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Why did you even make a Middle Earth show if you're going to abandon so much of the written background?
It irks me so much that HBO lost the rights to make LOTR shows to Amazon, its such a farce.
HBO would have just canceled it after they finished filming for the tax write off…
I get the joke/reference, but that was Warner Bros. Discovery’s new leaderhips call. Hisorically HBO puts out premium quality, overwhelmingly.
Thoughts on latest episode, going to put in spoilers for the sake of folks who enjoy this show:
Spoiler:
In no particular order, with heavy sarcasm :
Forgot to skip the opening credits sequence and fell asleep again. I swore I wouldn’t do that after the last episode (and the previous episodes) but here I am. Meanwhile That Other Fantasy Show’s opening sequence feels like a roller coaster, despite having heard the theme for a decade almost.
There was a sound of a baby crying, a woman wailing and a man pleading for help while people wander aimlessly. But Galadriel stood there looking for Halbrand and Ellendil, screw the NPCs!
Oh no, Bronwyns dead! Some emotional growth (good or bad) for Theo to develop into a character we’d care about or hate through the next seasons. Nope! Bronwyn, fresh from her brief but dramatic near death “Tis but a flesh wound” arrow shot survived. Growth denied! Emotional impact negated! I should’ve known when there was no body found. They got me good!
The only notable fatality, amongst a village of dead NPCs is the least liked (by the shows own admission in previous episodes) of Isildurs friends. That was a powerful moment, up there with Wade’s shocking death in Obi-wan Kenobi Part IV. Isildur died too, but I’m so numb from his friends death reveal that it hasn’t registered yet. Almost feels like it isn’t real. Poor Ellendil!
Speaking of the village, the village population seems to have the same regenerative powers as the Dothraki army from the last season of GoT. Its as big/small as it needs to be at whatever part of the story its in.
The trope sound of a sword making noise as its unsheathed has grown so powerful that it can alert a group of Orcs walking through a forest ten feet away at night with torches burning in their faces.
Dwarves are still cool. No complaints there. I’m with the senior Durin, if the Elves time is up, its unnatural to meddle. Its not like the elves don’t have a far away land damn near exclusively to them that they can migrate to and never die.
The villians remain the most compelling parts of this series for me, if only because of their mystique. But I felt the same about Snoke and the Knights of Ren…
I’m glad the Southlands text was explicitly erased and replaced with Mordor. I’d have not known what the new region, covered in darkness, populated with Orcs and evil men with a massive fiery volcano would’ve been called. Had I did know, I might’ve felt my intelligence insulted. Had Adar said it in his creepy voice as he gazes longingly at the volcano spouting dark clouds, I’d have been ok with it probably, but the text reveal was silly.
Memberries Balrog! Seems too early, and the dwarves have a loooong way to go before contact.
I agree with your comments in the spoiler section.
nels1031 wrote: I get the joke/reference, but that was Warner Bros. Discovery’s new leaderhips call. Hisorically HBO puts out premium quality, overwhelmingly.
Might be a mix of references, but HBO Max has also been yanking a ton of stuff off their streaming service recently. Just wholesale wiping entire shows from existence.
I thought HBO wanted to do the LotR section of Tolkien's work again?
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
Please note our source of this 'mithril ' myth is Thranduil- the king who has lied about honoring Galadriel, and instead sent her to Valinor very much against her will.
Mostly because she's causing too much fuss trying to fight Sauron, who he is certain is dead.
He then lied to Elrond, to use him as a spy, and encouraged him to betray his friendship with the dwarves. Now this was also to confirm something- so he already knew of the rumors of mithril before sending him.
He then proves unknowledgable about dwarf lore, and rather than verifying it, immediately has his table gifted to Durin.
Has he at any point in the series been right, or even told the truth? Why on middle earth are we willing to trust him now? I believe he wants mithril, yes, but I think he spun a cool story to further manipulate Elrond. Or has been told a story to manipulate him in turn- if we've got Sauron poisoning the trees, and spinning tales about how mithril will solve it to get the ore he needs to forge rings- ingenious. How do people who live long enough to personally witness the distant past have unnamed, unknown heroes that did such signifcant deeds?
TLDR, Thranduil is full of it, and wants mithril.
Spoiler:
but the scene in the subsequent episode where Durin, in a fit of grief-rage throws the chunk of mithril across the table. It settles mere inches from that fancy elf tree leaf, and the ichor/death rotting the leaf is reversed.
So, IMHO, he does "just" want the mithril, but behind the myths there is some genuine truth to the preservation factor.
I've more or less moved on from the flu, but I've still got a lot of phlem and am coughing a lot. Appropriate then that this episode is called 'The Eye' and I should notice just before watching it that I popped a blood vessel in one of mine and I look like some kind of edgy anime villain.
