, and if they did, they were going for an apocalypse level army. Transports will still be useful in 6th edition, if these are indeed 6th edition rules.

Sageheart wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Sageheart wrote:WOW these rules really change things up. Whole armies are going to be entirely reformatted.

So no more razorback spam in 4/5 lists? Damn, I really enjoyed that. :(

Yeah just kinda sucks for the guy who spent mad billz on having 20+ chimeras..

shame on me for spending £2000 on 3 mech list armies and now to find out tanks might not need needed to transport my troops

and I bought everything just in the past 2 months. Oh lucky me.

Sucks for you, then. If you dropped £2000 on tanks, then you had the money to spare. You'll still be able to use them. These rumors are unconfirmed, and even if they are true, transports are still useful. Quit crying about it.

Marthike wrote:shame on me for spending £2000 on 3 mech list armies and now to find out tanks might not need needed to transport my troops

and I bought everything just in the past 2 months. Oh lucky me.

Have you considered that it might be your fault for spending that massive an amount of cash on extremely one dimensional armies that have been widely predicted as "in" for 5th edition and likely to be less powerful in the future?

Anvildude wrote:It may have been a "worst units" thread, but whatever it was, I know by the end everyone was trying to outdo each other with the 'worst possible army lists', and had even set up a potential tournament where it was guarenteed that everyone would try their hardest to win using each list. Whoever lost the most matches would be the 'winner' of best army. It was actually quite entertaining, and tactically interesting.

Stuff like that is fine if it's just for fun, but you know what I mean, some people promote this style of play as if it were the only way to have fun and it's not.

ph34r wrote:extremely one dimensional armies

How so? I don't see how mech armies are any more one dimensional than armies which rely entirely on running toward the other guy and hoping he rolls 1's.

As far as mech being "out" next edition, I kinda doubt it. Unless they decide that they're just sick and tired of making money by giving people a reason to buy their most expensive kits.

doubled wrote:I don't know some of these rules sound pretty far out there.

Well, I clearly remember when the rumors of no more Victory Points and it would be objective based, people said BS and it was pretty far out there.

So while I agree most is not all are fake, you just never know. I guess next year we will know for sure one way or the other.

Magister187 wrote:

Crom wrote:

Magister187 wrote:

Crom wrote:I would like to see some options for activating units one at a time, and then switching back and forth. that way there is no real advantage to going first and it plays more like chess.

40k is nothing like chess. You don't have restrictions on number of units. That system works well only in games that have an even number of units, or no turn structure (ie. each move is a turn, not each move is back and forth) and/or where each unit is of similar quality.

If you ever played warzone back in the 90s, they did this via action points and activation one unit/vehicle/character at a time and then you traded turns off. I think it makes for better game play. Warzone was one of the best balanced game systems I played, but when I quit war gaming for a long time, I heard their last edition they screwed it all up though and they totally unbalanced the game.

When you activate a squad you can do whatever you with with it's activation points. In 40K you could activate a squad, move them, shoot them assault them, and then when you are done your opponent does the same and you trade off from there. Once everything has been activated turn 1 is over, and you start turn 2.

I understand how that system works, which is why I feel it won't work at all for 40k. Units range so greatly in quality/cost, that it can't possibly be balanced for an army with 3 or even 4 times the units to have that system. Seriously, think about orcs/nids/IG vs. Crons/SM/GK.

The system would need tweaking for sure, as well as the unit structure and squad/unit quantities but that doesn't mean it is impossible. More elite armies which have less units would have more actions or more abilities to fire and attack versus a horde army which is filled with quantity of units and not quality. It really wouldn't be much different from other than, giving opponents more reactionary opportunities. A horde of 30 models moves towards you, you can counter by moving to cover since you know they are going that way. Where as before you would have to wait your opponents whole turn.

I think in the end it is about the same since everything gets to go once before the turn ends, the order is just changed is all.

Some of these rules that are coming up even with the GW "clamp" on rumor control, as you can see that's not working, are right from 2nd edition for those who don't know. Sustain fire dice, pistol ST in CC, armor and invul saves on IC. There has been chatter on how all these changes will ruin the game and how it hard and long to play according to the rumors. I say the rumors are taking the game back to some of it roots. Switching from 2nd edition to 3rd sucked, 4th edition sucked, and 5th is so simple it can't suck. I would welcome these changes. If over watch is true, HW squad guard armies will get to return to their glory days(my old days). For the comments on "snap!, armies will have to be changed!" Try playing through 4 editions!

