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Back at the end of 6th in competitive play the list that won games were list like ovesa star. Now in 7th I think running an MSU style list is the way to go as objective secured is so important. So far in 7th I've been running a couple of MSU lists and haven't had a defeat in 10 games. I think this is because my opponents can't handle the amount of objective secured units. I would often get outshot and out assaulted but because I have 12 objective secured units my opponent can't kill them all and I end up winning by objectives. I'll put a sample list below this list has beaten tau 3 times purely through holding objectives.

1750 chaos

HQ
Lord (basically tax to get plague marines)
Mark of nurgle, combi melta

TROOPS
5 plague marines
2 plasma, rhino

5 plague marines
2 plasma, rhino

5 plague marines
2 plasma, rhino

5 plague marines
2 melta, rhino

5 plague marines
2 melta, rhino

5 plague marines
2 flamer, rhino

FAST ATTACK
Heldrake (I know it got nerfed but they're still great)

Heldrake

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator (been swapping between these and maulerfiends)
Dozer blade

Vindicator
Dozer blade

As you can see Lots of scoring and relatively tough as even a wave serpent will only kill on average 2.17 per turn. So what does dakka think will MSU list rein supreme or is there another type of list that will sprout up?

The problem is that rhino's just aren't that fast.
Going up against a list like this, wide spread objectives will give you a headache.

MSU is good, but I'm not sure chaos is best at it.
Eldar could run
Spirit Seer
6x5 dire avengers, all in serpents with scatter/cannon and holo
3x fire prisms with holo
They also pack 12 objective secured units, but IMO, serp + avenger > rhino w/ plague.
42 S6 shots and 6D6+6 S7 shots could put your whole army on foot in a turn.


As for the chaos list, I'd drop a rhino or two, replace with the cheap cultists blobs, and then pick up some bikes with the points saved.
Objective secured it good, but sometimes normal scoring is good enough and speed to get to the objective is more important than being super scoring but unable to reach the objective.

I'm finding MSU using Drop Pods is a good option, they can get anywhere on the table and your unit can move quickly to the objective if the drop pod doesn't make it

Yeah this is the worst of my lists but it is still able to beat armies like tau. I also run an MSU/beast star that is my favourite 7th list and a 4 serpent 2 wraithknight and laughing aura rich list. I find having mobile objective secured ridiculous. Things like jetbikes are great for last minute steals from opponents non objective secured units. I think having lots of speedy scoring is definitely the way to go.

I've been meaning to run a MSU ork army, specifically aimed at taking tactical objectives.

At 2k I can field 18 trukks of boys with 3 KFF meks covering them. that's 36 OS units on the field, and 183 orks to target seperately. it could win without even firing a shot...

 some bloke wrote:
I've been meaning to run a MSU ork army, specifically aimed at taking tactical objectives.

At 2k I can field 18 trukks of boys with 3 KFF meks covering them. that's 36 OS units on the field, and 183 orks to target seperately. it could win without even firing a shot...

Yeah, and I'll take:
Astorath the Grim
5x3 Death Company
5 Land Raiders,
Death Company dreadnought.
2 Land Speeders with heavy flamers
Objective Secure is awesome, but you reach saturation at some point. I'd have 5 land raiders you couldn't hurt, and a dreadnought you'd have to get behind and shoot, without getting close enough to get charged.

Once all the objectives are contested by both of use (shouldn't take long), then it just comes down to the other half of the cards, and one player being able to affect the other makes it pretty short work.
Rather than 18 trukks, how about ~9, and then add some teeth to that army.

 some bloke wrote:
I've been meaning to run a MSU ork army, specifically aimed at taking tactical objectives.

At 2k I can field 18 trukks of boys with 3 KFF meks covering them. that's 36 OS units on the field, and 183 orks to target seperately. it could win without even firing a shot...

What do you have to deal with any OS armour? Such as a Wave Serpent? or 6?

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
I've been meaning to run a MSU ork army, specifically aimed at taking tactical objectives.

At 2k I can field 18 trukks of boys with 3 KFF meks covering them. that's 36 OS units on the field, and 183 orks to target seperately. it could win without even firing a shot...

Yeah, and I'll take:
Astorath the Grim
5x3 Death Company
5 Land Raiders,
Death Company dreadnought.
2 Land Speeders with heavy flamers
Objective Secure is awesome, but you reach saturation at some point. I'd have 5 land raiders you couldn't hurt, and a dreadnought you'd have to get behind and shoot, without getting close enough to get charged.

Once all the objectives are contested by both of use (shouldn't take long), then it just comes down to the other half of the cards, and one player being able to affect the other makes it pretty short work.
Rather than 18 trukks, how about ~9, and then add some teeth to that army.

quite right, and this sort of army would cripple a pure trukk ork list. it was only a hypothetical thing, it wasn't ever suggested as viable. filling an army with the exact same thing never does well, it takes away all target priority decisions and will always find a hard counter.

drop it to 12 trukks with powerklaw nobs and boarding planks though, and those landraiders will go "poof!". and that's only 1750 ish!

 extremefreak17 wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
I've been meaning to run a MSU ork army, specifically aimed at taking tactical objectives.

At 2k I can field 18 trukks of boys with 3 KFF meks covering them. that's 36 OS units on the field, and 183 orks to target seperately. it could win without even firing a shot...

What do you have to deal with any OS armour? Such as a Wave Serpent? or 6?

Wave serpents are easy for fast orks to deal with. seriously, you'd think that trukks would struggle, but 3 trukks per wave serpent is good odds. and here's the clincher:

with tactical objectives, I know where those waveserpents will be. and if I can get in charge range, i can glance them to death with ease. I can use the eldar players tactical objectives against them. oh, so you want number 5 do you? I'll just put 5 trukks in range to charge there next turn...