After the events of last episode has effectively merged two storylines (sort of, see below) we have three major plot arcs this episode and for once it feels fairly comprehensive to the entire story of the show.
Galadriel et all:
Spoiler:
-After taking over last episode and stuffing it with action sequences, confessions of love, chase scenes, revelations, ominous dialogue and a twist ending, we were due for a cool-down episode and that's largely what's delivered here.
-Galadriel awakens to see the devastation wrought on the Southlands by the servants of the Enemy. The sky is choked with ash, the wails of the dying are carried on the wind, everything is burning.
-Then she kind of... wanders off?
-I can't overstress how weird it is for her to do this. At first I thought she might be in shock, but upon re-watching she's calling out for Elendil and the others, so what's the deal here? I feel like they were trying to convey that she way very far away from the Numenoreans when Mt. Doom blew its top, but that's not the impression I got last episode.
-While wandering in this way, she finds Theo, and takes him with her. At this point I thought she might be looking for the orcs (because that's what they end up finding), or maybe Adar, but they don't really give her a reason to think they've escaped (she doesn't look around in surprise at their absense, she doesn't go the barn where Adar was supposed to be and find him missing, etc)
-They do have some decent dialogue with each other though. Getting to the subject of how many orcs she's killed was a little awkward, but after he says it's good that she's killed so many, her line about it being dangerous to call evil deeds good struck me as one of the highlights of the show. I expect to hear it in a trailer at some point.
-She also confirms the existence of Celeborn - he's also gone to war and she hasn't seen him since. Between that and the line mentioned previously I think we're finally seeing the guideposts for Galadriel's arc going forward in the show: with Celeborn returning and trying to help her let go of revenge in lieu of guiding and helping others.
-A barn fell on Isildur! But of course we all remember from the previous episodes that tunnels have been dug all through the town and he is almost assuredly being swept downstream through a maze of underground rapids. And again he will almost assuredly wash up on shore and be rescued by Berek in a direct parallel to the scene in Two Towers where Aragorn falls off a cliff to pad out the runtime.
-Elendil and the Queen meanwhile rally the survivors and drive them back to their basecamp (again confirming there must have been a couple of days time between their arrival in middle earth and their arrival in the battle scene)
-The Queen reveals she was hit in the face with burning embers during the incident with Isildur in the barn, and is now blind - they chose to depict this injury using the subtle makeup technique known as absolutely nothing at all, as she looks awkwardly past the camera and tells the audience that she is now blind.*
-Back at camp, Elendil gradually has to accept that Isildur is dead (so that he can show up later dripping with water in a future episode) and sets Berek free so he can play his part in that sequence too. He then looks directly at the camera and tells the audience he regrets saving Galadriel.*
-Speaking of Galadriel - she and Theo get back to camp after a near miss with some orcs during the night. I find this interesting because some of the previous episodes have felt the need to shoehorn fight scenes into the narrative, and it looks like they might have had one here that they ultimately cut. Galadriel gave Theo her sword to defend himself if he needed to, and he carries it now like it very well saved his life - but we didn't actually see him use it.
-Halbrand is wounded - and leaves with Galadriel to go to Lindon and get Elvish medicine - this all seems really straightforward, but they mention explicitly that they found him on the road. I wonder if there's some special significance here?
-The episode's capstone is a shot where Adar and the orcs revel in their victory. He proclaims it's not the Southlands anymore and we get a long panning shot where the words 'Southlands' appear on screen, are burned out, and replaced by 'Mordor'*
*These scenes all feel like hasty and sloppy edits. Like some executive is listening to the people saying they're bored and keep checking their phones and is contemptuous enough of their viewers that they actually believe them. I hope I'm reading too much into this, because if the suits decide they need to go dumber everything I like about the show is going down the drain fast.
Meteor Man Superstar:
Spoiler:
-The Harfoots and company make it to the Grove without further harassment from CGI wolf monsters
-Nori is still clearly very shaken up after the incident with the ice, but it didn't lead to some silly 'go away I don't want you anymore' shaggy dog story scene and we're better off for it
-We see the eruption of Mt. Doom has caused some damage even as far out as they are. Nori doesn't want to ask the Stranger to fix it, but the other hobbits insist, and when she won't, Sadock asks him - and I like that we're seeing this reversal in their behaviour, as the entire village is coming to accept him, if not as one of them, then at least as a good thing, or even a friend.
-And once again we see him work some magic that seems to inexplicably lead to someone almost getting hurt. Only almost though. And after he leaves the damage is repaired so maybe it isn't that the magic is exacting a blood price, but he's exercising some evil that lashes out at the poor innocent harfoots as it leaves?
