Games publisher attempts to patent RPG mechanics ( not GW)

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**reds8n**

http://www.geeknative.com/46075/games-publisher-attempts-patent-rpg-mechanics/

The American patent system is well known among techies – and not for good reasons. This is the entity that granted Amazon a patent for taking photos against a white background.

Right now the US Patent and Trademark Office is considering giving a small publisher the patent protected rights to convert entities (PCs, Monsters, NPCs, stats, weapons, etc) from one genre to another.

For example, moving your Beyond the Supernatural character to Rifts would become a patent protected right. Exploring universes in Monte Cook’s The Strange might also come under the patent. The list goes on.

The issue came to light during a Q&A session on Dan Davenport’s #rpgnet channel. It was then blogged by Bedroom Wall Press. The full transcript of the conversation can be found at GM Shoe but here’s a relevant snippet.

[20:54] <+AJofUniversalHorizons> So far we have about 800+ original artworks, 4 Registered TMs, and a patent for changing genres. We hope to be here a long time!
[20:54] <+xyphoid> A patent on a rpg mechanic? Can you tell us more about that?
[20:56] <+AJofUniversalHorizons> Not in a few mins… also, it get to be law-speak gibberish very quickly.
[20:56] <~Dan> What (if any) game systems inspired you?
[20:57] <+AJofUniversalHorizons> IN essence, it’s a process patent for paper and online applications for transferring virtual entities from one genre to another.

AJ Schmidt isn’t telling tall tales. You can find the application for the patent at the US PTO.

Object? Worried? There’s instructions for a third-party comment here and the official form here.

In theory the patent office might block it. Bedroom Wall Press are sceptical this will happen. I am as well. There’s too much history against the USPTO for anyone to be hopeful.

Whereas gamers and publishers may have reason to be concerned I note there’s been some hostile comments to Universal Horizons. That’s hardly the way forward either. Writing in a Facebook update this morning the publisher said;

The patent issue: I will respond, but will continue to delete negative, derogatory, or flaming comments. This is our FB page. We cannot shut down anyone’s favorite game or redefining water as was earlier suggested. The sky is not falling, designers are free to create very dynamic RPGs and systems. Please read and understand:

We are a small company that invented a very specific process for shifting characters through genres, and we want to protect it using a patent. We consulted a lawyer who confirmed the same and encouraged a process patent. We want to protect the process we invented.

Many are commenting on the abstract that uses abstract language. The details of a patent are referred to within the cited definitions and the main book. This does not affect any previous publications or any other future publications that do not copy our process.

In a comment on the same thread, Universal Horizons indicated they won’t sue other publishers should they win the patent.

We witnessed the craziness of copyright infringement with Gygax and many smaller companies from larger game companies. We sought the consult of a copyright/ patent attorney. He informed us patent law protects better than copyright law. After his research, he informed us our method of character conversion was unique enough to the patented. Thus we sought the patent to protect our idea. Your insight is right-on. To be clear: we will not attack, sue, or investigate previous/ current game systems for infringement.

The desire to protect your ideas and avoid being ripped off is understandable. The question is whether the patent approach is the right way to go. What do you think?

**Janthkin**

Here's a link to the application.

Personally, I think their lawyer gave them some bad advice; Claim 1 looks to cover the old 2e/3e transition guide for D&D (zip file download).

Edit: reading through the prosecution history, there's some seriously sloppy drafting (which their attorney hasn't bothered to correct in the claims). Interesting reference used in the latest office action, too - a patent assigned to 3DO from way back in 1996 for transitioning characters between games (the example given is migrating a fast but lightly-armed spaceship to a quick but weak warrior).

**Uriels_Flame**

So they're trying to patent something there's probably already a free app for?

Seems trivial and silly but I imagine that is the way of the Patent Office.

**PhantomViper**

I thought that you couldn't patent game mechanics?

Isn't this "process" basically just the same thing?

**Janthkin**

PhantomViper wrote:
I thought that you couldn't patent game mechanics?

Incorrect. You can't protect game mechanics with copyright; patents are precisely the correct means to do so (assuming you actually have something novel & nonobvious to protect).

**PhantomViper**

Janthkin wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:
I thought that you couldn't patent game mechanics?
Incorrect. You can't protect game mechanics with copyright; patents are precisely the correct means to do so (assuming you actually have something novel & nonobvious to protect).

I stand corrected. Thankyouverymuch.

**Kilkrazy**

Why on earth bother to patent such a trivial application anyway?

**Janthkin**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Why on earth bother to patent such a trivial application anyway?

Some small companies see having a patent as a vanity issue, or want to be able to promote their product as "patented." Others use it as a step towards being acquired, or to boost valuations for external investors. Occasionally, one genuinely has a unique element that benefits from protection. But in a field as crowded with options as RPGs, I expect it's an attempt at highlighting what they believe makes them stand out from the rest.

**SilverMK2**

If they are not planning on enforcing the patent, why bother paying to take one out in the first place?

**Cyporiean**

Because it gets you to talk about them?

**Kilkrazy**

It's going to get them talked about as being a bunch of cocks whose any product should be spurned as a rabid dog out of sheer spite and disgust at their idiotic temerity.

I am off to convert some Traveller High Guard TL heavy cruisers into Napoleonic cavalry.

Once that is done I shall be converting them into WW2 medium tanks, and then into Call of Cthulhu cultist characters if I can find the time.

If only someone would make an app that would simplify it all!

**weeble1000**

This patent (application) is anticipated hard core.

Anyone who has ever explained how to convert a character from one game system to another has anticipated this prospective patent. It is not new, nor particularly useful.

If we want to nerd out, we can comb the world for extant publications describing how to convert a character from one game system to another one and send them to the USPTO.

Blam-O. Literally 5 seconds to type into a Google search bar. There's, like, tons of these too.