I'd face down 6 waveserpents with 18 trukks on a tactical objectives game any day.

Couldn't you just use your drop pods to grab objectives and contest. You could just run your troops up the board firing and use the pods without the troops inside to capture and hold. That might make for easy holding of out of the way objectives. I know they're not very strong but better armor than any other option, all around?

Yes, superscoring MSU is the new deathstar for Maelstrom missions. Fast armies, like eldar jetbikes are also good, but if the other player got there first with a superscoring unit (like a drop pod) they have to clear it off to claim it - 3 eldar jetbikes aren't going to do that.

Drop pods will be excellent for messing up opponent strategies (dropping them empty is an evil, evil idea ) as their non superscoring heavy support sitting on the back objective will now need to kill an empty drop pod to score.

Now that CtA allies can be taken in any list, you'd be mad not to throw a couple of SW/SM pods with 5 GH into every list, just to capture those far away objectives.

I was thinking this with grey knights.

Take Coteaze and 6 units of 3 warrior acolytes with one melta gun in a chimera with 2 heavy flamers.

Now Coteaze's ability that makes inquisitorial units troops says its for the whole army and I couldn't find anything that says its detachment based in the FAQ.

In that case you could take a secondary detachment with 6 more units of acolytes in chimeras, and a xenos inquisitor with three servo skulls all for 1000 points.

It sounds pretty gross.

GK FAQ, page 3 second item from the bottom on left hand side. Sorry, it is detachment only.

Thing is, once the vehicles are dead, you're left with a 3 model unit that dies to a stiff breeze.

So, in a Maelstrom mission, that isn't enough to secure objectives over 5 turns. I reckon you actually have to have something useful inside the vehicles.

That's probably for the best really.

The thing is that it is so cheap that you will still have lots of options to bring in some fire support. With the double heavy flamer build the chimeras are scary anti infantry. 6 plus coteaze is only 562 points for 12 objective secured units.

I don't really know whats good with grey knights but I'm sure with another 1000 or so points you could add in some scary stuff. Maybe 3 nemesis dread knights and a couple storm ravens.

coblen wrote:
That's probably for the best really.

The thing is that it is so cheap that you will still have lots of options to bring in some fire support. With the double heavy flamer build the chimeras are scary anti infantry. 6 plus coteaze is only 562 points for 12 objective secured units.

I don't really know whats good with grey knights but I'm sure with another 1000 or so points you could add in some scary stuff. Maybe 3 nemesis dread knights and a couple storm ravens.

And a Grandmaster to make a D3 of them Objective Secure scoring.

Wave serpents are easy for fast orks to deal with. seriously, you'd think that trukks would struggle, but 3 trukks per wave serpent is good odds. and here's the clincher:

with tactical objectives, I know where those waveserpents will be. and if I can get in charge range, i can glance them to death with ease. I can use the eldar players tactical objectives against them. oh, so you want number 5 do you? I'll just put 5 trukks in range to charge there next turn...

I'd face down 6 waveserpents with 18 trukks on a tactical objectives game any day.

Here is the problem, If the Eldar player were running a spammy list such as yours, they could bring 9 Serpents with 2 cheap HQs in a Battle Forged list. I would take 9 Wave serpents against 18 trucks ANY DAY. Each Wave Serpent will be averaging 2 HP when firing the shield alone. Add in the scatter lasers + cannon and hell would pretty much have to freeze over before a serpent failed to wreck a trukk in a single round of shooting. Lets say one does fail. You still lose 8 trukks turn one, and have nothing in range to even shoot back. You will likely be tabled by turn 5.

How do you exspect to catch any of the wave serpents? They are a hell of a lot faster than your trukks, and given a player who is not brain-dead, will always be at max range. Not to mention they can just drop the troops off to score for a turn, let them die, and just fly away.

 extremefreak17 wrote:

Wave serpents are easy for fast orks to deal with. seriously, you'd think that trukks would struggle, but 3 trukks per wave serpent is good odds. and here's the clincher:

with tactical objectives, I know where those waveserpents will be. and if I can get in charge range, i can glance them to death with ease. I can use the eldar players tactical objectives against them. oh, so you want number 5 do you? I'll just put 5 trukks in range to charge there next turn...

I'd face down 6 waveserpents with 18 trukks on a tactical objectives game any day.

Here is the problem, If the Eldar player were running a spammy list such as yours, they could bring 9 Serpents with 2 cheap HQs in a Battle Forged list. I would take 9 Wave serpents against 18 trucks ANY DAY. Each Wave Serpent will be averaging 2 HP when firing the shield alone. Add in the scatter lasers + cannon and hell would pretty much have to freeze over before a serpent failed to wreck a trukk in a single round of shooting. Lets say one does fail. You still lose 8 trukks turn one, and have nothing in range to even shoot back. You will likely be tabled by turn 5.

How do you exspect to catch any of the wave serpents? They are a hell of a lot faster than your trukks, and given a player who is not brain-dead, will always be at max range. Not to mention they can just drop the troops off to score for a turn, let them die, and just fly away.

Not really no, 9 Serpents with holo/canon/scatter is 1890 points if you fill them only with Dire Avengers.

morgoth wrote:

Not really no, 9 Serpents with holo/canon/scatter is 1890 points if you fill them only with Dire Avengers.

This point was referencing 2k points of ork trukks. So 1890pts of serpents is a good comparison.

I really hope that MSU replaces death stars. It's much more fun having multiple firefights all over the table, rather than pointing your entire army at one enemy unit and slowly picking away one dude a turn.

Win conditions determine what is good or not.

I have yet to lose a maelstrom mission. The closest I got was because he almost tabled me. However the only reason he almost tabled me was because I was playing to the mission and got a crap ton of points.

Mobility is the name of the game, mobility with OS is even better.