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I've often wondered why sergeants, captains etc from space marines armies completely lose all ability to use any decent ranged weapon.

Is there any specific reason anyone knows of as to why this is the case?

I mean i'd like to equip them with special weapons and the like but it's just not an option.

Because they should be spending their time commanding, and not necessarily putting fire into the bad guys.

And they do have access to some of the top end gear. Combi weapons, all sorts of CC toys, and the like. Just not lascannons.

I think it's because it would encourage people to use officers as extra special weapon carriers rather than heroes. Lorewise... because the Codex Astartes forbids it? I could see a Captain taking a Meltagun for personal defense and/or to assist in the assault.

Because an NCO or Officer's job is to command, not stand on the firing line with the grunts.

Because it's more old fashioned to go with pistol and blade, like old fashioned British officers in the musket era.

It is like in the real military: do you give the Sgt a heavy weapon or grenade launcher?

No, some of these things take concentration to use well and he is to have his mind on the larger picture while planting his boot on the appropriate soldier.

Plus being the guy with the close combat weapons and eviscerating anything that comes up close reminds his fellow troopers what he can do as they spend time together "up close".

A veteran sergeant is going to a top target marine who's no more resilient than the other marines in his squad. So it's better to equip him with a weapon with a weapon that makes him dangerous without putting the entire enemy force out for his arse. Veteran sergeants are also better in CC than regular marines, so they can get more out being equipped with a melee weapon than others.

 Nevelon wrote:
Because they should be spending their time commanding, and not necessarily putting fire into the bad guys.

Pretty much this. A special weapon carrier is devoting 100% of their attention to maximizing the use of their gun. The squad's mission is usually going to revolve around proper use of that weapon, so that person needs complete focus on their firing drill. The commander is maintaining situational awareness and thinking about how to best maneuver the squad to maximize usefulness and minimize risk. With an automatic weapon like a boltgun, most rounds fired will be suppression rather than aimed kill shots, and suppressive fire can easily be maintained while distracted by planning.

Maybe they promote all the poor shots.

Or maybe marines get promoted to the point of incompetence just like us.

Maybe they should be able to give orders if they're not focusing on specialized weaponry.

I've always found it amusing the Guard are so powerful because they tell their men what to do. What a novel concept! The other races must just stumble around aimlessly.

I reckon cos A) they're supposed to inspire confidence by being the first to charge into combat, B) the close combat weapons are a badge of rank and C) in the cases of guard and orks, the leader needs to have short ranged weapons with which to dispense discipline on the other ranks.

pax_imperialis wrote:
I reckon cos A) they're supposed to inspire confidence by being the first to charge into combat, B) the close combat weapons are a badge of rank and C) in the cases of guard and orks, the leader needs to have short ranged weapons with which to dispense discipline on the other ranks.

Pretty much this.

Space Marines are based on various warrior-noble archetypes, most notably the heraldric knights of various European historical periods. In keeping with this perception (if not necessarily the historical reality) the Space Marine commanders are expected to lead from the front, to be 'first through the breach,' so to speak. Not only are they supposed to be rallying and inspiring their men, but with their bold colors, highly visible strategies, and daring actions, they provide inspiration to ALL forces of the Imperium on the battlefield. The Space Marines aren't just warriors--they're icons. And a commander huddling behind a wall, potting away with a missile launcher or meltagun, isn't nearly as heroism-inspiring as a commander going toe-to-toe with his enemy with blade and pistol.

From a modern military perspective, no, it makes no sense. But from the space-fantasy perspective, it's completely logical.

I'd also like to know how it is possible that the sergeants forget their ability to field ANY wargear, when they start wearing a Terminator armour. That's asinine, and doesn't even make any sense.
It wouldn't even be a game-breaking change to give him a chance to take items from Terminator Weapons list, or is it still so much to ask?

Heck, the younger tactical sergeant has MUCH MORE options to choose from... even though he doesn't get special weapons, but he's meant to lead and give orders anyway, instead of taking a melta and go crazy.
What did the centuries older and grumpier terminator sergeant get again? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
...Oh yeah, counting out the Assault Terminators! There he shines, eh? A chance to switch the lightning claws with a TH/SS-combo. *And there was much sarcastic rejoicing*

Gee-dubs, why are you kicking my terminators in the nads?

gamewise: Having your lascannon on a character that has LoS! is overpowered.

Don't get bogged down in "but I could easily..." or "in real life you could...."
If G'dub did more of this type of balancing and actual thinking about where something is too strong or too weak, the balance of the game might not have been the catastrophe it is today.

Theres no plausible reason why they don't have at least a bolter or auxiliary grenade launcher.

Heresy era marines carried the same weapons as their squads or they could upgrade into something better/different.

In the army my e-6 squad leader in the infantry had a 203 grenade launcher on his M16 as did everyone else that wasn't carrying a SAW.

We also had basic squad commands in Klingon but that's a different story.

Col. Dash wrote:
Theres no plausible reason why they don't have at least a bolter or auxiliary grenade launcher.

Heresy era marines carried the same weapons as their squads or they could upgrade into something better/different.

In the army my e-6 squad leader in the infantry had a 203 grenade launcher on his M16 as did everyone else that wasn't carrying a SAW.

We also had basic squad commands in Klingon but that's a different story.

Who exactly are you talking about? I know tactical squad sergeants start with the exact same gear as their battle-brethren, and have the OPTION to roll with a chainsword, or any number of other upgraded weapons.

Ok , but if all that is true , then why do the mostly knightly of all space marines captines and grand masters ,those of the grey knights use heavy weapons , if their roots happen to be found in the grey knights version of devastator squad. And we can't say that they somehow don't do up front combat as the fluff for both says that they do that a lot.

Makumba wrote:
Ok , but if all that is true , then why do the mostly knightly of all space marines captines and grand masters ,those of the grey knights use heavy weapons , if their roots happen to be found in the grey knights version of devastator squad. And we can't say that they somehow don't do up front combat as the fluff for both says that they do that a lot.

Because Grand Masters pay a ridiculous premium for their stats, among others their frightening Ballistic Skill, and are being allowed (at prodigious points rates! A psycannon costs 75 points) to actually use those statistics.
It's a game. It's a sci-fi game at that. Set in a world where 10 people in huge armour(+ crew) can fit in a vehicle no larger than a Fiat Punto. A world where Demons destroy worlds, insects eat demons and blue fishmen are the paragon of equality.
Vehicles move at the same pace as people on foot.
Super advanced bolter weapons reach no further than the equivalent of 24 meters if you start comparing sizes to real life sizes.
Everyone have such fast reflexes that 5 times out of 6 they can dive the bullet of a sniper heading for their very important leader. Their reflexes dull a bit if he's not that important. They still don't have good enough reflexes to dodge said bullets.
Artificially enhanced men, larger than anything you've seen with more muscle than any strongman living today, inside a suit that enhances his already bewildering strength finds an eviscerator so heavy and unmanagable to wield that he is at a disadvantage in any given fight. Crazy but thoroughly unenhanced women clad in nothing but rags wield the same weapons with no more than the same discomfort.
Tanks can manage to fire several advanced weapon systems at the same time, but their smoke launchers are so advanced that they are forced to stop all other activity to focus on triggering them.

I'm going to stop there, but with a game like this why are you arguing a link to reality?