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Hi all.

I'm contemplating a new army of wolves for seventh. I have no idea how they work tactically though. Nor do I know best/worst units. I just like the look, feel and principle of space wolves. So I am looking for some help. What's a good core to an army? Are there any auto includes? Any units not worth touching? Strengths and weaknesses? You know the stuff.

However, I am aware there is a rumoured new Dex for the sons of Russ next month and that that could change a great deal. Perhaps people could enlighten me as to the rumoured changes? Whether they are going to improve the wolves or hinder them. Is there any new units we are not aware ye aware of.

I'll be starting from scratch, and money and time are on my side. I like the idea of a psychic wolves list, and I like the idea of actually including fenrisian wolves in the list. Just to give people a Base to work from.

I'd like it to be quite competitive. But I'm not massively keen on spamming units just to win. I'd like a little TAC if I can.

Please help dakka.

You're going to have to wait till this weekend to get any useful information.

So far we're all in the dark about what's going to be in the book with too many salty rumors and not enough info to work from.

We don't know an awful lot, if anything, yet, but there are a few things that will remain decent regardless.

Grey Hunters will almost certainly keep access to dual special weapons, albeit with a probable (and not unwarranted) price hike. This makes them great in drop pods, where you can get your flamers, plasmas and meltas in effective range from the word go. Assuming they will keep counter attack (I'm sure they will) and the option to take CCW without losing the Bolter (I imagine they will) they are then in a position to make or receive a charge very well depending on the opponent. GH in pods will remain the mainstay of many lists, I think.

One of the most solid rumours, based on Stormclaw and several sources, is that Blood Claws will be dropping to 13 points per model, which makes them very cheap for a 4 Attacks on the charge and the defence that comes with a 3+ save and T4. Throw in a Wolf Priest and you have a very nice assaulty unit that, with a LRC/Stormwolf transport or just running, will reach combat and kill stuff.

Rune Priests will probably remain solid, at the very least they'll provide some psychic potential, both defensively and offensively. They'll probably get a points drop in line with DA/SM psykers as well. Wolf Priests will still be good for assaulty units. Wolf Lords will almost certainly remain potential melee badasses, with high volme of attacks and access to the armoury (and hopefully some neat Relic weapons).

The points costs for units shared with C:SM will 99% likely be the same, meaning that Whirlwinds, Vindicators, Predators and Land Raiders will all be decent choices.

Grab a squad or two GH/BC, any of the HQs, and a tank or two, and you're good to go! Also, check ebay, thanks to Stormclaw there are a load of cheap PA SW (and SW Termies, for that matter) on there. Can't argue with £16-ish for a squad of GH, or around £18 for Terminators.

It seems I can pick up the complete storm claw wolves set for a little over £40. Would this be a good start?

Yep, it would be. You'll probably want at least 20 Grey Hunters, so certainly grab a couple of sets of those, and another one if you want some Blood Claws. The Termies aren't the most effective option but are completely great models, so you can't go wrong in that sense. At Ebay prices, around £50 should get you 20 GH and 5 Termies, throw in a HQ (and given the array of spare Bitz in a GH box, anything in power armour can be converted) and you've got a pretty neat army-in-progress.

I'm liking the look of thunderwolf mounts for HQ, and as a fast attack choice. Are they any good? I was going to throw some vindicators in for good measure and perhaps mount the grey hunters in drop pods?

They CAN be good in my experience but I would wait for the codex before making serious decisions about them.

Anybody with any new or updated rumours on units in the new book? I'm hoping for access to a little more whilst retaining the wolf weapons. I'm kinda hoping ferrisians and such gain a boost of some kind.

The rumours that have come out since the other day:

Venerable Dreads have access to a giant Frost Axe (S:X2 AP2) and Storm Shield (AP2, 3++ from attacks from the front arc). Confirmed, and while there's no word on price, this could be very good, especially in multiples and drop pods.

New Bjorn model, no word on rule changes. New Dread SC Murderfang, looks pretty damn good with an average of 7-8 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge.

