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if there is talk of making the court one unit, is that one separate from the archon or would the court and the archon be one whole unit. Would be nice to see an introduction of Incubi bodyguards again

 harlokin wrote:
Interesting update, thanks.

Do you take many Incubi? I was wondering if Drazhar is still worthwhile in an Incubi-heavy list, for the bonus to wound.

Did you put a Reaper in the Cult of Strife detachment? I'm curious as to whether that would be worth it for the 'shoot again' stratagem.

I only take 1x5 man unit of Incubi even when i did play with Drazhar, IDK why but my Incubi 5-20 doesn't matter always fails. I kept track for 6 games so far and they have bene in combat for at least 2 combat rounds in every game, and in every game has not done more than 5 wounds. Lelith has done more wounds in 1 game than my incubi has in the past month of games (I play every week). My Wyches has done better than my Incubi and I love Incubi I would love to play them, they just don't work for me (I have 30 Incubi fyi). Even with Onslaught and Drazhar near. On DE Discord I have done BatReps during my games when I took heavy Incubi and Drazhar, took pictures of them and their rolls. One game I had 10 charge some Marines (granted they had SS's) Onslaught and Drazhar near with +1 PFP to hit on 2's. Rolled 8 1's to hit, 2 6's. Then rolled 16 1's and 2's to wound and only 1 6. Out of 32 attacks hitting on 2+, wounding on 3+ i only did 8 wounding rolls, he saved 5 and FnP 1.

But, everytime I play Lelith and 2 units of Wyches together they deal 20+ wounds and sit in combat for turns.

Yes I do use the Reaper in my Cult list for the Double shooting. I am thinking of trying the Tantalus again, but it always just get shot at by their whole army, yes that means only 310pts dies, but that also means 310pts will always do nothing. Even if i DS it it dies that turn. Or I can take 2 Reapers and hide them and split them up. The Double shoot is nice, but honestly I use the double fight more. I just used it the other night, i killed of a Troupe squad which let me fight the 2nd unit of Skyweavers to kill off 2 of them.

Now If i am taking Black heart i'll make the Reapers BH, re-roll 1's to hit/wound and the 6+++ IMO is better than the chance to double shoot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elfric wrote:
if there is talk of making the court one unit, is that one separate from the archon or would the court and the archon be one whole unit. Would be nice to see an introduction of Incubi bodyguards again

If it becomes 1 unit, it will be its own unit like all other bodyguard units, Celestians, Tyrant guard, etc...

Thanks very much, that's very informative.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Took Drazhar out of my lists for now. IMO as is he is not worth 135pts.

I had wondered whether the new points would price Drazhar out of lists.

I mean, mechanically he's reasonably solid as far as our HQs go. But when he's in the territory of costing roughly twice what our other HQs cost, I'm inclined to agree that he's probably not worth it.

Drazhar was stronk at 105, but seeing how (in general) our costs went down, I see him being buffed with the Codex. 135 is a lot, and mini-Drazhars became much stronger without any price changes.

When he is the cost of some other heroes at that are the same number of attacks and damage, better saves and don't need to attack twice, yeah he isn't worth it as much. I mean, Drazhar is more than Ragnar now.... Yes +1 to wound is really good, but it also only works on him and Incubi whilte most marine units can do it with a stratagem as well.

I'd just like to point out that Drazhar and 5 incubi charged and killed 10 terminators in a single round in my last game.

I think he totally may be worth it.

Also, he's like the only half decent combat HQ in the army.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I'd just like to point out that Drazhar and 5 incubi charged and killed 10 terminators in a single round in my last game.

I think he totally may be worth it.

Also, he's like the only half decent combat HQ in the army.

But thats not always the Normal. With just the Incubi you need to get 2 6's to outright kill 1 or 6 normal wounds to kill just 1, you where extremely lucky. 5 Incubi hitting on 2+ with Klaivex +2 attacks (18 attacks) will get 15 hits, If you onslaught it'll be 17.5 hits.

3+ to wound is 11.7 wounds (round to 12), 2 of them are 6's.
The 2 6's will kill 1, and the other 10 hits will kill 3.
Your 5 Incubi with 1CP just killed 5.
Remember this is also turn 3, or 1Cp to make it turn 3 on PFP for the +1 to WS.


Drazhar more attacks is better
6 attacks, 5 hits, 3.33 hits, 3 wounds (no 6's)
Fight twice, 3 wounds, 1 6 this time
Drazhar does 6 wounding rolls you force to roll the 4D first, he CP re-rolls this one so 25% chance to actually kill 1, then the other 5, 2.5 saves, he will kill 2 Terminators.

On average with Onslaught and +1 to hit you kill 7. This is if he doesn't have an Apoth hear (b.c it goes down to 5 kills) and if he doesn't interrupt your attacks as well, so you need a 2nd hero (Vex mask) or a Vect strat to stop him from killing w/e unit goes 2nd (which is Drazhar as he is worst in this match up). On average you'll kill 4 if they set up correctly with an Apoth, pulling the dead away, and counter offensive. If it was vs DA then its even worst b.c they always have Transhuman so you never wound better than a 4+. To add, most the time the only players using Terminators are, DA, DG, and CSM, 2 of those 3 has a goo defense vs Incubi, 1 is Transhuman the other is -1D, CSM will DS and shoot up a couple units and do serious work, but has less defensives, sadly they will kill more than 300pts (well 290) for what their cost is.

Grots are also really good in combat, too, not as much as Incubi but they are 250% more survivable for less points than Drazhar and a unit of Incubi while Incubi are only about 150% more damage. (those are estimate numbers Grots are 20 wounds vs 11 wounds, almost double, but are also 4++ and higher Toughness, just making a wound roll 16.7% worst is a big deal. Incubi can deal 3D and Drazhar 2/4D on a few attacks, 4 out of all of their attacks with Onslaught that is but Grots CP lets them re-roll wounds).

