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30 pinks+herald 325pts perhaps more if you count a DP to reroll 1's to hit, 5 primaris 100... Footprint is less big than you believe, you need to respect new choerency rule, they hold 1 objective usually.
Demons lists based on infantry are made obsolete by things like agressors and new secondary "ahbor the witch" dont help at all things like blobs of pinks+herald (8 potential vp for your opponent).
pray they are not on cover.
Last but not least usually they play impulsors so good luck wipe away squads, unless you are playing against a monkey.
Anyway until a new codex is released demons aren't in good spot.
We have national trials in november and we are testing some solutions, demons now are good or like allies or in team competitions where you know what you can face with a specific list, like trials, pure demons list have hard times in lot of matchups, maybe you can still play nurgle battalion spamming nurglins and Pb's plus a TZ demons patrol, with a full equipped LOC 28-30 pink changecaster and maybe some flamers or screamers. That might work if you face lists tailored for actual marine/veichles meta, they could have not enough firepower to wipe all those bodies.

I agree daemons are in a very tough spot, especially mono armies.

I do think there is a niche competitive build of 6 greater daemons with nurglings and a few troops sprinkled in. It negates most of the current builds like harlies and custodes and SMs don't like it's speed and high damage.

 p5freak wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Pinks aren't the worst unit to play either and brims are still cheap enough to allow you to fill a battalion for more HQ slots.

What ? Brims are cheap enough ? Did you miss the increase to 5 pts. ? A chaos cultist is 6 and a guardsman is 5. Cultists are five times better, guardsmen are ten times better. I would rather run 30 pinks than 30 brims. Pinks are well worth the additional 3 pts.

i meant cheap enough to fill a mono god battalion. Not to do anything remarkable on the table. 150 pts to take up space isnt the end of the world. And i also stated that if you really want to make a stronger list, replacing them with nurglings is how you achieve that but it breaks the mono god condition that my comments were answering to.

 buddha wrote:
I agree daemons are in a very tough spot, especially mono armies.

I do think there is a niche competitive build of 6 greater daemons with nurglings and a few troops sprinkled in. It negates most of the current builds like harlies and custodes and SMs don't like it's speed and high damage.

i tried this

 buddha wrote:
I agree daemons are in a very tough spot, especially mono armies.

I do think there is a niche competitive build of 6 greater daemons with nurglings and a few troops sprinkled in. It negates most of the current builds like harlies and custodes and SMs don't like it's speed and high damage.

I will run my Mono Khorne army again ultra competitive list. I will make that game soooo boring and easy for them and said in a sarcastic way : that what fun...

I love my Mono Khorne army

I saw one battle report recently where a mono Khorne army held its own against a Blood Angels force by holding objectives. Another one had a BT of insensate rage take down two dreadnoughts in one turn. Mono Khorne can be very powerful if you play your cards right.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I saw one battle report recently where a mono Khorne army held its own against a Blood Angels force by holding objectives. Another one had a BT of insensate rage take down two dreadnoughts in one turn. Mono Khorne can be very powerful if you play your cards right.

Khorne didn't lose any killing power in 9th which is not the issue.

9th is all about objectives and Khorne has seriously problems playing that game. Your only infantry is T3 and pricey. Gets worse as bloodletters are wasted sitting on objectives as their sole use is to kill things. Skull cannons and bloodcrushers are pricey and again focused on killing. So no matter what you bring in mono-khorne you are playing against the mission and over paying points to do it.

 blackmage wrote:

i tried this

Spoiler:

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) [30 PL, 8CP, 597pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Undivided

Detachment CP [-2CP]

+ Stratagems +

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Lord of Change [14 PL, -1CP, 270pts]: Bolt of Change, Exalted Lord of Change, Gaze of Fate, The Impossible Robe

Poxbringer [4 PL, 75pts]: Fleshy Abundance

+ Troops +

Nurglings [4 PL, 72pts]
. 4x Nurgling Swarms: 4x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth

