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Okay, we all know about the Plague zombies, and how they're supposedly one of the greatest new plagues from Nurgle. Also that they're considered a significant threat by the Imperium, so much so that they have an entire new Ordo in the Inquisition specifically to deal with them, 'Ordo Sepulturum'. Below picture for reference -



The thing is... for such a big threat, I don't really see what the big fuss is about.
Sure they have numbers because the Imperium's own civilians will join their ranks if they're infected, but that's all they have going for them.

I don't see how any Fortress can fall to them at all. They are still made of flesh and bone, and therefore they'd be unable to even scratch a Fortress Door let alone breach its walls and inner sanctums. Surviving them would be easy enough; seal any Fortresses and hold out.
Dealing with them is a partial issue simply due to ammo constraints, therefore the best way to eliminate them would be to funnel them towards dedicated CC units that could rotate out and slowly chew through the whole damn lot of them.

Hell, in the case of tanks... the zombies wouldn't even be able to scratch them and so again it's an ammo and a fuel issue only.

The only potential problems I see with Zombies are-
Ammo
Fuel
Supplies (Food and Water)

But then again, if you run out of Ammo or supplies, you can just get airlifted out of their because Zombies can't fly and they can't shoot your planes/shuttles down either. Or, taking the inverse of that.. you can have ammo and supplies constantly shuttled in, and you'd never be at risk.

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In my head Orks are 100x worse simply because an Ork can have a Power Klaw to rip through solid metal doors or tanks, and Orks can have cannons to blast your walls down or guns to shoot your planes trying to escape or deliver materials. They have the numbers like zombies too, but it's their tech with the numbers that makes them a threat.

Why are the Zombies considered such a problem?

Because it only takes one zombie infected to potentially bring down a entire fortress hive world.

And on ammo constraints/ las guns are not most powerful but can just be recharged and your ready to fight again.

Also you assume that the infection is only spread by contact. Infections can mutate, change and become airborne,viral,waterborne or such.

Considering it only takes one Genestealer or one Tzeentch lesser daemon or one preacher of the Aun'va or one Harlequin to bring down any Imperial world to the point of exterminatus if left along long enough and sector-wide war in some cases, zombies are a minimal threat. I think the way to look at the zombies is a symptom of deep seated Nurgle influence, not just the modern zombie film in 40k. The zombie can be killed, but that's just a pustule on the surface. The rot is deep below and inside cults and Nurgle, or daemons of Nurgle, have their claws deep in the heart of the planet and populace now.

Planets have been abandoned before, which makes 'hold out from the zombies' a silly concept. In a universe with threats that resurrect (Necrons), eat everything organic (Tyranids), actual daemons and other threats, old run of the mill zombies just seem so... Boring and easy to deal with. Atleast on a sector-wide scale. I'm sure the X-billion people in a hive might think their struggle means something but as this great new threat? Nah.

Great, so you have a fortress. Nothing can get in unless you let it.

You will run out of food before the zombies stop pounding on the door.

You will pile up zombies until they can climb over your walls on the backs of their rivals.

Oh, and if there's even a single non-zombie Nurglitch fether outside, you're about to get zombies flung over the fortress walls by catapults.

Because the Plague was created during the 13th crusade and was being spear-headed alongside Typhus and the Nurgle fleets, also of note is that Psykers are able to manipulate the zombies into doing more complex tasks.

The Ordo Sepultrum was also designed to deal with all other sorts of chaos inflicted virus as well, not just the Plague of Unbelief.


There's also the fact that large numbers of Zombie Plagues also begin spawning daemonic warp entities known as the 'Vile savants". So not only do you have large amounts of massive plague zombies on hand, but you'll soon have Daemonic Incursions.

Also, since it only takes a single infected to bring an entire Hive (Several Billion people!) to a stop, the problem can be more of an economical one then a threat. Hives are massive places of industry, and if they stop working due to a slight case of MASSIVE ZOMBIE OUTBREAK the entire sector will suffer without whatever that Hive was dedicated to making. The Plague of Undeath was never meant to be a solution that would sweep over the imperium, but it is doing it's job well. It's disrupting supply lines, diverting forces to handle it and putting key planets on hold due to having to handle it. And on the Chaos side of things, all they have to do is send a shuttle full of Zombies down to a Space Port and watch the Fire works, win/win for them, even if the outbreak is contained it will of taken resources and time, and if it becomes large scale, even the involvement of more important forces.

I'm curious about something, what sort of zombies are 40K zombies? Fast or slow ones? Somewhere in the middle? I know it could vary a bit between sources, but what's their usual portrayal?