-Sadock, once again, proves himself to a decent upstanding fellow, gives the Stranger a scrap of paper with the star pattern he's looking for (did he restore it from the burned scrap from memory? was it a spare?) and directs him to travel west to the farside of Greenwood the Great (what would later be known as Mirkwood) and to seem the bigfolk settlements between it and the Misty Mountains.
-Nori also musters up the courage to give him an apple as he leaves, and though later she insists to her mom she was wrong all along and is 'just a harfoot' she proved there she's got a good, brave heart and will be a worthy protagonist for further seasons.
-The three witches show up a couple of days later. Per what others have said previously in thread, they're Easterlings from Rhun, which would put them as historical allies of Morgoth and later, Sauron. That doesn't really answer what's the deal with Meteor Man, or what they want to do to him, but there it is.
-Nori doesn't know anything about them at all, but sees they've deduced he's traveling west and straight up lies to them and says he was going south - another gut feeling?
-After they burn the harfoot camp and leave, Nori commits to chasing after the Stranger to warn him that he's being followed. I don't know what she intends to do if the witches find him, or her first?
-I am once again taken aback by how invested I am in the hobbit stuff. I really hope we get some kind of answer for Meteor Man, I'm ready for him to be Gandalf at the undocumented start of his journey, I'm ready for him to Sauron somehow ignorant of his destiny, please give me the answer before the end of the first season.
Durin v. Durin
Spoiler:
-The elven trade offer is a pretty sweet deal, it would basically represent a complete and comprehensive tithe of elven resources in exchange for the rare metal. The wood was probably most dearly offered in particular.
-King Durin's reluctance to treat with them at all seems to be at odds to his position when the mithril was first hinted at. I think we're meant to see it as illogical as Prince Durin does - but I think the change in position has to do with all the cave-ins that have been caused trying to mine it over the course of the show.
-Elrond employs both Empathy and Sympathy in dealing with the Dwarves in one speech, at once acknowledging that he can see the same flaws in the elves that the dwarves see (because he is, himself, apart from them) and demonstrating his own humility by kneeling before King Durin and pleading with him for aid. This doesn't really change the positions of either of the Durins, but it definitely seems to catch the attention of the dwarven nobles attending with them. I suspect this may come into play later.
-I like the conflict between King Durin and Prince Durin. The former is arguing, perhaps correctly, that they live in a setting with present gods who cause things to happen for a reason, and the latter is arguing, also perhaps correctly, that such considerations cannot come before one's love for one's fellow man (so to speak).
-This comes again in the scene with him and Disa. Durin seems ready to accept the tragedy of what is happening, but upon witnessing the leaf's blight being driven away by its proximity to the ore (as much as I dislike that plot point as I've outlined elsewhere) he can't bear to stand by and let it all go wrong. Durin IV is aggressively written against the dwarven stereotype and Owain Arther is knocking it out of the park.
-And that leads to a scene where they're digging in secret to find a safe route to a sizeable vein and they're found out (I really don't see why they were surprised by that, given the size of the earthquakes) and Durin III and IV get another one on one scene where the King tells him how he was weak as a child but he had a vision of him having a glorious future and it's both sweet and bitter - even though King Durin is that same dwarven stereotype played straight, it's still compelling to watch.
-Prince Durin is stirpped of his inheritence, Disa starts talking about overthrowing the king! For any of its shortcomings I appreciate that RoP has given us more good, not stupid dwarf content than all the hobbit movies combined.
-And of course, we're given a quick tease shot of a Balrog for the trailer. No, this doesn't mean Moria's about to fall, we're still well too early for that.
And just some quick observations:
Spoiler:
-Same Balrog as from Fellowship of the Ring, but not actually the same design.
--The horns aren't as rounded, consist of segments that turn at sharper angles at irregular points, overall profile is more angular
--Bigger teeth, fangs and tusks
--Bigger eyes
--Much like Sauron in the prologue, John Howe is clearly iterating upon the design from the movie rather than going for a drastic redesign, I wonder if people would have been confused if it had been one of his book balrog designs: a big black minotaur in black plate armour or something?
-So where was 'The Eye' in all this?
--All the other episodes have a title that pertains to something that happens in the episode. In the episode Adar everybody is talking non stop about Adar even if he doesn't appear in focus until the next episode, etc.
--But here, there are the Easterlings? One has a staff that kind of has an eye motif? Is that the Eye?
--Is it Disa? With her spooky glowy orange eyes?
--Is it the Queen's eyes? Which look fine despite her now being blind?
Captain Joystick wrote: I've more or less moved on from the flu, but I've still got a lot of phlem and am coughing a lot. Appropriate then that this episode is called 'The Eye' and I should notice just before watching it that I popped a blood vessel in one of mine and I look like some kind of edgy anime villain.
After the events of last episode has effectively merged two storylines (sort of, see below) we have three major plot arcs this episode and for once it feels fairly comprehensive to the entire story of the show.
