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So we had a 7th ed tournament at my FLGS this saturday. To see what the game was really like now, they put zero restrictions in. Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld). I had just finished up my stompa model, and since I thought I might not ever get a chance to use it due to the stigma of lords of war in my area, I decided to enter. I went with a stompa, big mek with kff, 5 burnas with 3 meks, and grot riggers. The rest of my army was ghazkull, 4 meganobs all in a battlewagon with deff rollas. 20 slugga choppa boyz with nob, bosspole, and pk in a battlewagon with deffrolla. 12 shoota boyz with nob, pk, bosspole in a trukk, and 9 lootas for a 2k tourney. This was still using the old dex since the new one only came out that day.

So I arrive at 10, waiting to start at 10:30. A total of 6 people are here for it (normal tourneys with restrictions average 12 to 18ish. I was curious, and since all our lists had to be turned in the wednesday before and nobody could last minute change them, people were discussing their armies. What I found people had brought I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy.

There was an army with a lord of skulls, malekhor or whatever the dataslate demon princes name is, fatewaver, and another flying demon prince, all basically flying buffbots with one goal, give the lord of skulls invisibility. Oh and a 3 base unit of nurglings. Next was a baneblade alternative, the one with the str 10 super huge cannon, and demolisher. He was joined by....malekhor, a citan shard, and a flying demon prince. The next army was a citan shard....joined by a citan shard. The next army was a citan shard....joined by a citan shard. No that was not an accident. 2 guys rode together to the tournament to make a point aparently. And that point was douchey armies are no fun (and boy were they right) The last army was more like mine, a proper space wolf army, with an imperial knight to try it out. He wasent expecting this either.

Anyway reminding myself I am here to have fun with my new stompa I paid my fee and we started playing. I was faced up against the lord of skulls. Now the guy is a regular, and by no means a douche. BUT he will not settle for just a basic army. All of his armies are geared for maximum advantage every time. 2+ screamerstar lists. Grey knights with demon allies for 25 summoning dice a turn. (back when they were feared) dark angels ravenwing with more dakka than 10000 points of orks could put out. Not sure why he finds that kind of list fun. There is no challenge in it and it dosent improve your skills to win crushing victories all the time. But I digress.

So the game starts out with the stompa and the lord running straight at each other Thinking the orks were finally gonna have the scrap of their lives I committed ghaz and the nobz into it. Well as I found out, the lord of skulls counts as a demon, and thus invisibility works wonders on him. You can imagine even with 4 attacks from the stompa, 7 from ghaz, and 16 from the nobz, I struck home about 5 times total. 2 of which did anything, and one of which was ignored by 5+ invun. I managed aproximatley zero kills, and was tabled soon after, with the flyers basically just buffing with iron arm on themselves and invis. And my 2 deny dice I got a turn did didly. To my left, the 2 citan crushed the other 2 citan foolish enough to go second. The other match was much better, with the knight dying to the citan, only to explode and take the citans last wound with him, making HIM explode and doling about half the damage to the baneblade. It was a tough fight but I think basically the wolf player had a rhino left and some bloodclaws and longfangs wayyy on the other side about 50 inches away. Broke for lunch. Came back for round 2.

Now it was my turn to fight da baneblade. Well do to being hugenourmous, I never got to move more than 6 inches a turn, while the baneblade spent the game backing up 6 inches a turn. Him and the citan pretty much shot it to death by turn 3. I made all of 2 hull repairs. BUT my supa gattla NEVER ran out of boolits. I killed melchior and the other DP with the lootas. Unfortunatley for him, it was objective based, and I beat him soundly by playing the mission. He seemed upset since he had a baneblade with 1 HP missing, and an untouched citan at the end, and I had ghaz (who had got blown out of his battlewagon turn one by hugeblast the deadly from the baneblade scattering off the stompa onto him, and 6 whole boyz left ( the new mob rule would have had them all dead by now). Both other games, the citan tabled their opponents by turn 2. The lord of skulls killed turn one by combined fire before the demons could even cast anything, then slowly picked off by 6d6 str 8 shots from each of them.