Nurglings [4 PL, 90pts]
. 5x Nurgling Swarms: 5x Diseased claws and teeth

++ Supreme Command Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [24 PL, 3CP, 465pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Cults of the Legion: Cult of Magic

Detachment CP [3CP]

+ Primarch | Daemon Primarch | Supreme Commander +

Magnus the Red [24 PL, 465pts]: Bolt of Change, Infernal Gateway, Warlord, Warptime, Weaver of Fates

++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Chaos - Daemons) [48 PL, -6CP, 930pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Chaos Allegiance: Slaanesh

Detachment CP [-3CP]

+ HQ +

Keeper of Secrets [12 PL, -1CP, 240pts]: Exalted Keeper of Secrets, Shining aegis

Keeper of Secrets [12 PL, -1CP, 240pts]: Exalted Keeper of Secrets, Shining aegis

Keeper of Secrets [12 PL, -1CP, 240pts]: Exalted Keeper of Secrets, Shining aegis

+ Troops +

Daemonettes [4 PL, 70pts]: Alluress
. 9x Daemonette: 9x Piercing claws

Daemonettes [4 PL, 70pts]: Alluress
. 9x Daemonette: 9x Piercing claws

Daemonettes [4 PL, 70pts]: Alluress
. 9x Daemonette: 9x Piercing claws

++ Total: [102 PL, 5CP, 1,992pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Share how it went? How did healing nurglings go? Was the d3 wounds back per turn worth the Poxbringer?

the list perfomed fine, played against AdMech and pull a win but was not easy, nurglings with fleshy abundance+nurgling infestation are a pain to deal with. Not sure still for Magnus but in a list like that i guess is a must include, him or Mortarion, problem of Mortarion is, without warptime hardly you can start it to the table, he is too slow.
You need more nurglins, but i dont have a way to have more, unless i take out a Keeper and dont think is good for how list work

Yeah no 3++ on the Pink Horrors, found that out today. :( Meh. Still they do their thing with a 4++ as well and those 2 CP were quite expensive anyway since i don`t run them solo i only soup them with TS. Might be an option to summon them now since i can`t use the strat so i would safe the CP for that 3rd daemon detachment.


@blackmage: That list looks fun. Magnus is great, but getting Mortarions punch would be nice. Since that Slaanesh detachment is too important for you the only way would be to change that undevided detachment. You could make it a Nurgle detachment, change the LoC to a GuO and take a CSM jumppack sorcerer with Warptime.
But that means loosing the Poxbringer and / or reducing the Nurglings.

GUO is meh.... reduce nurglings is out of question for me, they are too much important forcing opponent to waste fire power on them unless he want i score primary objective each turn, i dont think there is lot do to, only way is take out a KOS (maybe play an herald with forbidden gem+phantasmagoria) and see what happen.

buddha wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I saw one battle report recently where a mono Khorne army held its own against a Blood Angels force by holding objectives. Another one had a BT of insensate rage take down two dreadnoughts in one turn. Mono Khorne can be very powerful if you play your cards right.

Khorne didn't lose any killing power in 9th which is not the issue.

9th is all about objectives and Khorne has seriously problems playing that game. Your only infantry is T3 and pricey. Gets worse as bloodletters are wasted sitting on objectives as their sole use is to kill things. Skull cannons and bloodcrushers are pricey and again focused on killing. So no matter what you bring in mono-khorne you are playing against the mission and over paying points to do it.

Small units of bloodletters can be good holding objectives due to their 5++ (and the strategic use of warp surge) save as long as they as they are backed up by hard-hitting units to attack the enemy, and their combat abilities makes it both easy for them to dislodge MEQs and TEQs and a risk to be charged by enemy units. Skull cannons can be iffy but with the new rules concerning heavy weapons, they aren't bad when kept in the rear. Princes and bloodthirsters backed up by heralds do a great job of mauling the enemy and keeping attacks away from objective-holders. Also, when it comes to taking objectives, people often forget about furies which are arguably better than bloodletters due to their increased speed and their ability to avoid blast weapons due to having a minimum five-model unit number.