Galadriel et all:
Spoiler:
-After taking over last episode and stuffing it with action sequences, confessions of love, chase scenes, revelations, ominous dialogue and a twist ending, we were due for a cool-down episode and that's largely what's delivered here.
-Galadriel awakens to see the devastation wrought on the Southlands by the servants of the Enemy. The sky is choked with ash, the wails of the dying are carried on the wind, everything is burning.
-Then she kind of... wanders off?
-I can't overstress how weird it is for her to do this. At first I thought she might be in shock, but upon re-watching she's calling out for Elendil and the others, so what's the deal here? I feel like they were trying to convey that she way very far away from the Numenoreans when Mt. Doom blew its top, but that's not the impression I got last episode.
-While wandering in this way, she finds Theo, and takes him with her. At this point I thought she might be looking for the orcs (because that's what they end up finding), or maybe Adar, but they don't really give her a reason to think they've escaped (she doesn't look around in surprise at their absense, she doesn't go the barn where Adar was supposed to be and find him missing, etc)
-They do have some decent dialogue with each other though. Getting to the subject of how many orcs she's killed was a little awkward, but after he says it's good that she's killed so many, her line about it being dangerous to call evil deeds good struck me as one of the highlights of the show. I expect to hear it in a trailer at some point.
-She also confirms the existence of Celeborn - he's also gone to war and she hasn't seen him since. Between that and the line mentioned previously I think we're finally seeing the guideposts for Galadriel's arc going forward in the show: with Celeborn returning and trying to help her let go of revenge in lieu of guiding and helping others.
-A barn fell on Isildur! But of course we all remember from the previous episodes that tunnels have been dug all through the town and he is almost assuredly being swept downstream through a maze of underground rapids. And again he will almost assuredly wash up on shore and be rescued by Berek in a direct parallel to the scene in Two Towers where Aragorn falls off a cliff to pad out the runtime.
-Elendil and the Queen meanwhile rally the survivors and drive them back to their basecamp (again confirming there must have been a couple of days time between their arrival in middle earth and their arrival in the battle scene)
-The Queen reveals she was hit in the face with burning embers during the incident with Isildur in the barn, and is now blind - they chose to depict this injury using the subtle makeup technique known as absolutely nothing at all, as she looks awkwardly past the camera and tells the audience that she is now blind.*
-Back at camp, Elendil gradually has to accept that Isildur is dead (so that he can show up later dripping with water in a future episode) and sets Berek free so he can play his part in that sequence too. He then looks directly at the camera and tells the audience he regrets saving Galadriel.*
-Speaking of Galadriel - she and Theo get back to camp after a near miss with some orcs during the night. I find this interesting because some of the previous episodes have felt the need to shoehorn fight scenes into the narrative, and it looks like they might have had one here that they ultimately cut. Galadriel gave Theo her sword to defend himself if he needed to, and he carries it now like it very well saved his life - but we didn't actually see him use it.
-Halbrand is wounded - and leaves with Galadriel to go to Lindon and get Elvish medicine - this all seems really straightforward, but they mention explicitly that they found him on the road. I wonder if there's some special significance here?
-The episode's capstone is a shot where Adar and the orcs revel in their victory. He proclaims it's not the Southlands anymore and we get a long panning shot where the words 'Southlands' appear on screen, are burned out, and replaced by 'Mordor'*
*These scenes all feel like hasty and sloppy edits. Like some executive is listening to the people saying they're bored and keep checking their phones and is contemptuous enough of their viewers that they actually believe them. I hope I'm reading too much into this, because if the suits decide they need to go dumber everything I like about the show is going down the drain fast.
Meteor Man Superstar:
Spoiler:
-The Harfoots and company make it to the Grove without further harassment from CGI wolf monsters
-Nori is still clearly very shaken up after the incident with the ice, but it didn't lead to some silly 'go away I don't want you anymore' shaggy dog story scene and we're better off for it
-We see the eruption of Mt. Doom has caused some damage even as far out as they are. Nori doesn't want to ask the Stranger to fix it, but the other hobbits insist, and when she won't, Sadock asks him - and I like that we're seeing this reversal in their behaviour, as the entire village is coming to accept him, if not as one of them, then at least as a good thing, or even a friend.
-And once again we see him work some magic that seems to inexplicably lead to someone almost getting hurt. Only almost though. And after he leaves the damage is repaired so maybe it isn't that the magic is exacting a blood price, but he's exercising some evil that lashes out at the poor innocent harfoots as it leaves?
-Sadock, once again, proves himself to a decent upstanding fellow, gives the Stranger a scrap of paper with the star pattern he's looking for (did he restore it from the burned scrap from memory? was it a spare?) and directs him to travel west to the farside of Greenwood the Great (what would later be known as Mirkwood) and to seem the bigfolk settlements between it and the Misty Mountains.
