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I occasionally hear reference to Blood Angels assault squads that abandon their jet packs and take a discounted transport, and it confuses me. How are they ever going to get to do anything? Aren't they just writing off their entire 100+ pt squad for a 35 point discount? I hear about footslogging Death Company and it strikes me the same- without a Land Raider, how are they ever going to do anything?

BA Assault Squads get all special weapons unlike Codex Marines who only get flamers. So you can run a squad of 10 in a Rhino with dual Plasmarifles which is way more focused than Tac Squads with just a single SW and a Heavy but it fulfills the same role.

It makes more sense when you realise that Blood Angels get land raiders as dedicated transports.

Or pods... pods are great.

Back in 3rd I used to run 10 assault marines with remove jump packs.

They actually started as death company but I didn't play Blood Angels.

They were.. fairly pointless, models looked great and from time to time they would get into range to assault, of course assault was far more potent back then so they were worth the risk.

Now, I can't see anyway to use them.

If going pure footslogging you want at least 20 so death company or BT crusader squad (neither are technically 'assault squads though).
Slingshot them forward with an assault hatch from a bunker.
Or attach an inquisitor with liber heresius for scout.

A five or ten man will do if using them as a counter assault unit in a gunline list.

Aside from that I can't really think of another way to use them.

 Angrypuffin wrote:
I occasionally hear reference to Blood Angels assault squads that abandon their jet packs and take a discounted transport, and it confuses me. How are they ever going to get to do anything? Aren't they just writing off their entire 100+ pt squad for a 35 point discount? I hear about footslogging Death Company and it strikes me the same- without a Land Raider, how are they ever going to do anything?

It's not a huge issue, really, especially if you're putting a central focus on transports and being mechanized.
For my Iron Hands I have two tactical squads, ten men each, both of which are in Rhinos. I also have an assault squad with two flamers that cruises around in a rhino with them. I can move one of the tactical squads onto an objective and have them provide covering fire for the other while they get to another. If I run into any trouble along the way I can have the Assault squad set it on fire and even if they get charged they've still got a healthy amount of attacks. Once they're dismounted they can maneuver onto an objective of their own or scamper around assaulting things while their Rhino blocks line of sight or claims its own objective when no one is looking.

As for Blood Angels, as others have mentioned, running an assault squad with dual plasma guns is great. They can drop-pod in and be right in the enemy's grill with plasma and bolt pistols or just dash from cover to cover and that's all IF you don't slap them into a Rhino (which for Blood Angels are Fast Vehicles) or a Land Raider.

Footslogging Death Company are totally viable, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. They can't score anyway so there's no reason not to just run them down your enemy's throat. They've got feel no pain which is nice and they've got so many damn attacks that even if you lose a few on your way to the enemy its not going to adversely effect the dent you're going to make. Plus they're Relentless so you can stuff them in a Rhino and drive around shooting stuff without issue.

A DC rhino never lasts long. Most effective way I have found running DC is either pod or slingshot. Footslogging does work if given the advantage of a slingshot move or scout move. At the end of the day if 6 or 7 of my death co make it to an opponents unit they will wreck face against almost anything. Especially if you have a couple of surviving hidden powerfists.

The major advantage of footslogging DC is that you can attach an inquisitor, with liber for scout and more importantly - counter attack. And if facing MCs, rad granades in combination with 5 st5 attacks on the charge per model basic (plus ws5) will destroy almost any mc! You can also attach an AM priest to reroll hits and (probably) wounds. That is 1/4 of the price for the same advantages a chaplain gives you and doesn't use up an elites slot. 5 st 5 ws5 attacks rerolling to hit and wound PER MODEL against opponents with -1T is insane! And that's before you look at the 8 st9 pf attacks from the 2 hidden fists.


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Just never take them with jps!


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Oh - if running them in a pod take bolters for the drop.


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Anyhow I think we have hijacked the 'assault squad' thread with DC :-p

BA Assault Marines as Troops get a better weapon load out and Fast Rhino at about the same cost as tac Marines for the jump pack trade. They make solid foot sloggers in a BA list.

Poly Ranger wrote:
A DC rhino never lasts long. Most effective way I have found running DC is either pod or slingshot. Footslogging does work if given the advantage of a slingshot move or scout move. At the end of the day if 6 or 7 of my death co make it to an opponents unit they will wreck face against almost anything. Especially if you have a couple of surviving hidden powerfists.