Game 3 was played, and I found myself up against 2 citan. Well thru sheer luck, I managed to with my stompa and lootas get his warlord down about 3 hp out of 6. At which point Im pretty sure he went over to ask the judge to check my dice complaining of cheating, the judge waved him off. Turn 1 citan. Goodbye stompa. 12 hull points, and 5+ cover mean jack when you take 12d6 str 8 hits, and 4 blast templates, 2 of which were D, one of which did 7 hull points by itself. Ghaz was behind it and next turn unloaded to charge his warlord. Here is where I screwed up big time. I forgot to waagh, and thus ghaz dident have his 2+ invun. Also his warlord trait gave him feel no pain, which I ALSO forgot to use. Anyway after the citan attacked a challenged ghaz, managing to do 3 wounds, I fired back....bringing him to a heartbreaking 1 hp left after making 6 feel no pain rolls that round. The stomp afterwards left 3 meganobz and ghaz and a buddy died. Next turn the other citan shot ghaz battlewagon dead, and put some hurt on the trukk with the shootaboyz, who were trying to sneak around the other side to his objective, of which we each had one. So they were now walking, and had 24 inches or so to get there. Not good. The nobz do 2 wounds, which he saves, and they all die due to no invun. Well I figure this is my last chance, the lootas open up on the lord and only manage 18 shots, 6 of which hit, and one wound due to toughness 9. He saves easily. Next turn everything dies but 4 shoota boyz hiding behind terrain they cant see around. Turn after that they died due to being insignificant specs of dust to citan.

Tourney ends. Citan take home 40 bucks in store credit. I win best painted, someone else wins most fun opponent (ironically the other citan player who I did not even get to have 2 words with) Everyone pretty much disperses.

My innitial thoughts. Lords of war. Not as bad as I thought they would be...assuming one that is. Though combos like unresistable invis on a lord of skulls every turn, with failures being overturned by fateweaver, are probably some of the most broken junk ever. Even my auto hit deff rollas only managed 2 HP (and we dont even have THAT in the new codex). But I will absolutley never play a tournament, or "for fun" game with unbound rules again ever. Ever. I dont care how nice the person is, or how fluffy their list. It is no fun, makes no sense, and is broken as crap. Though the lord of skulls list with nurglings was sadly battleforged, so even that cannot escape super cheeze.

I was pretty suprised how upset people with just plain dumb lists can get. Complaining loudly that something is either BS or plain cheating because ONE of your models ALMOST died ALL TOURNAMENT, is just as petty as can be.

Also I hope to god I never do a tournament again where I get in 3 games, and manage to kill all of 2 models TOTAL. That is just a shot to the pride-junk there.

Congrats on best painted!

 rryannn wrote:
Congrats on best painted!

Thanks, althought since nobody elses army but one guys was painted....at all...eh Ill take it I guess heh.

 Orock wrote:
To see what the game was really like now, they put zero restrictions in. Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld).

Sorry, but I just have to laugh at this. "Take everything you want and let's see what the game is like, except don't take this one thing that I don't like". That kind of delusional opposition to FW is just impressive.

All of his armies are geared for maximum advantage every time. 2+ screamerstar lists. Grey knights with demon allies for 25 summoning dice a turn. (back when they were feared) dark angels ravenwing with more dakka than 10000 points of orks could put out. Not sure why he finds that kind of list fun. There is no challenge in it and it dosent improve your skills to win crushing victories all the time.

This is pretty ironic, coming from someone who brought a list designed around exploiting the reluctance of the tournament community to adopt the "little things don't work on big things" rule every Apocalypse group knows you need to have. Sure, invisible superheavies are probably better cheese than repairing all your HP every turn, but it's still a list that shouldn't exist.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Orock wrote:
To see what the game was really like now, they put zero restrictions in. Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld).

