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Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

EW, like most instances of Wounds, is almost always an arbitrary game mechanic used for balance purposes.

It should rarely be seen as related to the fluff.

For the record, it is actually a rather rare USR.

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

Wait where are all these EW you speak of? Most factions get only 1 EW character with exceptions such as Eldar, SW (but that might change), and SM whom can get multiple.

Just like saving throws EW isn't suppose to represent always just tanking wounds, it's a mechanic to represent a guy or gal lucky enough to always scrape by maybe because they are tough maybe they're quick maybe a rock happens to deflect that snipers bullet at the last second, EW is plot armor on the tabletop

 StarTrotter wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

Wait where are all these EW you speak of? Most factions get only 1 EW character with exceptions such as Eldar, SW (but that might change), and SM whom can get multiple.

To be fair there is not that much Eternal Warrior and many of those that make sense have it - it can represent the ability to be recreated - Eldar and Tyranids, protected by the Will of the Emperoro/Faith - Imperial factions - plus forceshields and such can be virtually impenetrable.

Which specific instances of Eternal Warrior do you have an issue with?

Not to mention, in the fluff it is shown as them being sow determined the are not going to let this hurt them.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

Wait where are all these EW you speak of? Most factions get only 1 EW character with exceptions such as Eldar, SW (but that might change), and SM whom can get multiple.

To be fair there is not that much Eternal Warrior and many of those that make sense have it - it can represent the ability to be recreated - Eldar and Tyranids, protected by the Will of the Emperoro/Faith - Imperial factions - plus forceshields and such can be virtually impenetrable.

Which specific instances of Eternal Warrior do you have an issue with?

Can we start with Calgar? The Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, space marine or not, shouldn't survive a direct hit from the guns of a strike cruiser.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not to mention, in the fluff it is shown as them being sow determined the are not going to let this hurt them.

I'm pretty sure that the guns of a strike cruiser, used in orbital bombardment, don't leave injuries that can be pushed through. Being turned to red paste is being turned to red paste.

He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

 Mr Morden wrote:
He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

It hits as hard as a Tau railgun or one of those Necron arrows. I think there's something about not posting rules on the site.

... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

It hits as hard as a Tau railgun or one of those Necron arrows. I think there's something about not posting rules on the site.

... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

He has a Iron Halo - "an energy field that wards against even the most potent enemy weapons

Force shields mean such weapons can just bounce off - like in any other SF universe ?

 EmpNortonII wrote:
[
... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

Perhaps the force of the shot was dissipated by the armour or forcefield as it didn't hit plumb on. Maybe it simply grazed. Very possibly one of the many bionic parts of Calgar and which left his biological body remained.

It's not supposed to be taken as Calgar simply surviving a direct orbital strike. Much like how losing wounds doesn't hinder combat performance and how all non-Psychic Space Marines should probably have the same number of wounds rather than a Captain essentially having more lives.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

It hits as hard as a Tau railgun or one of those Necron arrows. I think there's something about not posting rules on the site.

... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

He has a Iron Halo - "an energy field that wards against even the most potent enemy weapons

Force shields mean such weapons can just bounce off - like in any other SF universe ?

... and a generic terminator can take an Iron Halo, but doesn't get the same rule. Why?

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

It hits as hard as a Tau railgun or one of those Necron arrows. I think there's something about not posting rules on the site.

... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

He has a Iron Halo - "an energy field that wards against even the most potent enemy weapons

Force shields mean such weapons can just bounce off - like in any other SF universe ?

... and a generic terminator can take an Iron Halo, but doesn't get the same rule. Why?

No, they can't. Recheck your codex.

In Calgar's case, much like that of Abaddon or Ghazghkull, it can arguably be explained that 'the hand of fate is upon them.'

 Ashiraya wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

It hits as hard as a Tau railgun or one of those Necron arrows. I think there's something about not posting rules on the site.

... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

He has a Iron Halo - "an energy field that wards against even the most potent enemy weapons

Force shields mean such weapons can just bounce off - like in any other SF universe ?

... and a generic terminator can take an Iron Halo, but doesn't get the same rule. Why?

No, they can't. Recheck your codex.

In Calgar's case, much like that of Abaddon or Ghazghkull, it can arguably be explained that 'the hand of fate is upon them.'

Right- I'm thinking Storm Shield... which gives a better save. I could, however, say that any "generic" Chapter Master comes with an Iron halo and does not get the same rule. Why?