I would go for mixed daemons honestly. It sometimes feels like you are playing only one quarter of a codex when you go mono god daemons.

So, like Khorne is killy, but lacks staying power. So mixing nurgle and Khorne helps you shore up each other strengths. You get the bloodletter bombs and killy to clear out objectives, and you get the psychic from nurgle plus the resilient troops that love to just sit on the objectives that Khorne has cleared out.

So, just go maybe double daemon faction. 2 more CP for a patrol with another chaos god is fine honestly, I feel. for Daemons, we generally need more HQ slots anyway. So this way, we don't lose our Loci too.

For any mono-slaanesh players out there what's your daemonette setup? I can't decide if 6 units if 10, 3 of 20, or 30 and three 10 girl units work best. Blast rules bedevil the equation for me.

 buddha wrote:
For any mono-slaanesh players out there what's your daemonette setup? I can't decide if 6 units if 10, 3 of 20, or 30 and three 10 girl units work best. Blast rules bedevil the equation for me.

Go for 10 or 30 and never go for 20. For my bloodletters, 20 trigger the bonus but if i lose one, the bonus is gone. Daemonettes got the same bonus over 20.

I found six old Chaos Furies from the 90's hiding at the back of a cupboard and have started painting them up.

They look to be pretty useful in many of our builds - cheap, fast infantry are great for many missions.

Anyone else been using them?

They’re T3 jump infantry with an invuln. With a small unit size, their main niche will probably be hiding behind LOS blockers, and filling in an Outriders. The latter is probably less useful with them costing 9ppm and a Patrol being effectively the same or better


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean,

Khorne - if you want two Flesh Hounds units and aren’t interested in a Bletterbomb, a small Furies unit is a cheaper detachment tax than ten Bletters

Tzeentch - if you want two Screamer units, nine Brimstones and a Blue are well worth the difference between themselves and five Furies IMO

Nurgle - if you want two Drone units, three Nurglings are a far better tax than five Furies

Slaanesh - if you want two Seeker or Flayer units, a Furies unit isn’t that bad a tax. It’s got synergy with their high movement and charge after advance from the detachment HQs, and it’s got synergy with various Slaaneshi Ld attacks, and if this cavalcade ends up in a brawl with non-ObSec units, it cheaply adds numbers to the objective control balance.

Anyone else liking flamers? They're infantry and great deepstrike units for secondaries and really help with thinning hordes or elites with the new MW strategems.

 buddha wrote:
Anyone else liking flamers? They're infantry and great deepstrike units for secondaries and really help with thinning hordes or elites with the new MW strategems.

Flamers have been the MVP in all my games.

Deepstrike a full squad and teleport a fluxmaster with them for flickering flames, pop the strat and you will melt multiple targets in one shooting phase.
Then you can use them to do actions, baiting the enemy to charge you only to overwatch them to death. Or you can go on the hunt to start melting stuff left and right.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Deepstrike a full squad and teleport a fluxmaster with them for flickering flames, pop the strat and you will melt multiple targets in one shooting phase.
Then you can use them to do actions, baiting the enemy to charge you only to overwatch them to death. Or you can go on the hunt to start melting stuff left and right.

Or, deepstrike a full squad, deepstrike a changecaster, play minions of magic on changecaster, auto manifest infernal gateway (can still be denied on a 10), use the strat to cast another power, use flickering flames on flamers, and use flames of mutation. Thats a lot of MWs. Also a lot of CP.

Anyone playing Crusades with a Chaos force?

So I haven't played 40k in a good few years now, to the point where 8th completely passed me by. I've got a mountain of daemons, mostly Nurgle stuff, and no idea where to start. Anyone point me in the right direction of what makes a semi decent Nurgle focussed list?

The current Nurgle meta is Poxmonger daemon engines and nurgling spam. Plagueburst crawlers, myphitic blight haulers, nurgle defilers, contaminated monstrosity chaos spawn, and nurglings are all excellent right now.

Pure nurgle daemons is low tier right now because the entire daemons book is low tier. It's been this way since marines took over the meta last edition.

