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The last time I was seriously list building to play was back in 5th edition. Back then I recall that generally it was a good idea to have at least one sergeant kitted with a powerfist. I like the idea of something that allows my sarge to hit at ST8 to both vehicles and assault but it does not seem that other metas share that desire. When I see lists being played in battle reports in 6th and 7th I rarely, if ever, see a sergeant sporting a powerfist and for that matter a power weapon. It seems like the focus is almost exclusively on the ranged weapons load out. I recognize assault is much more difficult to pull off in this edition but what are the considerations for using a powerfist? I guess part of it is that they are an expensive upgrade and I could definitely use the points elsewhere but are there circumstances, units, missions, where having a fist is either ideal or desirable?

Power weapons are slightly different as they are less expensive than a fist but the move to AP3 makes them less nasty than they were in 5th. Similar question - are power weapons a good idea? Any units or circumstances where having them would be ideal? Are all power weapons created equal or are things like power claws better than the standard power sword?

Thanks

They're a lot of points and they're unwieldy. In a shooty edition, I'm not spending 25 points on an upgrade for a model that has a decent chance of being dead before he gets to use it.

I'm a fan of throwing Power Axes on my sergeants, they're ap2 and str 6 which is good for wounding most stuff. For 15 pts rather than 25 for a fist.

I am a large fan of mauls, as they are +2 str (6), strike at I, and are ap4. Now, the axe is Ap2, and +1 str (5).

against armies with I lower than 5, the maul usually wins out, vs armies I5 or higher, the axe is probably the better bet.

I use sword models though because they look the best

Your CT will affect your decision there too. Salamander characters can master-craft one of their weapons, making their PW upgrade more efficient. Black Templars have access to Crusader squad, which allows a non-character model to have a PW and the Sword Brethren (srgt) re-rolls to hit in challenges (claw works well there and a PF on the non-character model).

Beyond that, 6th and 7th have definitely driven SM builds away from CC. If I play competitively I'll usually keep my srgt upgrades on the cheap (veteran, combi-weapon, and maybe a MB). Over 4-5 units you're looking at a minimum saving of 60pts, way more if you were planning on PF. I'd rather add numbers.

Cheers.

I would never take a CC weapon on my Sgt. in a competitive environment. In anything less than that I would take one, if only for how cool it is. Salamanders can master craft them as stated above.

 Feasible wrote:
I would never take a CC weapon on my Sgt. in a competitive environment. In anything less than that I would take one, if only for how cool it is. Salamanders can master craft them as stated above.

true, think of it this way.

would you rather give 3 sgts the vet upgrade + power weapon... or take a whirlwind at 65 pts? (less than the 3 vet sgts. + power weapons!)

The go-to power weapon is usually the sword, some go for the axe but its usually the sword that wins in the trade-off.
Power sword isnt unwieldy or specialist either, so you get +1 attack for two combat weapons if you still have your boltpistol. On a model that has crap for attacks to begin with, thats kinda important.

In regards to the power fist, the only army that can use them effectively is orks with powerklaws because we can spam the gak out of them, have more attacks, and basically every single unit can have 1.

If you can hide a power fist / weapon in a unit with multiple characters it's a solid investment. Lets you kill off a few models without fear of losing the expensive wargear to a challenge.

Honestly a Combi Plas/Melta would be much better.

If I'm in fear of vehicles I'll consider some melta bombs otherwise kraks will finish off lighter vehicles. If it's heavy armour such as armour 14 I doubt the power fist would've cut it anyway.

 Feasible wrote:
Honestly a Combi Plas/Melta would be much better.

This is what I've been moving towards. A combi-whatever that matches any special weapon already in the squad.

I'd consider a power weapon (axe, sword, or maul all have their advantages) in one squad in a power armoured force, if I had the points to spare, and if I already had combi-weapons. But really, if you want power armoured dudes with power weapons, it's probably better value to ally in Coteaz and either some Grey Knights or some henchmen. Bear in mind that Crusaders effectively get you an extra scoring body, a storm shield, AND a power weapon for the same cost as JUST a power weapon in any Marine codex, and it just gets silly to even think of sarges with power weapons as a cornerstone of your strategy -- especially when you consider that even at that price, Crusaders aren't regarded as all that good!

Just in reference to taking down vehicles with your sergeant, that's what you give him a melta-bomb for. It will almost always get you farther than a powerfist, and it's a whole hell of a lot cheaper (plus you won;t be challenged out and killed before striking with that expensive fist!)

Quite frankly the melta bomb kills vehicles more reliably too. Yes its only 1 attack due to grenade rules, but a powerfist sergeant only has 2 attacks anyway....both are S8...the fist is AP2 and 1D6 pen while the bomb is AP1 and 2D6 pen.

Even if it was the same cost, i'd go with the melta bomb. But its cheaper, so its a better weapon PERIOD against vehicles.