Sorry, but I just have to laugh at this. "Take everything you want and let's see what the game is like, except don't take this one thing that I don't like". That kind of delusional opposition to FW is just impressive.

All of his armies are geared for maximum advantage every time. 2+ screamerstar lists. Grey knights with demon allies for 25 summoning dice a turn. (back when they were feared) dark angels ravenwing with more dakka than 10000 points of orks could put out. Not sure why he finds that kind of list fun. There is no challenge in it and it dosent improve your skills to win crushing victories all the time.

This is pretty ironic, coming from someone who brought a list designed around exploiting the reluctance of the tournament community to adopt the "little things don't work on big things" rule every Apocalypse group knows you need to have. Sure, invisible superheavies are probably better cheese than repairing all your HP every turn, but it's still a list that shouldn't exist.

First, forgeworld isn't accepted as the norm everywhere. I know it drives you crazy, but your going to have to accept that fact, just like killers kill babies, and some evil men have a lot of power in this world.

Second. it was to try out the stompa, and I could have easily set it up to repair 8 or 9 HP a turn, with rerolls from grot oilers. None of that matters because its a waste, since it CAN die in one turn, then all the repairing in the world dosent matter. I have never played apocalypse because I don't generally have 15 hours to devote to one game. I already knew with no restrictions and some of the cheese heads in my area, it was going to get stupid. I don't have to stoop to their level to try out something new and have fun.

Third. Seriously, not everyone cares about forgeworld.

What is the little things don't work on big things rule?

 Orock wrote:
First, forgeworld isn't accepted as the norm everywhere. I know it drives you crazy, but your going to have to accept that fact, just like killers kill babies, and some evil men have a lot of power in this world.

I accept that it happens. I don't have to accept that it's anything other than laughable stupidity in an event that allows everything else, including every broken "40k is now Apocalypse" thing you can come up with.

Second. it was to try out the stompa, and I could have easily set it up to repair 8 or 9 HP a turn, with rerolls from grot oilers. None of that matters because its a waste, since it CAN die in one turn, then all the repairing in the world dosent matter. I have never played apocalypse because I don't generally have 15 hours to devote to one game. I already knew with no restrictions and some of the cheese heads in my area, it was going to get stupid. I don't have to stoop to their level to try out something new and have fun.

That's nice. You're still exploiting a broken rule. Which is fine, and what you have to do if you want to win a tournament like this, but it's pretty hypocritical when you complain about someone else using abusive lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
What is the little things don't work on big things rule?

Essentially, any special ability that doesn't explicitly apply to superheavies or gargantuan creatures doesn't work on them. So, for example, meks/techpriests/etc can't use their "repair a HP on any vehicle" ability to repair HP on a superheavy, psychic buffs can't be applied to a gargantuan creature, etc. Same with negative abilities, no taking control of a titan and gunning down half an army, etc. This is required because anyone trying to win an Apocalypse game very quickly realizes that abilities designed to be reasonable when buffing/penalizing a ~100-200 point unit become completely broken when applied to a 500-1000+ point unit. You get stuff like Thunderhawks that can automatically repair all of their HP in a single turn, every titan being accompanied by a cheap buff unit to make their guns twin-linked, invisible 1000-point gargantuan creatures that become effectively unkillable, etc. Even units like the Stompa that are otherwise reasonably balanced can become game-breaking if you allow normal-scale buffs to apply to them.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Orock wrote:
First, forgeworld isn't accepted as the norm everywhere. I know it drives you crazy, but your going to have to accept that fact, just like killers kill babies, and some evil men have a lot of power in this world.

I accept that it happens. I don't have to accept that it's anything other than laughable stupidity in an event that allows everything else, including every broken "40k is now Apocalypse" thing you can come up with.

Second. it was to try out the stompa, and I could have easily set it up to repair 8 or 9 HP a turn, with rerolls from grot oilers. None of that matters because its a waste, since it CAN die in one turn, then all the repairing in the world dosent matter. I have never played apocalypse because I don't generally have 15 hours to devote to one game. I already knew with no restrictions and some of the cheese heads in my area, it was going to get stupid. I don't have to stoop to their level to try out something new and have fun.

