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The show is called Rings of Power yet the forging of the rings had less screen time than the not-hobbits saying goodbye.
M.
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
If you want hours long episodes of people making stuff out of metal, perhaps Forged In Fire would be a better fit?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
That looks definitely more interesting than some secondary characters saying goodbye for 10+ minutes.
M.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/22 01:28:48
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though."
Gonna give the show a 6/10. Fantastic production values, good performances for the most part, absolutely atrocious writing. People who say the finale make the rest of the show worth it are huffing glue. I will probably give s2 a go when it airs, but I won't be anxiously anticipating it.
creeping-deth87 wrote: Gonna give the show a 6/10. Fantastic production values, good performances for the most part, absolutely atrocious writing. People who say the finale make the rest of the show worth it are huffing glue. I will probably give s2 a go when it airs, but I won't be anxiously anticipating it.
I feel about the same. I liked some of the twists, like some of the performances and I'm no Tolkien scholar so they'd have to really try to do something that bothers me.
Won't watch S1 again, will watch S2 when in comes out, but in a 'if I've nothing better to do at 10pm' sort of way.
Views of the show aside, it's rekindled my interest in Middle Earth. Our gaming group has got back into playing MESBG something fierce and it's motivated me to get a lot more work done on my models and to get an army finished that isn't just the nine Nazgul.
CptJake wrote: Wife and I enjoyed it. Not a perfect show, but entertaining enough. Wish they had better lit some of the night time battle scenes.
Semi related, the wife and I started watching The Sinner, and in the 4th season (we realized after first episode we needed to back to season 1), there's a set of night time scenes. . . To my outside the industry, but with friends inside the industry knowledge, there's spots where they obviously filmed in daylight, but used a HEAVY dose of blue filtering to make it look like a dark, semi-overcast night (there's some walking in the scene, so the POTUS from ID4 needed to see where he's walking)
Makes me wonder why more shows can't do something like that, so that the audience goes "ohh, its night time" but the audience can still see whatever action is going on.
Trivial question, where did Galadrial get her armor from?
She shed the ceremonial armor before she jumped ship, but then has a suit when the Numinor go to Middle Earth. And it looks different from everyone else's armor so it doesn't look like a spare suit.
Related, I don't like how she's shorter than the humans.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Trivial question, where did Galadrial get her armor from?
She shed the ceremonial armor before she jumped ship, but then has a suit when the Numinor go to Middle Earth. And it looks different from everyone else's armor so it doesn't look like a spare suit.
Related, I don't like how she's shorter than the humans.
They probably had some in store in the lost library of the elves. yeah she is cute but a bit short for the charaacter
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I think Elves and Numenoreans were both around 6' 5" average height for males, 6' for female Elves, so Galadriel being shorter isn't outrageous, even if the gap is a little bigger than it should be.
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Elendil can be excused as being taller, but she should still at least be tall as or taller than most of the Numenoreans. Elendil has a canon height of 7'11", Galadrial is 6'4".
So yeah, she should be much shorter than Elendil, but she definitely shouldn't be shorter than most of the Numenoreans. And he of course should be towering over everyone by at least a foot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/24 05:18:14
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Elendil can be excused as being taller, but she should still at least be tall as or taller than most of the Numenoreans. Elendil has a canon height of 7'11", Galadrial is 6'4".
So yeah, she should be much shorter than Elendil, but she definitely shouldn't be shorter than most of the Numenoreans. And he of course should be towering over everyone by at least a foot.
I'm not so worried about canon heights (seven feet, eleven inches?!) as just aesthetics. It's a visual medium after all. My image of elves is just taller than humans, and since LotR made an art out of shooting people to look like they're very different heights it is not impossible to make 5'3" Morfydd Clark look taller than everyone else. Not a giant, but just an inch or two taller than whoever she's standing next to.
Grey Templar wrote: Elendil can be excused as being taller, but she should still at least be tall as or taller than most of the Numenoreans. Elendil has a canon height of 7'11", Galadrial is 6'4".
So yeah, she should be much shorter than Elendil, but she definitely shouldn't be shorter than most of the Numenoreans. And he of course should be towering over everyone by at least a foot.
I'm not so worried about canon heights (seven feet, eleven inches?!) as just aesthetics. It's a visual medium after all. My image of elves is just taller than humans, and since LotR made an art out of shooting people to look like they're very different heights it is not impossible to make 5'3" Morfydd Clark look taller than everyone else. Not a giant, but just an inch or two taller than whoever she's standing next to.