-Nori also musters up the courage to give him an apple as he leaves, and though later she insists to her mom she was wrong all along and is 'just a harfoot' she proved there she's got a good, brave heart and will be a worthy protagonist for further seasons.
-The three witches show up a couple of days later. Per what others have said previously in thread, they're Easterlings from Rhun, which would put them as historical allies of Morgoth and later, Sauron. That doesn't really answer what's the deal with Meteor Man, or what they want to do to him, but there it is.
-Nori doesn't know anything about them at all, but sees they've deduced he's traveling west and straight up lies to them and says he was going south - another gut feeling?
-After they burn the harfoot camp and leave, Nori commits to chasing after the Stranger to warn him that he's being followed. I don't know what she intends to do if the witches find him, or her first?
-I am once again taken aback by how invested I am in the hobbit stuff. I really hope we get some kind of answer for Meteor Man, I'm ready for him to be Gandalf at the undocumented start of his journey, I'm ready for him to Sauron somehow ignorant of his destiny, please give me the answer before the end of the first season.
Durin v. Durin
Spoiler:
-The elven trade offer is a pretty sweet deal, it would basically represent a complete and comprehensive tithe of elven resources in exchange for the rare metal. The wood was probably most dearly offered in particular.
-King Durin's reluctance to treat with them at all seems to be at odds to his position when the mithril was first hinted at. I think we're meant to see it as illogical as Prince Durin does - but I think the change in position has to do with all the cave-ins that have been caused trying to mine it over the course of the show.
-Elrond employs both Empathy and Sympathy in dealing with the Dwarves in one speech, at once acknowledging that he can see the same flaws in the elves that the dwarves see (because he is, himself, apart from them) and demonstrating his own humility by kneeling before King Durin and pleading with him for aid. This doesn't really change the positions of either of the Durins, but it definitely seems to catch the attention of the dwarven nobles attending with them. I suspect this may come into play later.
-I like the conflict between King Durin and Prince Durin. The former is arguing, perhaps correctly, that they live in a setting with present gods who cause things to happen for a reason, and the latter is arguing, also perhaps correctly, that such considerations cannot come before one's love for one's fellow man (so to speak).
-This comes again in the scene with him and Disa. Durin seems ready to accept the tragedy of what is happening, but upon witnessing the leaf's blight being driven away by its proximity to the ore (as much as I dislike that plot point as I've outlined elsewhere) he can't bear to stand by and let it all go wrong. Durin IV is aggressively written against the dwarven stereotype and Owain Arther is knocking it out of the park.
-And that leads to a scene where they're digging in secret to find a safe route to a sizeable vein and they're found out (I really don't see why they were surprised by that, given the size of the earthquakes) and Durin III and IV get another one on one scene where the King tells him how he was weak as a child but he had a vision of him having a glorious future and it's both sweet and bitter - even though King Durin is that same dwarven stereotype played straight, it's still compelling to watch.
-Prince Durin is stirpped of his inheritence, Disa starts talking about overthrowing the king! For any of its shortcomings I appreciate that RoP has given us more good, not stupid dwarf content than all the hobbit movies combined.
-And of course, we're given a quick tease shot of a Balrog for the trailer. No, this doesn't mean Moria's about to fall, we're still well too early for that.
And just some quick observations:
Spoiler:
-Same Balrog as from Fellowship of the Ring, but not actually the same design.
--The horns aren't as rounded, consist of segments that turn at sharper angles at irregular points, overall profile is more angular
--Bigger teeth, fangs and tusks
--Bigger eyes
--Much like Sauron in the prologue, John Howe is clearly iterating upon the design from the movie rather than going for a drastic redesign, I wonder if people would have been confused if it had been one of his book balrog designs: a big black minotaur in black plate armour or something?
-So where was 'The Eye' in all this?
--All the other episodes have a title that pertains to something that happens in the episode. In the episode Adar everybody is talking non stop about Adar even if he doesn't appear in focus until the next episode, etc.
--But here, there are the Easterlings? One has a staff that kind of has an eye motif? Is that the Eye?
--Is it Disa? With her spooky glowy orange eyes?
--Is it the Queen's eyes? Which look fine despite her now being blind?
Some great observations thoughtfully spelled out and I agree with you.
I want to love this show but it has been stumbling along more than it should have given the time and resources it has been given.
I was wondering about the mithril’s elf healing properties. Could that be a way for the writers to have the Dwarfs mine it (to help their allies) rather than standard dwarf greed (we must have all the shiny)?
It’s still rather an odd addition - I don’t remember anything about such properties of the metal from my limited reading of Tolkien’s works.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Although, given the lack of mining props I saw in the tunnels they were digging, I should have thought they’d be more than happy for some elven lumber!