Other than that, not an awful lot on the bread and butter of the army. The only new (and not confirmed) rumours are that Wolf Guard are now 'Sergeant' upgrades to GH/BC and can take TDA. Wolf Guard in TDA can DS.

Loving the dread rumours though.

Yeah, they sound great and the models are awesome! I think it'll be easy enough to build an interchangeable Venerable/Murdefang/Bjorn from the same kit.

Any pictures around?

The first post of this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/605383.page

Scroll down and you'll see them.

As other have mentioned, there are some key units we still have zero info about.

Rune priests, Wolf Scouts, TWC, Lone Wolves, Wolf Guard (aside from you can take them in PA or TDA, but not mixed) Long fangs and pretty much the entire HQ slot.

Apparently Scouts have lost 'behind enemy lines', so no more back edge outflank. Which is a shame, but not unexpected. That said, a new wolf detachment with a 2-hq requirement gives outflank to any unit with an IC on a 4+, so mass outlfabnking may be possible (and you can take 6 HQ in this detachment!).

This may make WGBL useful assuming they get a points drop, as outflank providers.

So do we think these new dread variants will have a place in a list? I smile at the idea of dropping in a murderfang and a frost axe venerable in pods into my friends farsight lines.... But fear they will still drop to easily when standing there for a turn...

The thing with dreads is that they get much harder to kill when you there are several hard targets that need taking out. One will go down fairly easily, but two are significantly tougher, and once you throw in some other tanks, termies or pods they're pretty survivable. The ss also helps this.

Well my normal Core is:
>Rune Priest [Level-2]
>Long Fangs [Heavy Bolter x1, Las-Cannon x2, Missile Launcher x2]
>Wolf Scouts [Plasma-Gun, Plasma Pistol x2]
>Grey Hunters [Plasma Guns]
>Grey Hunters [Plasma Guns]
>Land Speeders x3 [Heavy Bolter x3, Typhoon Missile Launchers x3]

I will probably be adding:
>Stormwolf [or 2]
>Venerable Dread [Axe and Shield]
>MurderFang
>Pods or the Stormwolf for the Grey Hunters.
>Something for the Stormwolf if not with the Grey Hunters.

My typical core build is
Rune Priest, TDA, lvl2
20-30 GH, meltas, standards in drop pods
scouts, melta, plasma pistol
Long fangs, 4 missiles, Lascannon

Then I add a predator with lascannons and LRC as points go up. In 1,850+ games I take 5 terminators with 2 SS/TH, 2 combi melta/chainfist and a cyclone missile launcher.

Interesting that your cores are so similar. I was really keen on canis and loads of ferrisians. I'm guessing these aren't all that good?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Interesting that your cores are so similar. I was really keen on canis and loads of ferrisians. I'm guessing these aren't all that good?

Yes they are, I have using this as my core since the 5th ed book came out. In 6th the Land Speeders and the Rune Priest have really started to shine.

As far as Canis, I don't know yet, we will have to see.

It seems dreadnoughts will become very popular in SW armies....very unfortunate since 1K sons have so little anti-armor...I CANNOT LET THE WOLVES OF FENRIS BEAT ME

There are no wolves on Fenris...

One of the problems with dread lists for Wolves is pretty much the same problem they have always had. Each dread is one Elite slot. You only get three in a standard FOC. So Murderfang and one Venerable and now you only have one slot left for Wolf Guard, termi wolfguard (these appear to be their own units now), Wolf Scouts, Iron Priests, and Lone Wolves.

I know that 7th ed is all about unbound, or multiple detachments, and allies with yourself and those sort of things, but for single FOC traditionalists, one dread is ok, but multiple dreads is usually list breaking.

As such I'm hoping we see squadrons or that Lone Wolves don't take up FOC slots. But I'm not holding my breath either.

 Jayden63 wrote:
One of the problems with dread lists for Wolves is pretty much the same problem they have always had. Each dread is one Elite slot. You only get three in a standard FOC. So Murderfang and one Venerable and now you only have one slot left for Wolf Guard, termi wolfguard (these appear to be their own units now), Wolf Scouts, Iron Priests, and Lone Wolves.