.
Good point and they are already doing lots of it for the not-hobbit nonsense
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Grey Templar wrote: Elendil can be excused as being taller, but she should still at least be tall as or taller than most of the Numenoreans. Elendil has a canon height of 7'11", Galadrial is 6'4".
Again, like with the vast majority of Tolkein's work, it differs. Tolkein says he is 7'11" and 7'.
Because so much of Tolkein's work was unfinished and he spent a lot of time rewriting things as it suited him, "canon" is a tricky subject.
Thingol is meant to be the tallest elf according to the Unfinished Tales at nearly 9ft.
As with most adaptions, I'm glad they didn't bother with this. It would look fething daft on screen. It's a hold over from the Old English sagas he takes a lot from. People had gigantic stature because they were heroic figures or evil figures, depending.
Having finally caught up with the show. I was reasonably happy with it. At the core, it's an adaption of Tolkein's work which hopefully as it advances, improves over time. There were a lot of things I liked about it. And a fair few things I didn't. I think the bottom line is that this is a show that was trying to get the biggest audience and lots of views. That means the writing has to try and aim for the lowest denominator. Yet bizarrely, even the marketing for the show seemed slim on the ground.
I'll certainly watch the next season, but I hope for a lot of things to be tightened up.
Olthannon wrote: As with most adaptions, I'm glad they didn't bother with this. It would look fething daft on screen. It's a hold over from the Old English sagas he takes a lot from. People had gigantic stature because they were heroic figures or evil figures, depending.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: .... since LotR made an art out of shooting people to look like they're very different heights it is not impossible to make 5'3" Morfydd Clark look taller than everyone else. Not a giant, but just an inch or two taller than whoever she's standing next to.
Owain Arthur's Height 5ft 8 (172.7 cm)
Welsh actor, best known for playing Prince Durin IV in The Rings of Power. At drama college, he listed himself as "Height: 5'10".
Had to rewatch the last episode a couple of times to organize my thoughts about it. I think my initial reaction was worse, and upon re-watching I've been more forgiving.
That said, I think at the end of the day the episode was midling overall and didn't really stick the landing like they needed to. But it doesn't ruin the series for me and it's not going to prevent me from watching it again at some point in the future, listening to the soundtrack while reading through the hobbit or the Silmarillion again, or watching its second season in some unknown future year because apparently they really did wait to see if interest was high enough in the first season before going to work proper on the second.
Observations, broken down by storyline because I think it worked out pretty good. I'm going to appologize in advance for the length, I've basically been adding to this over and over for the past couple of weeks while I was getting over this cough.
Tying up loose ends in Numenor
Spoiler:
-Ken Blackburn gets a great moment where, as the King lays on his deathbed being sketched by Isildur's sister, he begins speaking with her with an almost scary lucidity about the coming doom. He misidentifies her as Miriel, and I'm not entirely sure him saying she (Isildur's sister) is not queen *yet* is entirely a case of mistaken identity and not some hint that she may have some part to play with Ar-Pharazon usurping the throne.
-Since she's had access to the Palantir, perhaps she'll be some kind of Cassandra figure?
-The Queen is in the hold of the ship counting steps, Elendil corrects her and says its *nine* steps to the main post - at first I thought her plan was to pretend not to be blind.
-Elendil's regret for his part in how things played out is much more gracefully presented here. The scene in last episode where he turns and tells the camera the same thing is even more unnecessary than it first appeared.
-They arrive in Numenor to find the black banners flying, signifying the king died offscreen while they were away. Elendil, who affirmed he'd stay with her and help her in the previous shot immediately lets go of her and steps foreward dramatically while she asks confused what happened and why he let her go.
-We close out on Numenor with a shot of Pharazon standing over the king's deathbed, ready to step foreward and be a much bigger problem in later seasons.
The increasingly compelling adventures of Meteor Man and his Hobbit friends
Spoiler:
-Meteor Man is pursued by the three witches, their leader employing a shapeshifting magic that I'm actually OK with. They didn't really have any reason to use it any of the other times we saw them, and I think it supports my theory on what their nature is, more on that further down.*
-They've correctly deduced that he'd be drawn to the image of Nori because earlier she sprang to their defense (and their leader plucked some hair or an ornament from her head continuing her theme of casting spells based on things she must first touch) and while the bit where her eyes are the first thing to change, having the brass section loudly fart out a scare chord when it happens felt pandering and sucked the menace out of the scene.