Excellent... Perhaps I'll stick to AoS where Nurgle is at least mediocre...

 slave.entity wrote:
The current Nurgle meta is Poxmonger daemon engines and nurgling spam. Plagueburst crawlers, myphitic blight haulers, nurgle defilers, contaminated monstrosity chaos spawn, and nurglings are all excellent right now.

Pure nurgle daemons is low tier right now because the entire daemons book is low tier. It's been this way since marines took over the meta last edition.

Nurglings sound good on paper, but the reality once you start using them is:

a) They are not infantry models. So, you cannot do actions even though you may be sitting on an objective.
b) The meta is gunning for 2/3 wound marines/custodes and therefore cramming D2 (or greater) flat damage weapons into lists. Many armies can wipe out the typical 3 base/12 wound unit without them getting any disgustingly resilient rolls due to their Squishable rule.
c) The larger base sizes makes keeping coherency in building and ruins more difficult especially for larger units unless your opponent is very forgiving with 'wobbly model syndrome'.
d) Even though they have a lot of wounds it's only a few models for Objective Secured purposes. Any objective they steal can be taken back quite easily by almost any other ObSec unit.
e) Plaguebearers don't suffer from any of these problems and can still be placed with Denizens of the Warp closer to where you need them.

Anyone see the SpikeyBits article that a mono-slaanesh list just win a 60 person GT? Very curious to know how it played.

 buddha wrote:
Anyone see the SpikeyBits article that a mono-slaanesh list just win a 60 person GT? Very curious to know how it played.

The list also has 20 seekers with icon and instrument and 89 reinforcment points. Those points are essential in making the list work.

I´ll write a detailed breakdown, but the short story is it´s a finesse army and sequencing/activation of when to activate what unit and how and when to pile-in and consolidate is fundamental. One slip and it all falls apart. Both the 3 fiend units and the epitome can prevent people from falliing back. So you have to plan it really well and get the right unit

And you need to select the right secondaries. A melee-army has to have secondaries that "max out at 15" if the enemy does not come closer to play. So I always planted 3 banners turn1. Turn 1 move (not advance) the daemonettes to 2 objectives and raise the banners. Summon the masque and have it plant the 3rd banner.Unless the enemy takes the objectives from me those 3 flags from turn 1 will always generate 15 VPs.
If you look at the GT-mission packs you will see that you most probably will get the daemonettes in melee turn 2 anyway: the distance between objectives is always less than 24". So turn 1 move the nettes 7 and do an action, turn 2 advance and charge. You will make it even without advancing turn 1.

But then you ask, what if there are screens? That´s perfect: tag the screen, keep a single daemonette in engagement range at 0" and the rest of the unit more than 0.5" away from the first daemonette. , That way only 1 daemonette gets to attack, do the same with a fiend and you are shielded from shooting the next turn. The fiend stays at 1" and the daemonette in base to base, that way only 1 model gets to attack the fiend. There is soo much more to write about positions,charges, pile-ins and consolidate moves. But to make the list work you have to be able to play off those 3" moves in the right order (or else go play Marines ;-P)

The masque is essential for the war of attrition when all units are locked down in CC and can´t fall back. The 6" aura that gives -1 to hit vs keyword DAEMONETTES makes sure you will out-grind most armies since keyword daemonette applies to: daemonettes, seekers, the epitome, Syll´Eske and the masque itself.
This is where the list shines, play the aura of aquicinence (spellig may be off) and stack with bewitching aura and there is no army in the game that will leave the grind alive. To add insult to injury, there is a hidden durability to the list as well: Greater daemons give Ld 10 to nearby daemons, combined with -1 to hit and -1/2 attacks from enemy models, your units just wont lose that many models. Syll´Eske lets you reroll morale tests and go fishing for those 1´s to regain models. The least number of models regained in the grind was probaly 17.

Let´s say you consolidate into 5 aggressors. You can´t attack them, but they will do next to no damage to the nettes: -1/2 attacks, hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s and wounds are saved on 5++. If you lose 4 models and the unit is within 6" of a KoS you can´t fail the moral, but still get to roll, with a reroll from Syll´Eske, to see if you regain d6 models...

 lindsay40k wrote:
Anyone playing Crusades with a Chaos force?