I know that 7th ed is all about unbound, or multiple detachments, and allies with yourself and those sort of things, but for single FOC traditionalists, one dread is ok, but multiple dreads is usually list breaking.

As such I'm hoping we see squadrons or that Lone Wolves don't take up FOC slots. But I'm not holding my breath either.

True, but with the rumored ability to take WGPLs as part of your Grey Hunters don't have to take up a slot for Pack Leaders.
I know with my normal builds all I have to do is add a second HQ and I can double FOC giving me 3 Elite slots.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
One of the problems with dread lists for Wolves is pretty much the same problem they have always had. Each dread is one Elite slot. You only get three in a standard FOC. So Murderfang and one Venerable and now you only have one slot left for Wolf Guard, termi wolfguard (these appear to be their own units now), Wolf Scouts, Iron Priests, and Lone Wolves.

I know that 7th ed is all about unbound, or multiple detachments, and allies with yourself and those sort of things, but for single FOC traditionalists, one dread is ok, but multiple dreads is usually list breaking.

As such I'm hoping we see squadrons or that Lone Wolves don't take up FOC slots. But I'm not holding my breath either.

True, but with the rumored ability to take WGPLs as part of your Grey Hunters don't have to take up a slot for Pack Leaders.
I know with my normal builds all I have to do is add a second HQ and I can double FOC giving me 3 Elite slots.

That's a good point. Two CADs or a CAD and the new formation is only 3 HQs and 4 Troops. That doesn't seem like a tax to me.

 pretre wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
One of the problems with dread lists for Wolves is pretty much the same problem they have always had. Each dread is one Elite slot. You only get three in a standard FOC. So Murderfang and one Venerable and now you only have one slot left for Wolf Guard, termi wolfguard (these appear to be their own units now), Wolf Scouts, Iron Priests, and Lone Wolves.

I know that 7th ed is all about unbound, or multiple detachments, and allies with yourself and those sort of things, but for single FOC traditionalists, one dread is ok, but multiple dreads is usually list breaking.

As such I'm hoping we see squadrons or that Lone Wolves don't take up FOC slots. But I'm not holding my breath either.

True, but with the rumored ability to take WGPLs as part of your Grey Hunters don't have to take up a slot for Pack Leaders.
I know with my normal builds all I have to do is add a second HQ and I can double FOC giving me 3 Elite slots.

That's a good point. Two CADs or a CAD and the new formation is only 3 HQs and 4 Troops. That doesn't seem like a tax to me.

True, we normally play 2k+ games.
Normally I bring as my core:
HQ] Rune Priest
Troops] x4 Grey Hunters
Elite: Wolf Scout
Fast Attack: 3x Land Speeder Typhoon Squadron
Heavy Support: Long Fang Pack
It would not be hard to add a HQ [Bjorn?] or 2-3 Dreads and/or my Lone Wolves

Maybe Bjorn could allow dreads as troops... either that or I wouldn't be surprised to see some related data slates. I'm personally gunning for better thunderwolf cavalry with better weapon options. And perhaps thunderwolf mounts for rune priests and such. And cheaper ferrisians.

With the numerous nerfs to Grey Hunters, I am kind of surprised to see that everyone is still considering them the way to go.


Bloodclaws might not be great, but they are getting better and if Grey Hunters end up being slightly more expensive, slighly better tactical marines is everyone so sure you want to build an army around them?

I'm tossing around the idea of 30ish Blood Claws in a pair of Stormfangs(? - the transport one) as an army base.

 Exergy wrote:
With the numerous nerfs to Grey Hunters, I am kind of surprised to see that everyone is still considering them the way to go.


Bloodclaws might not be great, but they are getting better and if Grey Hunters end up being slightly more expensive, slighly better tactical marines is everyone so sure you want to build an army around them?

I'm not sure what nerfs you're referring to. They come stock at 14ppm, and assuming the CCW upgrade (which is still there; several models in the codex preview have bolter and ccw) is 1ppm, like csm, then they come to 15ppm, which is where thgery were before and perfectly reasonable.

The only thing they are likely to be losing is the free special weapons, which, while annoying, was not at all unexpected. They remain, from the looks of it, one of the best troop choices in the game.