-Also I believe that's the exact shot from the promos people were circling around and saying 'that's Sauron!'
-I groaned aloud when they announced that Meteor Man is Sauron and they're here to serve him. It's legit something I suspected from the moment he appeared in that crater, but by announcing it in the cold open they basically guaranteed he wasn't.
-That said, the show has been playing with biblical imagery throughout its run so far and the reveal that we have three wise women chasing falling stars to find their spiritual sovereign (who looks and acts like a thoroughly hemped up Jesus) is something I'm very much here for.
-They tell him they want to take him back east to Rhun, that a 'veil' has been placed upon him, cutting him off from his power.
-And even though we're jaded enough to know he's not really Sauron, I wonder if they're not actually wrong about the other things? He's clearly confused as to why he's here, but maybe he really has been cut off from his abilities for some reason related to his quest? At the very least, they knew he would come looking for that constellation, even if they didn't know who he actually was.
-Meteor Man has a sad, throws wind around, and they knock him out through more magic.*
-I actually like the little action sequence that follows, the hobbits fight in hobbity ways, sneaking around, making noise, throwing rocks and distracting while others sneak around and accomplish objectives, and in turn the witches use the tools we've been seeing them employ all this season, and the main one using her shapeshifting power to trick them into trying to rescue *her* is good fun menacing.
-The wizarding duel is a little too ostentatious to be authentic to anything Tolkien would wright, but it they're very deliberately invoking imagery from the movies here, which also has that problem. The short-haired witch again proves she's the most magically adept, capable of standing up to Meteor Man to some extent.*
-"Get away from me, or I will hurt you again." - I love the delivery of this line. Meteor Man believes he's Sauron and the only thing he can think to do is warn Nori to stay away so she won't get hurt, paying off a consistent unselfish quality that has been his throughline all season.
-And Nori, for her part knows she has no idea what the big picture in all this is and doesn't care, she's there to help her friend (and maybe save all her other friends who's she's inadvertently put in danger to save said friend) and cuts through all the doom and portent by being an earnest, uncomplicatedly good person.
-The witches realize their mistake, say he's not Sauron, that he's 'the other', 'the Istar', and Meteor Man declares 'I'm good!' and all of that feels added in post and is painfully awkward.
-When he banishes them, the three witches are shown in alternate forms (true forms?), all corpses in what appear to be different stages of decay, then they explode into moths and fly away.*
-*So... what exactly are the three witches? The first, loudest, and angriest voices cried out 'Ringwraiths?!' in performative outrage, but that's probably not the case, since the rings don't exist and the plot has made it clear that Sauron still hasn't figured out the recipe. Another potential option is that they are just ghosts, three generations of queens or mystics from Rhun all dedicated to serving Sauron - and while certainly possible as Tolkien allows for all manner of crazy ghosts in his setting, they also seem incredibly powerful, with the short haired one demonstrating mastery over fire and shape-changing stuff. I think by process of elimination they are supposed to be some kind of Miar, the same sorts of people as Gandalf, Sauron, the Balrogs, etc. many of which were turned to Morgoth and Sauron's service?
-RIP Sadoc, you defied every crotchety old hobbit authority figure trope you were supposed to embody and we didn't deserve you.
-Later, Nori and Meteor Man discuss what he's remembered, more's come back to him but he understands now that he needs to go to Rhun to seek his answers.
-And, naturally, we get confirmation that he's one of the Wizards as he explains the meaning of the word Istar.
-And, naturally, he's Gandalf, right? Of course he's Gandalf!
-The Harfoots get ready to leave, Nori's family know she wants to stay with Meteor Man, and offer her her pack and well wishes. Her goodbye with Poppy was very sweet and I wish she'd gone with them - yes it would be way too Samwise Gamgee, but I don't care.
-The hobbit/Meteor Man arc closes off with wise words for the ages: "When in doubt, Elanor Brandyfoot: always remember that I am Gandalf. That's me. I'm definitely Gandalf- do you think the folks at home have figured out I'm Gandalf? Oh I hope so!"
Galadriel, Halbrand, et all.
Spoiler:
-"The Sun began as something no bigger than the palm of my hand." Celeborn tries to tell Elrond that the Sun is a fruit from one of the two trees and bumps his head hard against the invisible wall of Silmarillion lore they're not allowed to talk about.