That's nice. You're still exploiting a broken rule. Which is fine, and what you have to do if you want to win a tournament like this, but it's pretty hypocritical when you complain about someone else using abusive lists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
What is the little things don't work on big things rule?

Broken is when someone uses a gun in a knife fight at 50 paces. This was more like a gun at a gun fight, only some people brought tactical nukes.

Essentially, any special ability that doesn't explicitly apply to superheavies or gargantuan creatures doesn't work on them. So, for example, meks/techpriests/etc can't use their "repair a HP on any vehicle" ability to repair HP on a superheavy, psychic buffs can't be applied to a gargantuan creature, etc. Same with negative abilities, no taking control of a titan and gunning down half an army, etc. This is required because anyone trying to win an Apocalypse game very quickly realizes that abilities designed to be reasonable when buffing/penalizing a ~100-200 point unit become completely broken when applied to a 500-1000+ point unit. You get stuff like Thunderhawks that can automatically repair all of their HP in a single turn, every titan being accompanied by a cheap buff unit to make their guns twin-linked, invisible 1000-point gargantuan creatures that become effectively unkillable, etc. Even units like the Stompa that are otherwise reasonably balanced can become game-breaking if you allow normal-scale buffs to apply to them.

There was a local LoW allowed tournament today, out of the normal expected 12-14 players, they got 4. Abysmal, unprecedented, unacceptable. I chose not to go for that reason.

Just because GW says it's legal, that doesn't mean most players want to see Super Heavies and Gargantuan Creatures in their tournaments. If the balance issues weren't bad enough...

Get Apocalypse out of my 40k! If the community makes it's desires as a whole known, hopefully it won't destroy tournaments attendance before things get straightened out.

That being said...

BAO has gone with limited LoW, it's a reasonable solution, but IMO arbitrary and piecemeal banning is not the solution. Factions don't have equal access to Super Heavies or Gargantuan Creatures, those that exist are widely varying in balance, etc. They aren't ready for widely acceptable use yet.

This type of report is excellent for us other TOs. Also, chuckles @ "you're not playing the full game, stupidly, if fw banned" + "obviously you have to house rule big stuff buffing" in the same breath. Nobody wants to play the unfettered game, including those who think they are advocating playing the unfettered game, lol.

MVBrandt wrote:
Also, chuckles @ "you're not playing the full game, stupidly, if fw banned" + "obviously you have to house rule big stuff buffing" in the same breath. Nobody wants to play the unfettered game, including those who think they are advocating playing the unfettered game, lol.

Also, chuckles @ you not reading what I said. OP claimed the tournament "put zero restrictions in" in the same sentence that they talk about banning FW. That's not "zero restrictions", that's "I'm going to pretend that my personal set of restrictions are 'how it is meant to be played'". I have never said that absolutely everything GW has ever printed should be legal without any restrictions, and have clearly and consistently advocated making carefully targeted changes to specific problems. There is no inconsistency between mocking an event for claiming to be "the whole game" while banning stuff the TO doesn't like, and advocating a solution to a specific problem.

Oh well, I think it'd be much different if FW was widely spread and had all the rules in army-themed books similar to Codexes rather than have the 'expansion' spread over several books.

Running a tournament with TOs not at least partially knowing the rules is a terrible idea and expecting TOs to know all the IA books and whatever they bring is stupid, because there's rarely time to go through the books to make some judgement during a tournament. It's like someone signing up with Tyrant's Legion army list to a tournament where literally noone else has any idea what the hell is that.

It must have become a real problem for a Tournament Team to have access to all of the rules nowadays with the number of Forge World books at £40 each, codexes being £30, other rules being in digital format only, and so on.

Quite apart from the question of balance, how can the judges know the game any more?

Therefore it makes a lot of sense to cut loads of stuff out for tournaments, and stick with a core set of rules that everyone can get access to and understand.