My main issue with this most recent episode was someone with an apparently grievous abdominal wound cantering off on horseback to see medical aid. Surely that wouldn’t be good for the injury?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/10 07:45:41
Souleater wrote: I was wondering about the mithril’s elf healing properties. Could that be a way for the writers to have the Dwarfs mine it (to help their allies) rather than standard dwarf greed (we must have all the shiny)?
It’s still rather an odd addition - I don’t remember anything about such properties of the metal from my limited reading of Tolkien’s works.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Although, given the lack of mining props I saw in the tunnels they were digging, I should have thought they’d be more than happy for some elven lumber!
My main issue with this most recent episode was someone with an apparently grievous abdominal wound cantering off on horseback to see medical aid. Surely that wouldn’t be good for the injury?
Its all a bit silly...and he is the only one to benefit from Elf healing.....not the queen and certainly not his subjects.....
The Mithril is just....yeah....
The Elves are doomed - well unless they sail to the undying lands and live in paradise....cos that is option 2.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
With the way that they’ve handled Dwarves and Orcs,I wouldn’t be mad if they shifted gears from the Rings of Power to a Fall of Moria type mini-series.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/10/11 01:01:46
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Baragash wrote: I thought HBO wanted to do the LotR section of Tolkien's work again?
yep, HBO wanted to remake The Lord of the Rings. Netflix (whose offer was higher than Amazon's) wanted to make a Tolkien Cinematic Universe with different series for different Third Age characters. Amazon's was the only offer that included the Tolkien Estate involved in the creation, direction, and production of the show.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Forgot to skip the opening credits sequence and fell asleep again. I swore I wouldn’t do that after the last episode (and the previous episodes) but here I am. Meanwhile That Other Fantasy Show’s opening sequence feels like a roller coaster, despite having heard the theme for a decade almost.
What a strange criticism - for me the opening credits are one of the best parts of the show (and the height of the rollercoaster, as typically the quality usually goes down from here). Howard Shore's wonderful composition of, with matching visuals, the music of the Ainur and the creation of Ea, is just wonderful, along with Melkor's little section. Conversely, after watching House of the Dragon's opening credits a few times, I routinely skip those, as the cleverness of the bloodlines kinda wore off after a bit and the visuals are nowhere near as interesting to watch as the original clockwork Westeros from GoT.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/11 13:43:18
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My main issue with this most recent episode was someone with an apparently grievous abdominal wound cantering off on horseback to see medical aid. Surely that wouldn’t be good for the injury?
I get the impression the wound has been caused by a pre-curser to the morgal blades and Halbrand is on his way to Wraithdom unless its treated fast. Galadriel is not letting onto it to not alert him. This type of wound is the only thing to be untreatable by non elvish means we know of. The wound may well be stable, the poison though is creeping in.
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My main issue with this most recent episode was someone with an apparently grievous abdominal wound cantering off on horseback to see medical aid. Surely that wouldn’t be good for the injury?
I get the impression the wound has been caused by a pre-curser to the morgal blades and Halbrand is on his way to Wraithdom unless its treated fast. Galadriel is not letting onto it to not alert him. This type of wound is the only thing to be untreatable by non elvish means we know of. The wound may well be stable, the poison though is creeping in.
Lots of things untreatable by quasi-medievil healers - I doubt the Queen is going to see again and most of those wounded in the village are going to die.
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I went in to this show with an open mind, with the intent to hopefully enjoy it. It was poorly written, badly paced, and seemed cheap at times despite the extravagant budget. Disappointed, to say the least.
Not much of a student of Tolkien lore, but it seems to have done it a big disservice as well.
This season was built around mystery boxes. With all of them revealed, I have low hopes for season 2 given how clumsy this first season was.
Spoiler:
Why did Galadriel say that Halbrand was wounded by an enemy lance? Wasn’t he wounded during the selectively fatal eruption debris or did I miss something?
Dialogue was gak, per the norm. The “power over flesh” line that raised Galadriels suspicion seemed so forced.
No Dwarves, boo!
No Adar/Orcs, boo!
Having watched so many streamers that were convinced Halbrand was Sauron from day one, I wasn’t surprised. The Stranger/Meteor Man was exactly what he appeared to be, a wizard. Feminem and friends were a red herring. Kind of a waste too, would’ve made more sense if they had been sent by Sauron to kill the wizard, rather then them being wrong about the wizards identity. What even made them think he was Sauron?
Hopefully less Harfoot nonsense in the next season, given that Nori has set off with the wizard
Closing music was terrible. Hope Fiona Apple was paid well for it at least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/14 06:47:15
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Sadly, the finale has confirmed all my worries. There was no red herring to throw the more observant viewers off, no sign that the writers had a clever idea to bring it home. It's all just as plain and predictable as expected and – most disturbingly – it's all wrong.