-Galadriel arrives and says they'd been riding six days without rest to get from the western edge of Mordor to west of the Misty Mountains. A figure I thought was completely silly but upon mathing it out... she probably could bypass the mountain ranges and take time off to sleep and still get there in under a week by horseback.
-Did they mention Halbrand had been hit by a lance in the previous episode? You'd think him having gone off and been the only one apparently attacked by orcs after the erruption would have raised more eyebrows.
-"And when I surfaced, all I could do was swim, and pray I had chosen wisely." - Galadriel and the showrunners acknowledging she went kinda crazy there.
-Halbrand discusses his past with Celebrimbor while tap dancing around the specifics "The Master I apprenticed to used to speak of the wonders of your craft.", "Nothing like your artistry.", "Where I came from...", "I've seen a trace of nickel added to iron..." and they all come rapidly one after another like an entire season's worth of suspicious dialogue all crammed into one conversation.
-In fact, this is probably the single biggest problem with this episode and its place in the series: After the Numenoreans decided to go to Middle Earth we had an entire extra episode where they decided to go to Middle Earth - this scene, this interaction with Halbrand and Celebrimbor is a point of similar significance: a point in which the destiny of the world changes, and it's been reduced to a *very rapid* back and forth quip fest because they simply don't have the runtime for them to interact and build a relationship. If this episode had been feature length (as had been rumored) or the extra Numenorean stuff hadn't happened and all the previous Galadriel events had been bumped up an episode then we probably would have been able to spend a good 30-45 minutes to build a rapport these two characters, give Celebrimbor time to open up to what he would assume is the secret wisdom of Iluvatar's impulsive second born children, and let the problems and their solution come up more gradually and organically.
-I love when they're discussing the size and shape of the object Galadriel asks if it can be a sword.
-The tree and the leaves being blighted is being treated less like an omen as the series goes on and more and more like the naked and unwelcome ticking clock added by the writers to up the sense of urgency that it is. It's annoying to see Gil-galad delivering most of these doomy portents too because when he isn't he's clearly playing the wise rational king he's supposed to be, not liking the idea of imbuing one person with the power to save the elves, even himself.
-Celebrimbor making the hard sell, and Galadriel subsequently confronting him about it is some great acting on the parts of Edwards and Clark, but its undercut by what I mentioned before about the problems of having Halbrand having arrived in Eregion all of 15 real time minutes ago.
-"Someone like me... Here... Working with the Elven smiths of Eregion. Thank you, Galadriel." You can hear the red alert siren going off in her head.
-"I'll never forget that. And I'll see to it that no one else does either." There's a little musical stinger here meant to make you feel uneasy, I think it's actually the first few notes of Sauron's big silly brass theme from LOTR.
-There's a mishap in the forge and Galadriel gets another scene where she's reminded of stuff she'd found while searching for Sauron. It's a reasonably good scene (that again feels rushed for being in the same episode as all these other ones) but I did notice two assistant elves adjusting beakers in the background instead of like, pulling shards of those beakers out of their bodies after that explosion which made me chuckle.
-This does lead into Galadriel confronting Halbrand on the very specific strange behaviour she's seen from him this epis- no wait, information about the Southlands' king she had one of the scribes dredge up.
-And for what its worth it's a good confrontation scene, she's already put the pieces together because of the stuff he's gotten up to since coming here, but she's clearly afraid of the answer. I'm not entirely sure why she choses to confront him at this point, she didn't chose the time or place, he came to her, could it be that she couldn't hold it in and wait until they were in a more crowded place with elven guards or something?
-"I have been awake since before the breaking of the first silence. In that time I have had many names." -Sauron legit hates the name Sauron, and I hope at some point we cover that the elves came up with it to make fun of his real name: Mairon.
-Sauron begins talking to her in visions, first as her brother in Valinor, then later as Halbrand. He gives her a very broad explanation as to what his intentions are, that he wants to fix the damage he's done to Middle-Earth, that he wants Galadriel to guide him as his queen, that she's his only hope for redemption and she must help him.
-In the past few weeks since this episode has aired, a lot of people are arguing that he's being honest here, and that Galadriel doomed Sauron and Middle-Earth because she couldn't let go of her hate. This is a bad take, and I'm going to outline why further down, but for the sake of argument here let me sum it up as: He's lying, she knows it, he bails.