Death of Antagonis had slow zombies.

Not to be too pedantic, but they weren't the usual Nurgle zombies.

 Troike wrote:
Not to be too pedantic, but they weren't the usual Nurgle zombies.

This is just game mechanics so make of it what you will, but in-game Plague Zombies have SnP.

I would argue that they could shamble quickly.

You've found the flaw with almost every story that features zombies - they forget that humans have lots of ways to destroy them.

They are a bunch of very slow, probably poorly armed (if they're even armed at all) and extremely stupid enemies. Any kind of organised military response would destroy them without effort, especially when you bring in the ludicrous firepower of the WH40K universe. Sit back and hammer them with Basilisks, melt them away with a Bane Wolf, let one Tactical Squad deal with them because in fluff there's no way human teeth and fingers are going to be any use against sealed power armour (if they can get through the hail of bolt shells, flamers and grenades).

Without allies, the zombies seem pretty ineffective as anything but a temporary nuisance.

Zombies aren't really for use against armies though. They're mostly a terror weapon to be brought to bear against civilians.

Pretty much that.

Zombies are not an army weapon, though they can be great for bogging down and distracting an enemy while other elements move into place.

"Zombies, that your best shot servants of Chaos? We cleaned uhm up easy. All you've done is shut down a city for a while, divert Imperial troops, kill millions of people, strengthen the power of your gods, force us to institute anti-zombie measures to prevent further outbreak, spread fear and terror throughout the Imperium, and all for little to no cost to yourselves. You guys really are stupi- Oh."

Well, zombies cause chaos. A lot of chaos. And isn't that the whole goal of Chaos? Chaos wins regardless whether it is defeated on the battlefield or not. Every soul, every victim that falls prey to Nurgle's plague is a victory for Chaos.

 Fezman wrote:
You've found the flaw with almost every story that features zombies - they forget that humans have lots of ways to destroy them.

They are a bunch of very slow, probably poorly armed (if they're even armed at all) and extremely stupid enemies. Any kind of organised military response would destroy them without effort, especially when you bring in the ludicrous firepower of the WH40K universe. Sit back and hammer them with Basilisks, melt them away with a Bane Wolf, let one Tactical Squad deal with them because in fluff there's no way human teeth and fingers are going to be any use against sealed power armour (if they can get through the hail of bolt shells, flamers and grenades).

Without allies, the zombies seem pretty ineffective as anything but a temporary nuisance.

There's the fact that they can cause nurgle daemons to be summoned in enough numbers.

 Otto Weston wrote:

In my head Orks are 100x worse simply because an Ork can have a Power Klaw to rip through solid metal doors or tanks, and Orks can have cannons to blast your walls down or guns to shoot your planes trying to escape or deliver materials. They have the numbers like zombies too, but it's their tech with the numbers that makes them a threat.

Why are the Zombies considered such a problem?

Because the lord of plagues is an age-old master.

Unlike real diseases, the zombie plague, the plague of unbelief, is daemonic in nature. Like a daemon incursion, the mere fact that it got onto your planet at all is cause for inquisition-level judgement.
It attacks the souls of those it greets, and exploits their fear of death, pain, and illness. And only by their soul's destruction do they become zombified.

You may kill them, but the lord of death does not bestow such a gift upon these.

You may hide from them, but they will not tire in their search.

You may run from them, but who's to say you, yourself, are not afflicted?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fezman wrote:
They are a bunch of very slow,

Runners.

 Fezman wrote:
probably poorly armed (if they're even armed at all)

Contagions are contagious.

 Fezman wrote:
and extremely stupid enemies.

Note: IOM.

 Fezman wrote:
Any kind of organised military response would destroy them without effort, especially when you bring in the ludicrous firepower of the WH40K universe.

Jim: "Billy! Call the PDF, we have zombies!"
Billy: "We already did, but on their way here they were killed to a man!"

#grimdark.

Watch the World War Z film (the Brad Pitt one). The bodies pile up and the others climb up the pile. Vehicles get crushed by the sheer weight of bodies. Corridors fill up with zombies, while more zombies push from the back and you have a literal wave of zombies, spilling over each other like a river.

 Deadshot wrote:
Watch the World War Z film (the Brad Pitt one). The bodies pile up and the others climb up the pile. Vehicles get crushed by the sheer weight of bodies. Corridors fill up with zombies, while more zombies push from the back and you have a literal wave of zombies, spilling over each other like a river.

Crappy film, but it illustrates the advantage of near unlimited numbers of fearless and entirely expendable troops.