Ok so after reading there are two things I want to ask:

A) No FW.. So two C'tan shards are ok but a Contemptor or a Mega Dredd is crossing the line?

B) Those two guys with the C'tan shards... What point were they trying to make? if that's their attitude I would just bar them from future tourneys tbh, the games about having fun (even in tourneys) not making abusive lists just to spite a TO's ruling..

maybe they were having fun, i have lots of proving a point. especially when I'm told my point is wrong, because someone else just doesn't like it.

i personally enjoy all games of 40k, be they super combos lists type, or the ones with kiddie gloves and balancing restrictions. they both have their place, and both provide fun.

i have to say that my favorite games are the ones with competitive restrictions, against another player that's min/maxed their list for the most out of their codex. but i enjoy all 40k.

It also seems painlessly easy to play a tournament where you only have to shove around 2 models.

Just as a lot of people hopped on the Jet/Screamer/Etc. star train in 6th edition (thank God they suck now) because it's easier to move a smaller # of models, people will do the same with any Lords of War they think give them a good chance to win and simultaneously make their army easier to play with.

There are still solid Tyranid builds involving hundreds of models, and I still shudder in horror at my successful run in the 2012 BFS GT with a Tervigon intensive, starting model intensive army. My feet and back haven't been the same since! :p

The idea that a tournament will allow everything except FW is so mind bogglingly silly that it beggars belief.

 Klerych wrote:
Running a tournament with TOs not at least partially knowing the rules is a terrible idea and expecting TOs to know all the IA books and whatever they bring is stupid, because there's rarely time to go through the books to make some judgement during a tournament. It's like someone signing up with Tyrant's Legion army list to a tournament where literally noone else has any idea what the hell is that.

False dilemma. Players bring the rules they're using, and the problem goes away.

MVBrandt wrote:
It also seems painlessly easy to play a tournament where you only have to shove around 2 models.

Just as a lot of people hopped on the Jet/Screamer/Etc. star train in 6th edition (thank God they suck now) because it's easier to move a smaller # of models, people will do the same with any Lords of War they think give them a good chance to win and simultaneously make their army easier to play with.

There are still solid Tyranid builds involving hundreds of models, and I still shudder in horror at my successful run in the 2012 BFS GT with a Tervigon intensive, starting model intensive army. My feet and back haven't been the same since! :p

I just painted 150 gaunts (for our Adepticon team) that seem rather useless at the moment. If you'd be willing to share such a current list (maybe via PM) I'd be forever grateful

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The idea that a tournament will allow everything except FW is so mind bogglingly silly that it beggars belief.

 Klerych wrote:
Running a tournament with TOs not at least partially knowing the rules is a terrible idea and expecting TOs to know all the IA books and whatever they bring is stupid, because there's rarely time to go through the books to make some judgement during a tournament. It's like someone signing up with Tyrant's Legion army list to a tournament where literally noone else has any idea what the hell is that.

False dilemma. Players bring the rules they're using, and the problem goes away.

It is not false at all. The "If players bring the rules" defense would work for me if.

1.) GW always wrote clear rules. But they don't so as a TO one might need to make a ruling about a particular unit, and so if you don't know what it does that is difficult.
2.) Events were not timed. If your opponent needs to spend 10 min reading all your armies rules it becomes a problem.

I'm not saying everyone should ban FW. But a TO allowing it needs to be familair to some extent with the books. (For instance, the TO needs to know if the rules being used for a unit are the most up to date rules for that unit.)

 happygolucky wrote:
Ok so after reading there are two things I want to ask:

A) No FW.. So two C'tan shards are ok but a Contemptor or a Mega Dredd is crossing the line?

B) Those two guys with the C'tan shards... What point were they trying to make? if that's their attitude I would just bar them from future tourneys tbh, the games about having fun (even in tourneys) not making abusive lists just to spite a TO's ruling..

If it is the two i'm thinking of, and it sounds it, they are utter WAACholes who love the most broken lists and will argue the most absurd interpretations of the rules.

