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I have several Ogryns and was disappointed that they received the short end of the stick in the new AM codex compared to the far more useful Bullgryns. At the same time, I don't like to shelve my models and buy the Bullgryn kit, so my question is how annoyed would you be if someone wanted to play their ogryns as bullgryns and would you be okay with it? of course the player would let you know before the game starts.

I honestly didn't know there was a difference outside their weapons, which are exclusive to them as far as I'm aware.

I wouldn't have any problem since you're asking "Can I substitute in this model with the same profile and a unique equipment that you'd need to reference the book anyways instead of standard gear like powersword, bolter, etc."

Eh, a big fat smelly dude with a gun is a big fat smelly dude with a gun. I wouldn't care.

Sir Arun wrote:and was disappointed that they received the short end of the stick in the new AM codex compared to the far more useful Bullgryns.

?

Anyways, no, I wouldn't have a problem with the proxy at all. The only possible conflict would be if some of them had big shields and some of them had sticks and small shields while the models all looked the same. If your bullgryn were all one way or another, I don't see why proxying them with regular ogryn would be a problem.

 Ailaros wrote:

Sir Arun wrote:and was disappointed that they received the short end of the stick in the new AM codex compared to the far more useful Bullgryns.

?

Anyways, no, I wouldn't have a problem with the proxy at all. The only possible conflict would be if some of them had big shields and some of them had sticks and small shields while the models all looked the same. If your bullgryn were all one way or another, I don't see why proxying them with regular ogryn would be a problem.

Besides, its not like you're taking a unit of regular ogryn and bullgryn to get anyone confused about (because that would be a huge waste of points!)

Yeah, I couldn't ID either as the specific variant, so as long as your legit about it, your opponents shouldn't have an issue.

When in doubt ask your opponent, TO, FLGS owner, etc.

They are literally the same thing but with different equipment. The only reason GW made them 2 separate units in the Codex is so they could sell it as a dual kit instead of selling it as a single kit with different equipment options.

So yeah, I would have no problem. I'd prefer if you modeled some of the equipment though.

 Ailaros wrote:

Sir Arun wrote:and was disappointed that they received the short end of the stick in the new AM codex compared to the far more useful Bullgryns.

?

well, for 5 extra points per model and trading in your 12" triple shot S5 gun for a small blast grenade launcher, being able to improve your armor save from 5+ to 3+ if you remain in base contact and also giving +1 to cover saves for anything behind you that isnt in cover is a better deal I think.

Just don't care.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Eh, a big fat smelly dude with a gun is a big fat smelly dude with a gun. I wouldn't care.

They don't have guns.

There are two profiles for Bullgryns:
The Slabshield and Grenadier Gauntlet profile and the Brute Shield and Maul.

Same size, its just a different gear option for the model.

Only problem is tournament rules, they must be what they are for ease of identification.

Per the typical "no proxies" tournament rule, it absolutely wouldn't satisfy that.

If I was personally playing someone outside of an event, wouldn't matter at all, so long as it was made clear which models had which Bullgryn loadout.

It probably wouldn't be too hard to glue some shields to their arms if you decide to go Bullgryn in the long run.

Yeah, sheets of plasticard with little windows cut in them would make serviceable (if bland) slabshields. The ripper gun isn't exactly a gauntlet, but it's a perfectly believable grenade launcher. The ones with bucklers and maces need some work to distinguish them though.

Temporarily proxy with another model? Sure. Permanently? Kinda meh. Why not just make/buy some fancy slab shields for them and convert them a little to be WYSIWYG? :-)

As long as there are no two different type of ogryns runing around , count as'ed by the same models , I see no problems. Both types are kind of a bad , so I doubt many would care.

From a gameplay perspective, it's absolutely fine. They're all just Space Ogres to me.

I'd highly encourage it. That way they can try out Bullgryns, realize they're terrible compared to spending 45 points each for allied Assault Terminators, and save a giant pile of money.

As long as they're clearly marked as to what is what, equipment-wise, I don't think there's any real reason to say no other than being TFG.

I don't see who would even complain they weren't converted at all if they just wanted to see how they worked, but as others have stated, if you're going to do it permanently, then protocol dictates you make some effort to reproducing the shields, even if it's zero-cost expired credit cards cut to shape with a window and painted.

I would not let you proxy. If you want to use the unit that has good rules and an ugly model, I'm going to insist you use the ugly model. Because your opponents deserve nothing less than Ogryn Wilfred Brimley and Bane.

squidhills wrote:
I would not let you proxy. If you want to use the unit that has good rules and an ugly model, I'm going to insist you use the ugly model. Because your opponents deserve nothing less than Ogryn Wilfred Brimley and Bane.

Battlecry: "Dia-beetus!"

Buy rhino door or ork door bits on eBay... Boom instant shields

squidhills wrote:
I'm going to insist you use the ugly model. Because your opponents deserve nothing less than Ogryn Wilfred Brimley and Bane.

On the other hand, you raise an intriguing point.

what kind of petty monster kicks up a fuss over this?

pax_imperialis wrote:
what kind of petty monster kicks up a fuss over this?

What kind of annoying player insists on refusing to model options for more than a few proxy games?

Pretending that it's somehow an unreasonable request to expect a modicum of an attempt at WYSIWYG is silly.

Yeah, aside from most people being unaware of the rules for either, they're markedly different units. More so, even, than the difference between shooty and assault terminators. They have different rules, different gear, and very different profiles in both shooting and assault.

If you're trying a unit out, that's one thing, but long term "proxying" is bad form, IMO.

Asking on Dakka is the wrong place to go.

You are going to get answers that range form, "Of course! Do what ever you want, it is just a game!" to "Never! WYSIWYG is law!"

Just ask your local group what they think and plan accordingly, the worst they can do is say no.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Asking on Dakka is the wrong place to go.

You are going to get answers that range form, "Of course! Do what ever you want, it is just a game!" to "Never! WYSIWYG is law!"

Just ask your local group what they think and plan accordingly, the worst they can do is say no.

Huzzah!

Most decent people will allow you to proxy them casually AND EVEN in a tournament.