I'm glad this is over and I can only hope they step up their game for season two, but I'm afraid the damage is done.
I was disappointed that having opted for misdirection at the start, it lasted a whole 30 minutes, would have been better if they had found a way to draw it out over, say, half a season.
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I remember reading someone's theory that halbrand was Sauron and would turn bad due to being rejected by Galadriel... sure glad that didn't happen. [/sarcasm]
How/why would those three wraith/followers of Sauron not know that metor man is
Spoiler:
not Sauron, but a sodding Wizard!
That just felt dumb and done purely for the misdirection.
Yet another slow motion scene of Galadriel riding a horse... for some reason this is going to become a thing in this show I guess.
End music was dire, not many music scores makes me want to claw my own ears off... but that one did.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/14 14:41:54
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
First time a wizards been down to earth, right? I imagine they were honing in on the power level, and hadn’t personally met a Wizard before to realize the difference right away, especially as his power wasn’t turned up initially.
AduroT wrote: First time a wizards been down to earth, right? I imagine they were honing in on the power level, and hadn’t personally met a Wizard before to realize the difference right away, especially as his power wasn’t turned up initially.
True, I could be wrong, but in the setting things that are evil give off a bit of vibe shall we say. Would have thought that seeing they were shown to be creatures of spirit and not Flesh & Blood, they'd have seen him in the spirit place/realm/whatever it is called (gloom?) and said 'nah, mate... this isn't Sauron, it's a sodding powerful thing, but Sauron it ain't!'
The objective of the game is to win. The point of the game is to have fun. The two should never be confused.
Mrs. GG and I are, like several of you, disappointed.
We went in with low expectations at the beginning thanks to Wheel of Time and the show pleasantly surprised us. But as the season went on, despite decent casting, some clever ideas and excellent set design, the poor writing kept dragging the show down.
The season finale seemed to be wrapped around some clever storyboard boxes with little to link those boxes together. The whole show seems focused on images, on specific scenes, without comprehensive storytelling to tie it all together. Several annoying plotholes and ultimately I feel the decision to compress time was a very poor one.
It was not great - I still like alot of the cast, the visuals are good but yeah....
Spoiler:
Why did the three sorcerers call him a wizard - how do they even know what one is? I think Sauron is the ssame type of demi-god though?
Why did the gods chuck Gandalf at Midde Earth in a meteor when ships can come and go from the undying lands or are they going to say he choose to go without permission or something. Very odd
Sauron does not kill Galadriel because...she's cute? Why does he want the Elves to stay?
I was starting to get iritated with a human telling the Elves how to forge magical items before he was reveled as Sauron so that at least was good.
The end song was truly awful - just recite the poem properly!
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
The gods chucked wizard cos it's funny, duh. "Lmao lets yeet this old dude at the planet instead of using the boats."
As for Sauron not killing Galadriel, he's playing 4d Chess. Why kill your nemesis when you can bring them to your side? It's kind of his deal that he uses people and corrupts to gain pawns or remove obstacles. That's what the Rings were for after all, plus he did it to Numenor and Saruman.
Sone great moments. Loved Notdalf and the Harfoots - now he's talking, the character is great.
Forging the three rings, I enjoyed. The reason for 3 as a bulwark against a despot was good - whoever ends up crafting the 7 and the 9 clearly wants no rivals.
Elendil is great.
Elrond and Durin and Disa and Durin remain the standout.
We're seeing the seeds of Numenor's downfall in its arrogance and fear of death.
The rest, I have to admit, is a bit of a soggy mess. Characterisations: Sauron was... kinda ok as a tempter and a deceiver. Galadriel is still a bit too prissy. The thought that Sauron was attempting to atone, and pushed back to his old ways by Galadriel doesn't really work.
The compressed storyline isn't great. A lot of the dialogue is cringe worthy. The plot and pacing are all over the place
Suffers from the same issue as the Solo movie - trying to squeeze ALL rhe backstory into one series. It isn't needed.
Momotaro wrote: Forging the three rings, I enjoyed. The reason for 3 as a bulwark against a despot was good - whoever ends up crafting the 7 and the 9 clearly wants no rivals.
How is crafting three for the reason given in any way logical? If two of the three disagree with the third, that's not 'balance'. If one can turn evil, why does tripling that chance make more sense? Why not four; or two?
And why did they all come out different colours, when the exact same mixture of mithril, gold, silver, and steel (haha super smith guy didn't have any gold silver he was able to use!) was used to make all of them?
Boats don't sink because they look up *shakes head* Unless they're full of explosive wine!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/16 12:38:18
Momotaro wrote: Forging the three rings, I enjoyed. The reason for 3 as a bulwark against a despot was good - whoever ends up crafting the 7 and the 9 clearly wants no rivals.