Cadian blood dealt entirely with this. The zombies originate from cults and didnt spread easily, generally though people are alive and diseased, act like zombies, get shot, come back as zombies, and get shot again. That happened several times. The plague was caused by an old crashed chaos ship with a daemon prince or some stuff like that on it. The abilities of the undead are actually pretty varied.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Watch the World War Z film (the Brad Pitt one). The bodies pile up and the others climb up the pile. Vehicles get crushed by the sheer weight of bodies. Corridors fill up with zombies, while more zombies push from the back and you have a literal wave of zombies, spilling over each other like a river.

Crappy film, but it illustrates the advantage of near unlimited numbers of fearless and entirely expendable troops.

so the imperial guard. (Sorry couldnt resist)

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
so the imperial guard. (Sorry couldnt resist)

Not quite; note the 'fearless'.

Thanks all. This now makes a lot more sense in my head.

We ran Into this problem in a certain RPG here on Dakka. The "dungeon master" introduced plague zombies, but they couldn't wound most of us.
So we all just ended up ignoring them.
Zombies just aren't that big a prOblem to anything in power armour or equivelents.
A single tactical marine could (theoretically) kill any number of plague zombies (millions even) because they simply wouldn't be able to hurt him.
Even if he grew tired, he could sit down and sleep and the zombies still wouldn't be able to hurt him. He could just walk through them whacking them once or twice to kill them.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
We ran Into this problem in a certain RPG here on Dakka. The "dungeon master" introduced plague zombies, but they couldn't wound most of us.
So we all just ended up ignoring them.
Zombies just aren't that big a prOblem to anything in power armour or equivelents.
A single tactical marine could (theoretically) kill any number of plague zombies (millions even) because they simply wouldn't be able to hurt him.
Even if he grew tired, he could sit down and sleep and the zombies still wouldn't be able to hurt him. He could just walk through them whacking them once or twice to kill them.

Yeah, that's what typically happens in the lore. Even the IG isn't heavily bothered by plague zombies- Chimeras go clean through hordes with no issue. Only sentinels and poorly supported infantry are in any danger.

IIRC was there not some fluff in the back of the planet strike book about salamanders investigating a planet only to find countless zombies? Think they had a bit of trouble there

How effective the zombies are is an interesting question. And one can certainly make a good argument for their effectiveness being limited. However, I'd like to point out one piece of fluff that I think demonstrates how big a threat they pose. Basically, what happens is that the zombie plague hits a Hive World, infects lots of people, and eventually spreads to the entire world. The Sisters in the story do hold out very well considering that they're only a Minor Order (100 to 1000 Sisters), and that they have to deal with a planet's worth of zombies converging on them. However, what's important here is that the zombies were able to infect the entire world in the first place, and that only the Sisters, who are the most faithful soldiers in the Imperium, were uniformly immune to the plague (as a warp-born disease, belief can be used against it). Otherwise, this was one perfectly good Hive World rendered useless by Nurgle's zombie plague, and this is with no mention of Nurgle Daemons or mortal servants if his playing any major role in it spreading. Despite the Sisters apparently repelling the attack on their base, zombies are noted as still present on the world, and the Imperium would probably have to divert considerable forces to re-secure the world.

Granted, I'll admit that just how the zombie plague works and how effective it is can vary, but I think that this fluff nicely demonstrates just how threatening zombies in 40K can be. Sure, you may be able to deal with them fairly easily if you're an elite force or are otherwise holed up/shielded, but the rest of the planet will likely be infected.

Edit: changed the part about faith resisting it.

Wasn't the attack that cut down Horus and opened him up to Chaos including zombies? Not exactly normal zombies, but intensely Nurgle powered zombies with weapon mutations like sharpened bone shivs and corrosive toxin blades that melted power armor?

In planetkiller (Spoilers) one of the short stories had the corrupted Admech turning a whole planet into plague zombies. In Let the Galaxy Burn there's a whole sector that turns to epidemic level because the doctors got infected and started spreading the virus.


Plague zombies are sort of the *foot soldiers* for nurgle as well.

 Doctadeth wrote:
In planetkiller (Spoilers) one of the short stories had the corrupted Admech turning a whole planet into plague zombies. In Let the Galaxy Burn there's a whole sector that turns to epidemic level because the doctors got infected and started spreading the virus.


Plague zombies are sort of the *foot soldiers* for nurgle as well.

There's also the fact that there's not much one can do to cure it as well, and there are multiple strands that can cause various types of Plague Zombies.

Not to mention being warp born means that you never even need see an infected either.