The major advantage of footslogging DC is that you can attach an inquisitor, with liber for scout and more importantly - counter attack. And if facing MCs, rad granades in combination with 5 st5 attacks on the charge per model basic (plus ws5) will destroy almost any mc! You can also attach an AM priest to reroll hits and (probably) wounds. That is 1/4 of the price for the same advantages a chaplain gives you and doesn't use up an elites slot. 5 st 5 ws5 attacks rerolling to hit and wound PER MODEL against opponents with -1T is insane! And that's before you look at the 8 st9 pf attacks from the 2 hidden fists.


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Just never take them with jps!


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Oh - if running them in a pod take bolters for the drop.


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Anyhow I think we have hijacked the 'assault squad' thread with DC :-p

To further hijack (for one post anyway), under 7th ed you can now stick DC and said Inquisitor in a Land Raider together, first turn, provided it was purchased as HS rather than DT.

That is very true! Good thinking!

On a seperate note - how rediculously good are OS drop pods at 35pts!!! They actually make a pure DC list (along with OS DC dreads) a possible venture now!

Poly Ranger wrote:
That is very true! Good thinking!

On a seperate note - how rediculously good are OS drop pods at 35pts!!! They actually make a pure DC list (along with OS DC dreads) a possible venture now!

Something I've always dreamed of doing. Lemartes with a fat blob in a Raider, Astorath perhaps with a JP group. Several more smaller teams in pods along with the Dreadnoughts they unlock (which are also OS).

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
That is very true! Good thinking!

On a seperate note - how rediculously good are OS drop pods at 35pts!!! They actually make a pure DC list (along with OS DC dreads) a possible venture now!

Something I've always dreamed of doing. Lemartes with a fat blob in a Raider, Astorath perhaps with a JP group. Several more smaller teams in pods along with the Dreadnoughts they unlock (which are also OS).

I think OS makes the death co dread viable now. For 160pts you get 2 OS av12 vehicles, 1 with insanely good assault potential. Thats pretty damn good for 160pts! All troops becoming OS benefitted the DC dread more than most I think.


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Its just a pity about the compulsory 220pts astorath.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
That is very true! Good thinking!

On a seperate note - how rediculously good are OS drop pods at 35pts!!! They actually make a pure DC list (along with OS DC dreads) a possible venture now!

Something I've always dreamed of doing. Lemartes with a fat blob in a Raider, Astorath perhaps with a JP group. Several more smaller teams in pods along with the Dreadnoughts they unlock (which are also OS).

I think OS makes the death co dread viable now. For 160pts you get 2 OS av12 vehicles, 1 with insanely good assault potential. Thats pretty damn good for 160pts! All troops becoming OS benefitted the DC dread more than most I think.


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Its just a pity about the compulsory 220pts astorath.

You could always put 15 DC's plus a libby/chappy in a Crusader and have 3 DC dreads in pods. No need for terrible Astorath if you go that route.

Fast Las plasma razorback is no joke in 7e

Drop Pods are the single greatest unit in the game. Free ones are even better.

Foot slogging Assault Marines are terrible. Yeah, you got two specials, but the rest of squad are walking around with Bolt pistols as opposed to Boltguns for nearly every other Marine.
You don't get a 'free' drop pod - you've already paid for it in the cost of the ASM.

10x BA ASM, 2x Plasma Guns, Drop Pod = 220pts
10x BA Tacticals, 1x Plasma Gun, Multi-Melta, Drop Pod = 215pts

I'd rather have the Tacticals. Grey Hunters make podded ASM look even more of a joke

10x Grey Hunters, 2x Plasma Guns, Drop Pod = 195pts

Yeah, but both of the other squads you listed are ld8 as opposed to 9, and the ASMs, unlike the tacs, can actually pack up and charge something if need be. Pinning is a thing. And if you pay for a vet sarge in that tac squad, it costs 5 points more than the assault marine squad. If you put a grey hunter with combi weapon in with the wolves, then you lose the 2nd actual special weapon and it becomes just as expensive as the BA squad. Lastly, ill take a 2nd plasma gun over a snp firing multi melta any day.