My friend started Necrons and we both were interested in some narrative play. So I started a GK crusade. After crushing him in the first two games (at 25 and 50PL, respectively), I decided I'd make it easier and take Daemons. (Our story is that a Daemon invasion came to an awakening Tomb World, and the GK have been deployed to stop it, with the Spooky Bois stuck in the middle.)

My list at 25PL was a Patrol of Tzeentch Daemons: Changecaster, 20x Pinks, 10x Pinks, 6x Flamers.
It was a close game, but free splitting is the most insane thing that GW has ever imagined. Essentially, from those two units of Pinks, I had 30 4++ saves, 60 5++ saves, and all the ablative wounds I could ever need to sacrifice for morale.
Flamers were the MVP. That much movement on that small of a board was crazy. Of course, I put Marked for Greatness on them and then gave them the Battle-Tested honour. (They are now obsec and can shoot while performing actions.)

My list at 50PL was the same Tzeentch Patrol, with the smaller Pinks bumped to 20. Also a Patrol of TSons: Winged DP, Exalted Sorcerer, and 10x Cultists.
Again, the Flamers were the MVP. Being able to perform an action on a centerfield objective WHILE still delivering all those autohits is brutal.
I deep struck them in the backfield and teleported the Herald support. They killed three units and performed two actions throughout the game. They also warped the entire enemy movement, keeping literally everything running away from them.
The DP got three kills in the game (out of seven enemy units), so he was also, as expected, a beast.
After the first game, we decided that my Pinks wouldn't split down to Brims--I'd stop at Blues. It was still ridiculous. At one point, after gaining Pinks back from morale, I had lost 13 models from the unit, and somehow at 21 models. Very disheartening to the Necron player. I don't feel super bad, though, because I hate Reanimation Protocols.
The Cultists moved forward ~25 inches in that game, and did literally nothing else at all.

My next move is to bring in a LoC, with Robe, Impossible Form, and a decent Exalted trait. I'll also have to buy some TSons infantry at some point, since right now all I own in Sorcerers and Princes. Maybe I'll get my friend a vacuum for his birthday, to help with all the dust.

Are Verlo wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Anyone see the SpikeyBits article that a mono-slaanesh list just win a 60 person GT? Very curious to know how it played.

The list also has 20 seekers with icon and instrument and 89 reinforcment points. Those points are essential in making the list work.

I´ll write a detailed breakdown, but the short story is it´s a finesse army and sequencing/activation of when to activate what unit and how and when to pile-in and consolidate is fundamental. One slip and it all falls apart. Both the 3 fiend units and the epitome can prevent people from falliing back. So you have to plan it really well and get the right unit

And you need to select the right secondaries. A melee-army has to have secondaries that "max out at 15" if the enemy does not come closer to play. So I always planted 3 banners turn1. Turn 1 move (not advance) the daemonettes to 2 objectives and raise the banners. Summon the masque and have it plant the 3rd banner.Unless the enemy takes the objectives from me those 3 flags from turn 1 will always generate 15 VPs.
If you look at the GT-mission packs you will see that you most probably will get the daemonettes in melee turn 2 anyway: the distance between objectives is always less than 24". So turn 1 move the nettes 7 and do an action, turn 2 advance and charge. You will make it even without advancing turn 1.