But they like to pretend they are fonging you for your own good. To improve your game, or that this or that aspect of the game is OP to the TO

If you are gaming where i think you are, Orock, i'll be at the next one, and bringing some good old-fashioned Orky action for you to enjoy

 Peregrine wrote:

 Orock wrote:
To see what the game was really like now, they put zero restrictions in. Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld).

Sorry, but I just have to laugh at this. "Take everything you want and let's see what the game is like, except don't take this one thing that I don't like". That kind of delusional opposition to FW is just impressive.

Firstly, being generally insulting to people doesn't help your point.

Secondly, GW doesn't let FLGS sell Forgeworld. The event was held at a FLGS, who's goal is (ultimately) to sell stuff. If you think it's "delusional" for a store to ban models it simply cannot sell from it's own tournaments... well, never start your own business then. You can certainly advocate for FW acceptance, but be understanding, and don't be abrasive, and you'll find more people agreeing with you.

We just ran a tournament 1500 pts No Unbound but everything else was up for grabs (including forgeworld / IA). I thought at 1500 pts what could people bring... It was a big turnout 24 people. There were plenty without LOW however there was a Brass Scorpion, a Knight titan, a list with 3 knight titans, and a list with a Warhound chaos titan. I will say that with this edition and the nerf to D weapons it was not terrible, but we did get enough gripes that we made a restricted LOW list. I do think it affects the meta, but honestly SO WHAT. The LOW are here to stay folks, best get used to them. We are still allowing Stompas in our tournies... I have always been one to play what is available and adapt. I do not think LOW are that terrible... lol now being a bit of a hypocrite I will say that the Ctan Transcendent is pretty broken... He was one of the first things that was off the list. I think he was poorly written as he is a mega bad ass and extremely hard to kill.

 Ascalam wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
Ok so after reading there are two things I want to ask:

A) No FW.. So two C'tan shards are ok but a Contemptor or a Mega Dredd is crossing the line?

B) Those two guys with the C'tan shards... What point were they trying to make? if that's their attitude I would just bar them from future tourneys tbh, the games about having fun (even in tourneys) not making abusive lists just to spite a TO's ruling..

If it is the two i'm thinking of, and it sounds it, they are utter WAACholes who love the most broken lists and will argue the most absurd interpretations of the rules.

But they like to pretend they are fonging you for your own good. To improve your game, or that this or that aspect of the game is OP to the TO

If you are gaming where i think you are, Orock, i'll be at the next one, and bringing some good old-fashioned Orky action for you to enjoy

yeah salem Oregon. One guy said part of his point to make was that with no restrictions the game gets stupid. HOWEVER half a second later he added "and If im going to pay to enter a tournament, Im going to play the most powerful list. Im not throwing my money away on a balanced list with no chance". So his noble intentions did not seem so sincere.

As for the forgeworld thing. I am in agreement for one reason. How do you keep up to date on their rules? Now I read the rules for the new codex when they are released generally. If someone was cherry picking their old rules, say playing new orks with old mob size rules, I would know and be able to call them out. But whats to stop someone from bringing a contemptor mortis dread and using the OLDER, more beneficial rules as opposed to the new rules. How are we to know his aren't the most up to date, they are spread out in like 4 different books, and if you don't follow it religiously you or maybe anyone else there might not know, maybe the new rules nerfed it for a very good reason, too good points to power ratio? How would we know the Rvanna riptide was anything more than its famous experimental rules with up to 6 or 8 str 8 pie plates on a large vehicles? Sure its changed now, but I found out thru sheer luck.