Super System to GURPS

Call of Cthulhu to GURPS

Forum thread entitled "Give me ANY character, I'll give you a GURPS conversion"

D&D 3.5 to GURPS

GURPS to FUDGE

GURPS to HERO System

FASA Star Trek to GURPS

These are all just GURPS related too. Then there's all of the D20 conversions, like the published D20 version of Dark Matter

Janthkin's got one. Anyone want to post some more anticipatory publications?

I find this patent pretty insulting to the TTG community and a flagrant misuse of my tax dollars. The 'inventors' have arguably also flagrantly flouted their duty of candor to the patent examiner.

Edit: Also, almost all of us are 'persons of ordinary skill in the art' of converting between game systems.

And for you 40K fans out there, how many of you have converted a Warhams stat block to Dark Heresy, Black Crusade, Deathwatch, Only War, etc.? If you did you've practiced this patent application! Congratulations!

**weeble1000**

I am growing concerned that nobody else cares about this.

**Easy E**

Perhaps they think they can make a good bit of side money as Patent Trolls?

**Kriswall**

My father-in-law works for the USPTO and the literal first thing they do most of the time is type the key ideas into google. Evidently, a high percentage of patent applications are denied in the first ten minutes of inspection using a basic google search. Also, Patent Inspectors work in certain knowledge areas... i.e., the tech guy only reviews tech patents, etc. They have a whole entertainment and gaming type section, so chances are the inspector reviewing this patent is well aware of the gaming world.

This seems like it would be pretty easy to overturn IF it gets approved and IF there is ever a court case.

**Kilkrazy**

It would save everyone a lot of time to get it denied before that.

**Saldiven**

weeble1000 wrote:
I am growing concerned that nobody else cares about this.

I have to admit that I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject to understand about what I'm supposed to be concerned....

**weeble1000**

Easy E wrote:
Perhaps they think they can make a good bit of side money as Patent Trolls?

Naa, they already screwed themselves out of that by saying publicly that the patent wouldn't be enforced. They've basically extended an implied license, whether they intended to or not.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:
It would save everyone a lot of time to get it denied before that.

Yes, indeed. Exactly this. This patent application should not be approved, at least not as I see it.

Further, the temerity to file something like this is pretty astounding. I don't care what a lawyer tells you, shoddy legal counsel does not override common sense.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think we should put together a third party pre-issuance submission to the USPTO. I would be happy to handle the submission process if people want to provide links to publications relevant to the patent application, unless someone else would prefer to handle a submission.

Here's the instructions for third-party comment:
http://www.uspto.gov/forms/3prsubmission_instructions.pdf

And the relevant form:
http://www.uspto.gov/forms/sb0429.pdf

**Sinful Hero**

Would Paizo's guide to converting D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder be of use?

**weeble1000**

Sinful Hero wrote:
Would Paizo's guide to converting D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder be of use?

Depends on the publication date, but that's great, thanks. It looks like 2009, so that's way prior to the patent application.

The patent claims essentially describe a correlative process of conversion. As I understand it, the claims would cover even a 1:1 correlation. So the fact that characteristics are the same across D&D3.5 and Pathfinder simply means that there's a 1:1 correlation there. Dexterity is correlated to Dexterity on a 1:1 basis, so 18 Dexterity would be "converted" into 18 Dexterity.

Similarly, the Piazo D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion document describes changes to racial ability scores.

Races have seen a few changes from their 3.5 counterparts.
Most of the races now receive two +2 bonuses to their
ability scores and one –2 penalty. In addition, half-elves,
half-orcs, and humans now all receive a single +2 bonus to
an ability score of their choice (instead of their 3.5 bonuses
and penalties). Table C–1 summarizes all of the changes to
the racial ability scores and gives the page number for each
race. Note that these changes are in addition to the race’s
existing ability score modifiers, which have remained
unchanged. You should also check your character’s existing
racial abilities against those granted by the Pathfinder
RPG and make the appropriate changes.

Table C–1: Racial Ability Score
Modifications
Race New Modifiers
Dwarf (page 21) +2 Wisdom
Elf (page 22) +2 Intelligence
Gnome (page 23) +2 Charisma
Half-elf (page 24) +2 to one score
Half-orc (page 25) +2 to one score*
Halfling (page 26) +2 Charisma
Human (page 27) +2 to one score

**Sean_OBrien**

Strangely enough - I would point back to Wizards of the Coast.

As some might recall, the issue they got into with Palladium back before they had MtG was the creation of a universal system within "Primal Order" that allowed conversion between different game systems (and conversely for one skilled in the art from that system back into any of the other systems).

Before that though, the Judges Guild used to publish regular cross system supplements with charts and tables for converting from one system to the next (would have been in the late 1970s to early 1980s - prior to TSR getting on their infringement high horse).

ICE did as well with Role Aids - supplements to be used with any game system (though their primary market was the D&D crowd - it allowed you to try out new rules without having to start over from scratch).

Reading this - there would also be corollaries between the Everquest d20 game and the Diablo d20 game. In particular the way that things are converted from one medium to the next and certain aspects are lost due to not having a direct translation.

There is a bit of bitter irony within all this mess. Kevin Siembieda of Palladium was a primary writer for Judges Guild. Palladium sued WotC. WotC has since sued several companies for arguably the same issues they were sued for... It is not all just fun and games.

In any case, while I have the utmost confidence in the patent process - I wouldn't be surprised if this skated through. There is enough techno babble in there regarding computers - that a lot of examiners hit it with their rubber stamp (knowing several examiners who have difficulty remembering how to attach files to email...they are out of their depth in many respects).

**Janthkin**

The application is already on its third office action, and is citing some good art, which has forced some claim amendments. It's looking pretty good there.