-The visions close out with that scene of her drowning in the ocean, tangled up in debris, while explosions (thunder and lightning? war itself?) rage above the surface of the water, she's pulled out of it by Elrond, and I love that when he tells her the work is almost completed she runs into Celebrimbor's forge still gripping that knife and ready to go.
-She tells them Halbrand has left, and that he is dangerous and not to be trusted, but not exactly why- and when confronted on that part by Elrond she makes it clear she expects she'll get banished or something if the real reason comes out and she's probably right about that much.
-Celebrimbor is obviously upset but willing to stop the project based on her words, but she gives him an out: Halbrand's first choice was one thing (to rule them all) and his second choice was two, she sees how either option could sow division but if they dilute the power down to three beings that seek consensus or at least check each others balances they may be able to harness the power without playing into Sauron's plans.
-And while it is a bit of an ass-pull, Celebrimbor saying he needs gold and silver from valinor in order to do it gives Galadriel the moment we've been waiting for all season since the introduction of this dagger, where she has to let it go literally in order to, at least to some extent, step away from the raw grief for her brother that powers her quest for revenge, and start to take steps towards healing into the person we see in LotR. The line about true creation requiring sacrifice finally shows up and its not nearly as menacing as it was made out to be.
-The actual sequence where they forge the rings is pretty well done. I have literally no idea how jewelry is created so how much of this is fantasy world stuff and how much of it is 'real' jewelcraft I have no idea but that kind of adds to the mystique.
-The rings themselves look good, and distinct: can you imagine the uproar if they had just re-used the lotr props?
-With the rings forged, we close out on Sauron, still in the form of Halbrand, descending into Mordor, and the credits close on the ominous leitmotif we've had at different points in the show expanded into a full song with lyrics. The song itself discordant and unpleasant, but I wouldn't necessarily say 'bad' - just deliberately discordant and unpleasant by design.
This is coming out way more rambly than I intended it to, but after rewatching it a couple of times I think I've settled on it being a disappointing conclusion to the first season, but only mildly so. The first season throws a lot of balls in the air and there's simply not enough time to take the plots where they were at the start of the episode and get them to the point where they are at the end in a satisfying manner in the length of a regular episode. An extra twenty minutes would have done wonders here, an entire extra episode would have been better, even cutting out one episode worth of the extended stay in Numenor and introducing Celebrimbor to Sauron an episode earlier would have helped make their rapport more believable.
As it stand for the show itself, I'm overall positive about it, despite the disappointing season finale. The show itself was gorgeous to watch despite the occasional failed experiment by what is clearly an inexperienced studio trying to experiment with billions of dollars on the line. I'd say the effects work is cinema quality but Marvel has lowered that bar quite a bit - its really saying something when you really sit down and compare the effects shots of a scene like Halbrand and Galadriel on the ocean as the ripples all suddenly die off, or Meteor Man confronting the witches as a raging fire dies out and its just embers and trees and night sky as far as the eye can see, and compare that to a more mature production like House of the Dragon - who's episode that same week featured a much more obviously CGI dragon smashing through a floor that turned instantly to smoke as obviously CGI people ran around a foggy, dimly lit room. The sheer bulk of that budget is constantly on display.
I do worry that they tried to dumb some things down in these past couple of episodes in order to accommodate the people who claim its too difficult to follow despite not paying attention. Things tend to get really bad really fast when studio types let their contempt for their viewers' intelligence dictate how the show gets made.
Sauron
Spoiler:
So. At about the halfway mark of this episode we get the big reveal that Halbrand is Sauron. We've had some clues (along with a number of red herrings) all through the show and he truthfully admits point for point that his helping Galadriel has served his interests. He also offers Galadriel a very specific bargain: He tells her he wants to repair the damage he's done to Middle Earth, that he needs her help to do so. He offers her a position of equal power, an equal share of his plans, if only she will ally herself with him they will accomplish great things together and change the world for the better. He tells her she's already helped him, literally saved his life, and that only she can truly direct him towards redemption.
Here's the thing: He's lying.
How do we know he's lying? Ignoring source material that says wanting to fix Middle Earth was a favourite lie of his that he maybe, just maybe believed once, very early on, ignoring the future lore knowledge that the bargain he's offering is by and large the same one he offers Saruman in the 3rd age, ignoring the ways he's been lying to her from the very start with no indication of reluctance or doubt. Look at the way he reacts when Galadriel finally catches him:
-His first choice is to appear to her in the form of her brother, Finrod.