Also some things in forgeworld are just straight up better. My stompa was 770 base, but in forgeworld I could get one with a leader for 400? Why does it deserve a 370 point discount? Even if you include the cost of the leader, I would have just left my big mek with KFF at home, so that's a wash. Some options totally remove an armys specific designed weaknesses. Sure you can do that with allies and detatchments, but for the most part you dident even come across taudar, or dark elder/elder, or tau with teleporting grav cent stars. So when you don't commonly come across cheese that needs to be countered on a weekly basis, its easier to say "look forgeworld adds some fun stuff, but also some abusive stuff. For simplicity's sake, lets just leave It alone in official events"

yup, its actually a fairly short list of things that "need" to go for "competitive" 40k tournaments,

a few of the more OP LOW's, but most are just fine.

no unbound, and limit to 2 detachments or 1 + ally (self ally allowed)

Accept LoW, accept Unbound, accept dataslates, accept formations... Reject forgeworld.


Utterly ridiculous. I cannot be the only one to be looking over the releases from the two sister companies and see better thought out and balanced rules coming from FW than her big sis.

I know the shop, it's usually got very cool people and the guys that ran events when I was there were awesome.

The no-FW thing (from what I remember, haven't lived there in over 4 years) was basically because the store owner didn't sell FW stuff as opposed to any perceived balance issues.

We ran a 1500 point no holds barred (including FW - can't remember if FW army lists were allowed, but no one asked iirc).

The ringer army had a Stompa and one person brought a Warhound. The Warhound army won, but he had some close games and didn't hit a bad match up. There was an Unbound list with Bel'Akor, 4 or 5 Maulerfiends, some Oblits and some Spawn (and a Chaos Lord). Also had a 4 Knight list. Not sure what else was brought. Tons of fun and the Warhound couldn't been matched up against the Necron players or the Stompa or it would've popped.

Tons of fun. Would play again.

It's interesting that this thread became largely "Why wasn't Forgeworld allowed?" in the comments... I thought the reaction would've been "More of those things should be disallowed".

I'm open to seeing more FW, but that just seems unrelated- honestly the idea of this event holds no interest for me at all. Unrestricted 40k is silly now. Restrictions are (imo) needed... and note I say that while being very open to seeing some Forgeworld.

 RiTides wrote:
It's interesting that this thread became largely "Why wasn't Forgeworld allowed?" in the comments... I thought the reaction would've been "More of those things should be disallowed".

I'm open to seeing more FW, but that just seems unrelated- honestly the idea of this event holds no interest for me at all. Unrestricted 40k is silly now. Restrictions are (imo) needed... and note I say that while being very open to seeing some Forgeworld.

I would agree. FW/no-FW aside, This game simply does not function properly if there is no restraint, either from the players themselves or imposed by event restrictions, and it's clear that many players feel 40k has effectively given them permission to go "full ham". My first "unbound" experience for example was declining to play against a 9 Canoptek Spyder 500pt army

RiTides wrote:It's interesting that this thread became largely "Why wasn't Forgeworld allowed?" in the comments... I thought the reaction would've been "More of those things should be disallowed".

I'm open to seeing more FW, but that just seems unrelated- honestly the idea of this event holds no interest for me at all. Unrestricted 40k is silly now. Restrictions are (imo) needed... and note I say that while being very open to seeing some Forgeworld.

Why do we need restrictions?
Seriously - what part of the current game is "bad" if it's included? Have you even played against most of the lists that are bandied about?

Vaktathi wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
It's interesting that this thread became largely "Why wasn't Forgeworld allowed?" in the comments... I thought the reaction would've been "More of those things should be disallowed".

I'm open to seeing more FW, but that just seems unrelated- honestly the idea of this event holds no interest for me at all. Unrestricted 40k is silly now. Restrictions are (imo) needed... and note I say that while being very open to seeing some Forgeworld.

I would agree. FW/no-FW aside, This game simply does not function properly if there is no restraint, either from the players themselves or imposed by event restrictions, and it's clear that many players feel 40k has effectively given them permission to go "full ham". My first "unbound" experience for example was declining to play against a 9 Canoptek Spyder 500pt army

Why not play against that list? It's not particularly strong, or mobile... it just is difficult to kill at 500 points. And it's not even that difficult - they're just as hard to kill as Carnifexes which die to Tac Squads often enough.