Depends on at what point you could imagine how they "survived".

To hit: solid hit vs. grazing but still a hit.

Wound: Chest-head shot vs. arm / leg / backpack hit vs. regenerative / reinforced bodies / medical dispensing.

Armor: Blast Protection: Hardened/inflexible/interior padding / full body covering vs. Small Arms: flexible / targeted plates.

Cover / Invulnerable saves: You can't see me!, shot pre-detonates hitting a branch, energy field deflects it just enough, it is magic!!!

"Forge your own narrative" of how a standard guard manages to survive a main cannon shot: just barely far enough away for the armor to absorb the blast and ragdoll far enough away to avoid the heat and only broke an arm landing! Good to go! (Plus the Commissar was watching...).

If you want more realism in your shooting results go look up some Rolemaster (ICE product) charts or use the concept of "Megadamage" from Palladium (you will regret it however...).

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
He might not - depsite the best armour the Imperium can make and a force field he might succumb as this woud be a D weapon ? (I dont have 7th Ed and so not sure if they still wremove people from play?

Going back to the tank analogy - he is bascially a walking super tank anyway - so surviving strikes by AT weapons is possible - plenty of this in history -

It hits as hard as a Tau railgun or one of those Necron arrows. I think there's something about not posting rules on the site.

... at any rate, I've not bumped into any Necron fluff where one of those arrows were used, but I have bumped into Tau fluff stating that a railgun hits an Imperial tank hard enough that the vacuum from the slug passing through will suck the crewmen out of the hole that is much smaller than a full-grown person. Presumably, the same sort of thing would happen to terminator armor. Calgar'd just be a trail of jelly after being hit. Like I said, you can survive shrapnel or a burn or losing a limb. You don't survive being turned into red paste.

He has a Iron Halo - "an energy field that wards against even the most potent enemy weapons

Force shields mean such weapons can just bounce off - like in any other SF universe ?

... and a generic terminator can take an Iron Halo, but doesn't get the same rule. Why?

No, they can't. Recheck your codex.

In Calgar's case, much like that of Abaddon or Ghazghkull, it can arguably be explained that 'the hand of fate is upon them.'

Right- I'm thinking Storm Shield... which gives a better save. I could, however, say that any "generic" Chapter Master comes with an Iron halo and does not get the same rule. Why?

They can if they take the Shield Eternal

I know the fluff shows Phoenix Lords getting taken down on occasion.

Karandras "died" in Path of the Warrior, however, due to Eldar trickery, he soon comes back to life.

It's less wargear and more in-game plot armour, is essentially what's happened with the Eternal Warrior special rule.

It's also to justify the horrendous points costs of some of the characters so you know they won't get ID'd by a meltagun.

Don't D weapons have the chance of killing models outright even if they have eternal warrior (I skipped the super heavies section in the rule book)?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

Wait where are all these EW you speak of? Most factions get only 1 EW character with exceptions such as Eldar, SW (but that might change), and SM whom can get multiple.

To be fair there is not that much Eternal Warrior and many of those that make sense have it - it can represent the ability to be recreated - Eldar and Tyranids, protected by the Will of the Emperoro/Faith - Imperial factions - plus forceshields and such can be virtually impenetrable.

Which specific instances of Eternal Warrior do you have an issue with?

Miscommunication, I was more perplexed at the part of claiming every special snowflake can tank it is wrong. For the most part, characters will die to anti-vehicle weapons as is normal. Even the veterans of the long war (CSM) only have 1 character with EW, one upgrade in a supplement hardly anybody plays that is very pricey being the only other option. As per EW, my only gripe is the cheap and deadly shield SM can get and the named herald of khorne (why would you give a 2W forced into challenges EW?)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Random Dude wrote:
Don't D weapons have the chance of killing models outright even if they have eternal warrior (I skipped the super heavies section in the rule book)?

Not anymore I don't think. D got nerfed pretty hard. It can kill by making them roll a ton of wounds that statistically should almost always kill them though or something

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

Wait where are all these EW you speak of? Most factions get only 1 EW character with exceptions such as Eldar, SW (but that might change), and SM whom can get multiple.

To be fair there is not that much Eternal Warrior and many of those that make sense have it - it can represent the ability to be recreated - Eldar and Tyranids, protected by the Will of the Emperoro/Faith - Imperial factions - plus forceshields and such can be virtually impenetrable.