But then you ask, what if there are screens? That´s perfect: tag the screen, keep a single daemonette in engagement range at 0" and the rest of the unit more than 0.5" away from the first daemonette. , That way only 1 daemonette gets to attack, do the same with a fiend and you are shielded from shooting the next turn. The fiend stays at 1" and the daemonette in base to base, that way only 1 model gets to attack the fiend. There is soo much more to write about positions,charges, pile-ins and consolidate moves. But to make the list work you have to be able to play off those 3" moves in the right order (or else go play Marines ;-P)

The masque is essential for the war of attrition when all units are locked down in CC and can´t fall back. The 6" aura that gives -1 to hit vs keyword DAEMONETTES makes sure you will out-grind most armies since keyword daemonette applies to: daemonettes, seekers, the epitome, Syll´Eske and the masque itself.
This is where the list shines, play the aura of aquicinence (spellig may be off) and stack with bewitching aura and there is no army in the game that will leave the grind alive. To add insult to injury, there is a hidden durability to the list as well: Greater daemons give Ld 10 to nearby daemons, combined with -1 to hit and -1/2 attacks from enemy models, your units just wont lose that many models. Syll´Eske lets you reroll morale tests and go fishing for those 1´s to regain models. The least number of models regained in the grind was probaly 17.

Let´s say you consolidate into 5 aggressors. You can´t attack them, but they will do next to no damage to the nettes: -1/2 attacks, hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s and wounds are saved on 5++. If you lose 4 models and the unit is within 6" of a KoS you can´t fail the moral, but still get to roll, with a reroll from Syll´Eske, to see if you regain d6 models...

This was awesome to read, thank you and congrats on your win. I'll look forward to a more detailed breakdown as you mentioned.

Are Verlo wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Anyone see the SpikeyBits article that a mono-slaanesh list just win a 60 person GT? Very curious to know how it played.

The list also has 20 seekers with icon and instrument and 89 reinforcment points. Those points are essential in making the list work.

I´ll write a detailed breakdown, but the short story is it´s a finesse army and sequencing/activation of when to activate what unit and how and when to pile-in and consolidate is fundamental. One slip and it all falls apart. Both the 3 fiend units and the epitome can prevent people from falliing back. So you have to plan it really well and get the right unit

And you need to select the right secondaries. A melee-army has to have secondaries that "max out at 15" if the enemy does not come closer to play. So I always planted 3 banners turn1. Turn 1 move (not advance) the daemonettes to 2 objectives and raise the banners. Summon the masque and have it plant the 3rd banner.Unless the enemy takes the objectives from me those 3 flags from turn 1 will always generate 15 VPs.
If you look at the GT-mission packs you will see that you most probably will get the daemonettes in melee turn 2 anyway: the distance between objectives is always less than 24". So turn 1 move the nettes 7 and do an action, turn 2 advance and charge. You will make it even without advancing turn 1.

But then you ask, what if there are screens? That´s perfect: tag the screen, keep a single daemonette in engagement range at 0" and the rest of the unit more than 0.5" away from the first daemonette. , That way only 1 daemonette gets to attack, do the same with a fiend and you are shielded from shooting the next turn. The fiend stays at 1" and the daemonette in base to base, that way only 1 model gets to attack the fiend. There is soo much more to write about positions,charges, pile-ins and consolidate moves. But to make the list work you have to be able to play off those 3" moves in the right order (or else go play Marines ;-P)

The masque is essential for the war of attrition when all units are locked down in CC and can´t fall back. The 6" aura that gives -1 to hit vs keyword DAEMONETTES makes sure you will out-grind most armies since keyword daemonette applies to: daemonettes, seekers, the epitome, Syll´Eske and the masque itself.
This is where the list shines, play the aura of aquicinence (spellig may be off) and stack with bewitching aura and there is no army in the game that will leave the grind alive. To add insult to injury, there is a hidden durability to the list as well: Greater daemons give Ld 10 to nearby daemons, combined with -1 to hit and -1/2 attacks from enemy models, your units just wont lose that many models. Syll´Eske lets you reroll morale tests and go fishing for those 1´s to regain models. The least number of models regained in the grind was probaly 17.

Let´s say you consolidate into 5 aggressors. You can´t attack them, but they will do next to no damage to the nettes: -1/2 attacks, hitting on 4s, wounding on 2s and wounds are saved on 5++. If you lose 4 models and the unit is within 6" of a KoS you can´t fail the moral, but still get to roll, with a reroll from Syll´Eske, to see if you regain d6 models...

What are the 89 reinforcement points for specifically? Especially that makes them so key?