But thats not always the Normal

No, you're right. its not. But 135 points isn't bad for a beatstick like Drazhar. I've played with much worse. He was probably too cheap before.

That being said, he is pretty easy to kill

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

But thats not always the Normal

No, you're right. its not. But 135 points isn't bad for a beatstick like Drazhar. I've played with much worse. He was probably too cheap before.

That being said, he is pretty easy to kill

And I have had Lelith do double the Wounds as him, and a Red Grief Succubus do double as well without the need to double fight. Antidotes means nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS, Lelith killed a unit of Skyweavers a couple weeks ago and my Incubi did 0 damage to a unit of Skyweavers. I guess Lelith should be 130pts then b.c I spiked 5 dice with a 5+ roll for 10 more attacks.

Anecdotes on their own aren't worth much, but you put a bunch of them together and then you get patterns and strategies. So, they are worth something.

My experience is that he does decent damage in melee. Is the the best? No. But he's worth more probably than any other beatstick character we have.

He's still useful as an HQ choice in a second detachment if you really don't need/want an Archon, Succubus, or Haemonculus. I think you're paying for that now if you want to use him that way, but the Visarch is 50 points cheaper.

So are there any bets on our upcoming re release going to include no new units but just plastic remakes of old finecast with no new weapon options or gear? It's pretty damn spot on these days. We never get anything new or cool anymore. Just better hope our rules are decent enough for now.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So are there any bets on our upcoming re release going to include no new units but just plastic remakes of old finecast with no new weapon options or gear? It's pretty damn spot on these days. We never get anything new or cool anymore. Just better hope our rules are decent enough for now.

im going to bet they are going to somehow remove even more units and wargear options

IF we follow what happened with the DG codex... our scourges will be limtied to 1 of each weapon type at 5 and 2/each at 10. I don't even remember what comes in the kabalite box but with the poor special weapon alotments they have already it wouldnt change anything there

The Kabalite box has a Shredder, a Dark Lance, a Blaster, a Splinter Cannon, a Blast Pistol and a PGL. An Agoniser and a Power Sword too, I think.

Scourges had been in a rough spot through 8 edition, being an overspecialized unit that failed to kill in most cases and died in the return fire. If they are being treated as PMs in wargear options, then they will need more mobility and a better basic weapon.

I don't think they are going to be worse than 8th edition ones.

I'm pessimistic. I favour a Troops & Transports playstyle, but I doubt anything much will be done to make them great again, instead I expect the focus will be on Elites and Fast Attack.

I can't see what else we could lose model-wise.

 warmaster21 wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So are there any bets on our upcoming re release going to include no new units but just plastic remakes of old finecast with no new weapon options or gear? It's pretty damn spot on these days. We never get anything new or cool anymore. Just better hope our rules are decent enough for now.

im going to bet they are going to somehow remove even more units and wargear options

IF we follow what happened with the DG codex... our scourges will be limtied to 1 of each weapon type at 5 and 2/each at 10. I don't even remember what comes in the kabalite box but with the poor special weapon alotments they have already it wouldnt change anything there

Yep, every release sense 6th has removed chunks of our rules and units. We are not like space marines and gets 126 new releases from that same time (Yes they have gotten that much releases)

I'm just hoping we get improved transport capacity, its fething rediculous our characters A dont fit in transports with squads who need to be taken at max strength to get even a modicum of special weapons, and B that their auras dont even function while in said transports for a faction whos main playstyle is party boats...

I have low expectations for the dex and will probably see my DE still collecting dust as it has been off and on since 3rd ed...

hopefully we see some tricks like.... being able to disembark from our transports AFTER moving..... something our hyper dexterous space ninja elves with the most open concept sleek craft the universe has to offer.... and then charge, kill something, consolidate and re-embark into the transport, or the same situation but shoot instead of charge and then re-embark... I know there is that 1 wych cult that lets you consolidate towards your transport but id like to see it as an army wide ability. Our boats are easy enough to destroy that I dont think it would be that problematic if we could... actually use our speed for once.

at least we can fire/fade back into transports now, as situational as that is.

We're getting better than now for sure

All the 9th codexes until now have been flavorful and fun to play, maybe I have to eat my words, but I bet ours will be similar.

Dark technomancers actually got better for minimum sized wracks units with liquifiers in venoms. It counts the UNIT not the MODEL for taking losses. So you can kill off the non shooters first while in the venom.

Yeah it is better for units with 1-2 guns but worst for Venoms over all.

I know this is a tactics thread but i feel like we should probably have a thread for each army faction's paint jobs. If there is one i apologize for not knowing. I only post in like 2 to 3 threads on dakka most of the time.

https://imgur.com/gallery/z2qscuw

https://imgur.com/gallery/c8NZliW

They look cool! I love that red.

Do you guys play any flyer right now? Which one do you think works best. I kinda prefer the bomber.

I use void ravens but they suck due to points cost right now.

I really want to buy a Flyer, but I guess I wait for the Codex.

From now on, every Sunday will be: "is this week the week?"

So excited.

I heard it’ll be mid February. I think there were news leaks somewhere. Not sure what was said but we seem to be next I think.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I heard it’ll be mid February. I think there were news leaks somewhere. Not sure what was said but we seem to be next I think.

Pretty sure it will be in the next set of preorders. So 13 days away.

So we should be getting a few glimpses on the community page a week on Monday?

GW already stated 1 codex per month. DA is in Feb we will be in March. We "might" get pre-orders end of Feb how DA got pre-orders end of Jan.

Yup. I suspect that we will see leaks of what is to come over the next couple of weeks though.