-As Finrod, he tells her what she wants to hear, that he's happy she kept his dagger, acknowledging her courage, how difficult it's been for her fighting for so long, etc. and then he says she completed the task that he could not.
-Galadriel catches this, and calls him on it right away: Finrod's task was hunting Sauron. She has not completed it.
-Sauron, as Finrod, lies again: Saying Finrod's task was to ensure peace, and that he realized that's what Sauron wanted too.
-Galadriel catches him again: Finrod didn't realize anything, or have a change of heart, he died.
-Sauron continues, tells her she can heal middle earth, all she has to do is lie by omission, let the others complete the work - and if she's considering it at all he manages to sink the idea by slipping back into character as Finrod, reminding her again that he murdered her brother and is now dangling him like a puppet in front of her.
She rejects his offer, and the vision changes. He subsequently feeds her new excuses, and in turn, offers new rewards for her cooperation - instead of a vague promise of healing middle earth by not blabbing to her friends, now he *needs her help* to fix it - and when that doesn't work, no actually he needs her to be his partner in this, his queen!
It's a desperation play on his part, ever more extravagant promises he has no intention to keep, (plus an unhealthy sprinkling of 'I'm the only one who sees your worth' that cuts a little close to Kylo Renn's abusive boyfriend talk in TLJ) which in turn become threats as she continues to resist him.
He also lets slip at this point that he knows about the magic blight stuff and the elves diminishing, despite them making a point of having Celebrimbor not tell him about it. Which probably means he's had an active hand in that part too - with the ultimate goal of dominating Gil Galad and his people.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/02 04:21:00
You make some excellent observations Captain Joystick, and I appreciate being able to go back and review some of those scenes in my head. I agree with a number of your assertions but overall i am not as generous as you are on my critique of the show‘s writing. I believe that I am lass satisfied with the show than you are but I also envy you being able to find as much enjoyment in it as you have.
Olthannon wrote: I think if they take on board some of the genuine criticism and work forward in the second season, then it can be a success.
Agreed - its not awful - however show makers sometimes double down on the things people don't like - see Discovery. Also its already being made isn't it so unless it did badly unlikely to chnage too much?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Honestly, the only way to salvage the show would be to completely redo it. They just broke too much of the lore and setting. Most major plot points happened incorrectly, out of order, or didn't happen at all.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Honestly, the only way to salvage the show would be to completely redo it. They just broke too much of the lore and setting. Most major plot points happened incorrectly, out of order, or didn't happen at all.
Unfortunately, with what they've said about most of the second season already being written, sunk cost fallacy and the amount of money mismanaged and blown all over the place, I really doubt they'd admit they fethed up and remake it from scratch and instead just double down on what their "vision" is. Gotta save face, or what little left there is of it.
regarding Sauron wanting to save/fix middle earth...
I think he was honest about this goal.... HOWEVER Galadriel was right to reject him.
I've always seen Sauron and Melkor as having an inherant differance one Tolkien himself noted IIRC, Melkor was, ultimately an insturment of chaos, he wanted to ruin, mar and wreck the great project of Illuvatar, he was, to borrow from D&D ultimately a force of chaotic evil. Sauron, however, desired control, and domination, he wished to order middle earth according to his desires.
So Sauron was correct, but obviously "help me repair things together" was an empty promise because he would have wished to control ehr as well, far from being a co-equal, galadriel would have simply ended up in shackles.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Indeed. I always saw that Sauron was the example of how strict Order can be Evil just as easily as it can be "Good". Sauron would be the same version of Order as the Emperor from Star Wars.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
AegisGrimm wrote: Indeed. I always saw that Sauron was the example of how strict Order can be Evil just as easily as it can be "Good". Sauron would be the same version of Order as the Emperor from Star Wars.
I would only argue that the Emperor doesn’t actually want Order. He’s more of an agent of Chaos, actively encouraging infighting and such. Vader is your agent of Order.
AegisGrimm wrote: Indeed. I always saw that Sauron was the example of how strict Order can be Evil just as easily as it can be "Good". Sauron would be the same version of Order as the Emperor from Star Wars.
I would only argue that the Emperor doesn’t actually want Order. He’s more of an agent of Chaos, actively encouraging infighting and such. Vader is your agent of Order.
I’d actually argue that the Emperor is Neutral Evil; he doesn’t really care about order or chaos, so long as it brings him power. He employs both chaos and order to achieve his goals (inciting civil war and then imposing a fascist dictatorship.)
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.