And jump infantry as troops is still awesome.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Fast Las plasma razorback is no joke in 7e

They are not that great for 90pts. You can have a C:SM scouting las-plas razor or IWND las-plas razor for 15pts less. If you are taking it for the transportation a rhino is 55pts less (C:SM) and has 4 more cap. For the firepower, you can take a pred with las side sponsoons (and with IWND) for only 25pts more.

For a direct comparison:
BA las-plas razor + 5 assault marines 155pts
Ironhands/ravenguard tl lascannon razor + 5 tacs + plasma gun 155pts

BA pred moves 12" gets to fire lascannon and plasma
IH/RG moves 6", squad disembarks 6", now the plasma gun is the same distance away as the BA razor would be. Gets to fire a TL lascannon and plasma and 4 bolters. Also has IWND or scout/outflank.
The other advantage of the second option is that if the razor goes down you still have the plasma. If the squad goes down you still have the tl lascannon. Whereas with the BA option, if the razor goes down you lose both.


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Pods are amazing for 35pts, especially OS ones! But as Bartali points out - BA pods are not free.


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 tomjoad wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
That is very true! Good thinking!

On a seperate note - how rediculously good are OS drop pods at 35pts!!! They actually make a pure DC list (along with OS DC dreads) a possible venture now!

Something I've always dreamed of doing. Lemartes with a fat blob in a Raider, Astorath perhaps with a JP group. Several more smaller teams in pods along with the Dreadnoughts they unlock (which are also OS).

I think OS makes the death co dread viable now. For 160pts you get 2 OS av12 vehicles, 1 with insanely good assault potential. Thats pretty damn good for 160pts! All troops becoming OS benefitted the DC dread more than most I think.


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Its just a pity about the compulsory 220pts astorath.

You could always put 15 DC's plus a libby/chappy in a Crusader and have 3 DC dreads in pods. No need for terrible Astorath if you go that route.

Yeh im thinking of a bunker to slingshot for cheaper.

What's the capacity on a bunker? 25 Death Co, 5 drop pod DC dreads...that's a lot of hurt, right? Hahaha. Either way, the less aid about Astorath the better, I reckon. If he allows DC to be scoring/ObSec in the next book, I'll be happy though.

 tomjoad wrote:
What's the capacity on a bunker? 25 Death Co, 5 drop pod DC dreads...that's a lot of hurt, right? Hahaha. Either way, the less aid about Astorath the better, I reckon. If he allows DC to be scoring/ObSec in the next book, I'll be happy though.

Capacity of 20, iirc.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Yeah, but both of the other squads you listed are ld8 as opposed to 9, and the ASMs, unlike the tacs, can actually pack up and charge something if need be. Pinning is a thing. And if you pay for a vet sarge in that tac squad, it costs 5 points more than the assault marine squad. If you put a grey hunter with combi weapon in with the wolves, then you lose the 2nd actual special weapon and it becomes just as expensive as the BA squad. Lastly, ill take a 2nd plasma gun over a snp firing multi melta any day.

And jump infantry as troops is still awesome.

The BA Tacs are LD9. There's nothing stopping the Tacs from charging, they just have one less attack. Both are generally terrible in assault versus dedicated assault troops anyway. I'd rather be shooting Boltguns at stuff.

Poly Ranger wrote:
For a direct comparison:
BA las-plas razor + 5 assault marines 155pts
Ironhands/ravenguard tl lascannon razor + 5 tacs + plasma gun 155pts

Well yeah, that is true.
But what if I don't want to get rid of my Blood Angel-codex in favour of another Chapter?
We all know that it's the better option, but I am stubborn and want to continue to play BA.
In that case a DT is really good for them, or let's rephrase that and say that DT is often better than keeping them with their JPs.

Personally id rather keep them with their jump packs, but thats just me. Being able to move 12+d6 inches a turn, or move 12 and still shoot and/or assault is awesome. Like a bike army who trades jink with the ability to o up levels in buildings and ruins and jump over stuff.

And the ravenguard razorback is NOT better than ours. You cited that they can get out and shoot after moving 12 inches. And then have them hanging out to dry next turn. Moving 12 and firing both weapons is sick. Besides, the heavy bolter razorback is fine. It can take hull points off of light vehicles and put dents in infantry. And it costs the same as the vanilla marine dex.