How is crafting three for the reason given in any way logical? If two of the three disagree with the third, that's not 'balance'. If one can turn evil, why does tripling that chance make more sense? Why not four; or two?
And why did they all come out different colours, when the exact same mixture of mithril, gold, silver, and steel (haha super smith guy didn't have any gold silver he was able to use!) was used to make all of them?
Boats don't sink because they look up *shakes head* Unless they're full of explosive wine!
Tripods are classically one of the more stable structures.
When they spin the molten metal you can see it separate out into bands. Like a primitive centrifuge. More dense to the outside. Then he dips into the band to get the desired metal. Perfect? Nope. But good enough for the story.
On balance I enjoyed it and am looking forward to season 2. It's not perfect by any means, though.
Spoiler:
I would have liked a bit more of Sauron's genuine attempt at atonement (as hinted in The Silmarillion) lasting most of a season, as he moves from wanting to help, to thinking being a benign dictator is the way to go, before full on evil, rather than getting it over with in a short conversation/mind-meld. Helbrand was always a candidate for Sauron so we can't be too surprised or disappointed that it turned out to be him.
The ring-forging was good, and the mithral-heals-elves line at least has an excuse for its existence - to provide the rings with the essence to help elvenkind. Still seems wrong, though. With this season being about the elven rings (amongst other things) is the Dwarven rings next, then The Nine?)
OK, so it's proto-Gandalf, aka: Olorin - fair enough. I had him down as Sauron, kicked out of Valinor after judgement, and sent by drop-pod to the Harfoots to do penance. Being Gandalf just seemed too.... straightforward.
Also the idea of using a Trimvirate to balance out a political structure is one thats been used plenty of times before, in history, sometimes with better results then others but I think it's pretty clear thats just an excuse Galadrial is in a bit of a position here, she knows the rings are ESSENTIAL, but at the same time, she knows they've been dancing to Sauron's tune, so she has to change the plan agreed on, maybe just eneugh to ensure whatever he's plotting doesn't come to pass. changing the number of rings is really the most obvious answer. Sauron, last he was present knew they where making 2 rings, by adding a third into the mix, she can add an element of uncertinty.
or thats how I read it.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
I agree with you both, I also think that the whole “light draining away”, whilst a bit clunky, at least gives a motivation as to why the Elves needed to create the rings and why they did it in such a hurry without taking half a millennia to consider the consequences.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
stonehorse wrote: I remember reading someone's theory that halbrand was Sauron and would turn bad due to being rejected by Galadriel... sure glad that didn't happen. [/sarcasm]
How/why would those three wraith/followers of Sauron not know that metor man is
Spoiler:
not Sauron, but a sodding Wizard!
That just felt dumb and done purely for the misdirection.
Yet another slow motion scene of Galadriel riding a horse... for some reason this is going to become a thing in this show I guess.
End music was dire, not many music scores makes me want to claw my own ears off... but that one did.
It must be tempting to throw up misdirecting cues, because every other show does it, and I can only assume a lot of people are entertained by the constant readjusting of their opinions throughout a show. Who's really the bad guy? Is that person who they claim to be? Will those two stay friends? Why did that guy do that? It's easy writing, because it allows you to come up with the answer much later on. The shame of it is they expect us to be astonished at the final reveal when of course, through the endless computations you've had to do in trying to figure it out, inevitably you've reached all the possible answers. By the time of the reveal, whichever way the coin lands, you're over it.
Presenting you with an idea, then disproving it so show you how clever they are, just isn't Tolkien. It might work in other shows, but here it's painfully out of place.
Offering my ha’penny worth as a relative outside observer, given I’ve never read Tolkein. And whilst I’ve enjoyed the films (not you, Hobbit trilogy) I’ve no particular affinity for it. Perhaps my lack of overall…I don’t want to say reverence, but familiarity might do..for the source material might serve as an interesting counter point. Because when you’re a long term fan of a beloved property, perhaps it can be hard to see the forest for the trees, as you’re noticing what isn’t there, and missing what is there.
What follows is not a critique or comment on anyone else’s postings.
This show was….odd.
There are aspects I absolutely loved (Dwarfs, Orcs, Dwarf Cities especially)
Some I’m entirely a bit more positive than ambivalent about (majority of the series)
Some I’m left scratching my head about (surviving a pyroclastic flow to the face)
But overall it’s perfectly enjoyable. As someone familiar with the movie characters, I quite enjoyed the misdirection about which Mystery Mister Was Who. Certainly there were rug pulls, but well enough earned for me, and not “ha ha ha aren’t the audience dum” type rug pulls.
Overall I’ll be tuning in for the second season, whenever that arrives.
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