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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/enola-gay-atomic-bomb-crew-van-kirk-dies-93

Another prominent member of the WW2 generation passes on. RIP.

Attennshuun!!!

Preesent Arms!!!

(Taps)

Orderrr Arms!!!


Respect to the man for his service and for having to carry the weight of being one of the few to have actually used a nuclear weapon on an enemy during a time of war.

Next week will be the 69th anniversary of the Hiroshima mission. Let his passing give cause for younger generations to remember the tremendous gravity of the Hiroshima mission.

Condolences to his family,

Dakka Dakka

Focusedfire sums it up perfectly.

 focusedfire wrote:

Next week will be the 69th anniversary of the Hiroshima mission. Let his passing give cause for younger generations to remember the tremendous gravity of the Hiroshima mission.
Dakka Dakka

Agreed, It must have been a staggering thing to have been a part of such a vitally important and yet utterly horrific event. Even if you agree that the dropping of the bombs constituted the lesser of two evils (and I certainly do) to be so central to it must cause a man to engage in some very deep reflection.

I wonder how much he knew about the effect the bomb would have before the mission.

I thought they didn't know much about its effect until after they dropped it?

They were told to fly to point x, drop the bomb and get out of there as fast as possible.

Even if they did know they couldn't really have refused the mission, could they?

 dogma wrote:
I wonder how much he knew about the effect the bomb would have before the mission.

My guess is very little. You gotta remember just how secret the Manhattan project was at the time... My guess is, they had a special loading team load and arm the bomb, and simply told the bomber crew "fly to this altitude, and when you get to this location, drop the bomb from this altitude... then head straight to your exfil/rendezvous point"

I think they knew practically nothing, as far as they where concerned it was just another bombing mission with some special instructions and an 'experimental' bomb to drop.

I can already see the protests at his grave from peace activists

It is a good occasion to remember the bombing. It shouldn't matter if you were for it or against it, we can all stop and think about the impact it had on everybody involved and affected.

From the various biographies I've read on the subject (FDR, Truman, MacArthur etc) I can't help but feel that if FDR had still been alive, the bomb may not have dropped. At the time, and with the imminent Soviet invasion of Manchuria, there was a small group of high ranking Japanese ready to do a deal.

FDR, being the ultimate politician, might have been the one to reach a breakthrough and arrange a negotiated end to the war. But we'll never know.

I hope the peace activists have more taste than that. Regardless of whether you think the bombs where justifiable or not I don't see how you can view Van Kirk to be responsible. The decision to drop them was Truman's.

 LuciusAR wrote:
I hope the peace activists have more taste than that. Regardless of whether you think the bombs where justifiable or not I don't see how you can view Van Kirk to be responsible. The decision to drop them was Truman's.

Agreed.

Rest in Peace Mr. Kirk.

 LuciusAR wrote:
I hope the peace activists have more taste than that. Regardless of whether you think the bombs where justifiable or not I don't see how you can view Van Kirk to be responsible. The decision to drop them was Truman's.

They wont, previous members graves have been protested aswell

Not going to lie, I freely admit it's horrible of me, but I really wish I could have seen the bomb go off. That would have to be one heck of an event to witness. At any rate rest in peace to an airman.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

My guess is very little. You gotta remember just how secret the Manhattan project was at the time... My guess is, they had a special loading team load and arm the bomb, and simply told the bomber crew "fly to this altitude, and when you get to this location, drop the bomb from this altitude... then head straight to your exfil/rendezvous point"

Yeah, that makes sense.

I thought they were told some details just before the mission so they knew roughly what to expect. Prior to that they had just agreed to a special mission.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought they were told some details just before the mission so they knew roughly what to expect. Prior to that they had just agreed to a special mission.

Did Enola Gay have an escort?

Two other B-29s, one of which's primary purpose was recording the event. I'm not certain any of them were actually armed. At that point LeMay was running them without guns to increase their flight distance.

 Frazzled wrote:
Two other B-29s, one of which's primary purpose was recording the event. I'm not certain any of them were actually armed. At that point LeMay was running them without guns to increase their flight distance.

Didn't need to be armed. The high altitude of the B29s and the collapse of Japanese air defence, meant that the Americans could bomb at will. They used to drop leaflets on a target warning the civilians to escape, days before the target was bombed.

I seem to recall reading something about a crewman with orders to photograph the effects of the bomb, wasn't sure if it was a crewman of the Enola Gay or not, but it makes sense that it would have have someone on a separate aircraft.

I wonder if the photographer had been given any advance warning as to the scale of the explosion he was expected to photograph? It must have been staggering to witness especially when you consider that no one outside of a select few had any idea of the existence of such a weapon.

I could've swore I've read somewhere that the crews did know prior to dropping the bomb.... that they reviewed the photos/results from the New Mexico testing during the mission briefing.

I simply can't find that info on the 'net at the moment.

In either case, I'm sure it's one thing to "read it" during the mission briefing... and it's entirely something else witnessing first hand.

They were playing some interviews on NPR yesterday with him and he was saying that he knew he was carrying an atomic bomb.

 d-usa wrote:
They were playing some interviews on NPR yesterday with him and he was saying that he knew he was carrying an atomic bomb.

That's right, he said they weren't sure if the shockwaves from the blast would tear the plane apart or not. They dropped the bomb, and got the hell out of there. After a 45 count, the blast went off. 80,000 lives snuffed out, like that.

 LuciusAR wrote:
Regardless of whether you think the bombs where justifiable or not I don't see how you can view Van Kirk to be responsible. The decision to drop them was Truman's.

Agreed. He was just following orders.

So, now tell me:
Who was Enola and why was it so important that he/she was gay?

HiveFleetPlastic wrote:

 LuciusAR wrote:
Regardless of whether you think the bombs where justifiable or not I don't see how you can view Van Kirk to be responsible. The decision to drop them was Truman's.

Agreed. He was just following orders.

I recall many Nazis saying that line...

Iron_Captain wrote:So, now tell me:
Who was Enola and why was it so important that he/she was gay?

See, when I read your posts in political threads I think of a 20 something guy being paid fulltime by the Russian KGB wrapped in a red flag with a hammer and sickle, but then I see posts like this and I go back to thinking "Yup, teen."*



*This is in jest btw, I took my happy pills recently.

They will have had to have some specialist training for the mission as the bomb was very non standard and far more complex + bombers where custom modified versions, I believe program was called silver plate.

They may not have known much but probbly this was not your everyday bombing mission.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
So, now tell me:
Who was Enola and why was it so important that he/she was gay?

Shooting from the hip without Googling

Enola Gay was the name of the pilot wife. Nose Art history

It was called the Enola gay because Japan was about to be royally fethed.