Which specific instances of Eternal Warrior do you have an issue with?

Can we start with Calgar? The Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, space marine or not, shouldn't survive a direct hit from the guns of a strike cruiser.

But it is CALGAR! The BEST and most HONORABLE and BIGGEST of all the SPESS MUHREENS. He would never fall to such things, as he is an ULTRAMARINE!!

I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Even with EW, most characters will die if they are hit by D weapons.

 Random Dude wrote:
I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Even with EW, most characters will die if they are hit by D weapons.

The point isn't just D weapons, its about when someone survived things that really should utterly destroy them.

If a Guardsman gets hit by a lascannon, he's gone. No amount of faith in the spess emprah is going to fix being mostly evaporated by a man-portable laser-based WMD.

 Selym wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Even with EW, most characters will die if they are hit by D weapons.

The point isn't just D weapons, its about when someone survived things that really should utterly destroy them.

If a Guardsman gets hit by a lascannon, he's gone. No amount of faith in the spess emprah is going to fix being mostly evaporated by a man-portable laser-based WMD.

Don't worry, the Lascannon player rolled an 1 to wound. The Guardsman can walk it off.

Hey people, nids don't have a single EW character. It is quite a rare rule.

 Selym wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Even with EW, most characters will die if they are hit by D weapons.

The point isn't just D weapons, its about when someone survived things that really should utterly destroy them.

If a Guardsman gets hit by a lascannon, he's gone. No amount of faith in the spess emprah is going to fix being mostly evaporated by a man-portable laser-based WMD.

But in this setting faith can cause literal miracles.
The EW rule is an in game abstraction, not a fluff benchmark.

Animus wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
I don't really understand the premise of this thread. Even with EW, most characters will die if they are hit by D weapons.

The point isn't just D weapons, its about when someone survived things that really should utterly destroy them.

If a Guardsman gets hit by a lascannon, he's gone. No amount of faith in the spess emprah is going to fix being mostly evaporated by a man-portable laser-based WMD.

But in this setting faith can cause literal miracles.
The EW rule is an in game abstraction, not a fluff benchmark.

Guardsmen don't typically have EW. The point was that it makes little sense for certain things to survive shots that would splatter them to death etc. Nukes never roll a 1 to wound, because whatever they hit will be destroyed. Why does the same not happen for certain things in the 40k TT?

 Selym wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
Has anyone seen a video of what the main gun of an M-1 tank can do to another tank?

With Eternal Warrior being handed around like Halloween candy, it seems ridiculous that in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium, everyone and their brother can survive a direct hit to the chest with a 120mm tank round... to say nothing of, say, a rail gun slug or direct orbital bombardment from a Space Marine strike cruiser.

Where's the Grimdarkness of every special snowflake taking the same amount of damage from a tank round as big as his head as from a bolter round to the foot?

Wait where are all these EW you speak of? Most factions get only 1 EW character with exceptions such as Eldar, SW (but that might change), and SM whom can get multiple.

To be fair there is not that much Eternal Warrior and many of those that make sense have it - it can represent the ability to be recreated - Eldar and Tyranids, protected by the Will of the Emperoro/Faith - Imperial factions - plus forceshields and such can be virtually impenetrable.

Which specific instances of Eternal Warrior do you have an issue with?

Can we start with Calgar? The Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, space marine or not, shouldn't survive a direct hit from the guns of a strike cruiser.

But it is CALGAR! The BEST and most HONORABLE and BIGGEST of all the SPESS MUHREENS. He would never fall to such things, as he is an ULTRAMARINE!!

Lysander has it too, so you can't claim this is some Matt Ward driven ultramarines favortism.

GW useally tends to give the one super expensive HQ unit in each codex EW. Codex Space Marines snagged two as you cou;dn't take calgar with lysander as part of the same detachment

No amount of faith in the spess emprah is going to fix being mostly evaporated by a man-portable laser-based WMD

Then you dont have enough Faith

Adepta Sororitas Codex - every single one of them has a 6+ Invuln (or better) including the vehicles. They can (and have in my games) taken a lascannon, that nasty AP2 Eldar flamer and other powerful weapons full on and walked away beacuse "The Emperor Protects".

In this case its not shields or fancy gear - their God protects them................

I know the answer to this question. It is..........JUST A GAME of toy soldiers. Bamm done.

/thread.