I originally asked because there are a number of "cool" assault units that are prohibitively expensive with jump packs, namely Death Company and Vanguard Veterans. It sounds like what I'm hearing is that you can't run those with jump packs, because they're way too expensive. But you can't footslog them, because they'll get shot off the table. So basically the only option is a Land Raider. Is that right?

In either case, I appreciate people pointing out that for regular assault marines it does give you an option for 2 specials instead of 1 special and a heavy, and I can see how that would be good.

 Angrypuffin wrote:
I originally asked because there are a number of "cool" assault units that are prohibitively expensive with jump packs, namely Death Company and Vanguard Veterans. It sounds like what I'm hearing is that you can't run those with jump packs, because they're way too expensive. But you can't footslog them, because they'll get shot off the table. So basically the only option is a Land Raider. Is that right?

In either case, I appreciate people pointing out that for regular assault marines it does give you an option for 2 specials instead of 1 special and a heavy, and I can see how that would be good.

No - you can use a drop pod, or you can slingshot them turn1 onto the opponents deployment line using a bunker with escape hatch.

With Death Co, a Land Raider is the most reliable option. It's expensive though, so a slightly cheaper choice is a Storm Raven. More fragile, and it precludes the DC charging prior to turn 3, though. The last option is a drop pod, but DC in a pod will rarely ever declare a charge v a good opponent. The REAL last option is to just suck it up another six months, safe in the knowledge that jump packs will be way cheaper in the 7th end codex.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Personally id rather keep them with their jump packs, but thats just me. Being able to move 12+d6 inches a turn, or move 12 and still shoot and/or assault is awesome. Like a bike army who trades jink with the ability to o up levels in buildings and ruins and jump over stuff.

And the ravenguard razorback is NOT better than ours. You cited that they can get out and shoot after moving 12 inches. And then have them hanging out to dry next turn. Moving 12 and firing both weapons is sick. Besides, the heavy bolter razorback is fine. It can take hull points off of light vehicles and put dents in infantry. And it costs the same as the vanilla marine dex.

I didn't say they could disembark after 12" move, I said they could disembark after a 6" move then move 6" for the disembark distance, thus putting the plasma gun the same distance away as the BA razor would be thus getting the same shots. Plus the lascannon shot is twinlinked. Plus you get 4 to 8 bolter shots. Plus your opponent now has to decide which to shoot - if you lose one you still have the other, unlike for BA. Plus you get scout/outflank (outflanking a tl lascannon is excellent).
If you are keeping the squad in the razor most of the game you are seriously wasting points.


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 tomjoad wrote:
With Death Co, a Land Raider is the most reliable option. It's expensive though, so a slightly cheaper choice is a Storm Raven. More fragile, and it precludes the DC charging prior to turn 3, though. The last option is a drop pod, but DC in a pod will rarely ever declare a charge v a good opponent. The REAL last option is to just suck it up another six months, safe in the knowledge that jump packs will be way cheaper in the 7th end codex.

Slingshot IS a really good option! Almost guaranteed turn 2 charge!

You'll get disappointed by footsloggas the moment they need to go somewhere. It's gona take you like 3-4 turns to cross the board and start threatening something having done nothing on the way there. I'm telling you from an ork's POV. Starting from 6-th footsloggas can't do a thing really. They're good for bauble-wrapping though.

If you're playing marines, alwayz take transports. Rhinos are cheap and way more effective than footslogging. Pods bring you straight to the enemy to overhelm him with threats and hit soft spots. But all in all, current assault rules make assault marines worse than mediocre unless they're in a landraider. And stuff like termies are usually better in landraiders.

Poly Ranger wrote:No - you can use a drop pod, or you can slingshot them turn1 onto the opponents deployment line using a bunker with escape hatch.

Right- I keep forgetting that, since fortifications aren't in the core rulebook anymore...

Poly Ranger wrote:Slingshot IS a really good option! Almost guaranteed turn 2 charge!

But doesn't "Almost guaranteed turn 2 charge" mean "almost guaranteed turn 1 shot off the board"? I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I just don't see how any list couldn't and wouldn't do that. Death company aren't that tough. But maybe that's okay if they're cheap and cheerful, because then they're not attacking your other stuff?