Sidstyler wrote:

ph34r wrote:extremely one dimensional armies

How so? I don't see how mech armies are any more one dimensional than armies which rely entirely on running toward the other guy and hoping he rolls 1's.

Out of curiosity, have you ever played against a mech army?

If even half of these rumors are true, I'm going NUTS in wait for 6th This sounds like it's going to make the game more in line with fantasy, which, being a player of both systems, I find fantasy more tactically sound. So this will become a more intense game. And I'm all for that

timetowaste85 wrote:If even half of these rumors are true, I'm going NUTS in wait for 6th This sounds like it's going to make the game more in line with fantasy, which, being a player of both systems, I find fantasy more tactically sound. So this will become a more intense game. And I'm all for that

40K the toughest of characters can die, in fantasy you can have a Lord wipe out half an army no problem. I think 40K is far more balanced when it comes to units/characters/warmachines and such. I think fantasy has a bit more tactics involved because it is more complicated, otherwise I think 40K is a more solid system, sans say the over powered cover saves.

2nd edition of 40K was all about cheese. Displacement fields, vortex grenades, assassins, ultimate power force cards, etc. Every weapon had it's own STR value with modifiers. It will make the game drag on, become all about characters, and elite troops will own everything. What I like most about 5th edition is that I came back into gaming after a 15 year break, is how well balanced the game is. So I quit right when 3rd edition came out. In fact I remember buying the 3rd Ed book, but never actually playing a 3rd Ed game. My buddy decided he wanted to start a Tau Army and I dusted off my old 2nd Edition Space Wolves from a box in the basement. First game my blood claws charged into a unit of the Kroot thinking, oh well they are cheap cannon fodder troops I will shred them. They destroyed my blood claws after I got my licks in. In 2nd edition that would have never happened.

Terminator armor was 3+ on 2D6 back then so STR 6 attacks were a 6+ on 2D6 to save. I really hope they don't turn this into Herohammer 40K with the next edition. They also need to seriously streamline vehicle rules.

Crom wrote:

timetowaste85 wrote:If even half of these rumors are true, I'm going NUTS in wait for 6th This sounds like it's going to make the game more in line with fantasy, which, being a player of both systems, I find fantasy more tactically sound. So this will become a more intense game. And I'm all for that

40K the toughest of characters can die, in fantasy you can have a Lord wipe out half an army no problem. I think 40K is far more balanced when it comes to units/characters/warmachines and such. I think fantasy has a bit more tactics involved because it is more complicated, otherwise I think 40K is a more solid system, sans say the over powered cover saves.

2nd edition of 40K was all about cheese. Displacement fields, vortex grenades, assassins, ultimate power force cards, etc. Every weapon had it's own STR value with modifiers. It will make the game drag on, become all about characters, and elite troops will own everything. What I like most about 5th edition is that I came back into gaming after a 15 year break, is how well balanced the game is. So I quit right when 3rd edition came out. In fact I remember buying the 3rd Ed book, but never actually playing a 3rd Ed game. My buddy decided he wanted to start a Tau Army and I dusted off my old 2nd Edition Space Wolves from a box in the basement. First game my blood claws charged into a unit of the Kroot thinking, oh well they are cheap cannon fodder troops I will shred them. They destroyed my blood claws after I got my licks in. In 2nd edition that would have never happened.

Terminator armor was 3+ on 2D6 back then so STR 6 attacks were a 6+ on 2D6 to save. I really hope they don't turn this into Herohammer 40K with the next edition. They also need to seriously streamline vehicle rules.

Actually I remember weapons having a "str rating" and an "armour save modifier". i.e. a profile would be "STR6 -3 armour save", so Termie armour would get 6+(normally 3+ with no modifier) on 2d6. All other armour used 1d6 with few exceptions.

These rumours completely go against the design philosophy of recent 40K editions. I am sceptical.

L. Wrex

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:These rumours completely go against the design philosophy of recent 40K editions. I am sceptical.

L. Wrex

To be fair, 3rd ed. went completely against the design philosophy of 1st and 2nd as well. It's not inconceivable that GW have decided it's time for another major shift.