Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I figure that the Salamander Chapter being a First Founding chapter and all, it would have been written if their Chapter Banner was lost in combat. But then again, it is not uncommon for Games Workshop to forget these kind of details...

So, my oldest Space Marine Codex (2006) reads only the Ultramarines has an Honour Guard squad, and they are tasked with one main thing – guarding the Chapter Banner.
The Space Marine Codex from 2008 has a lot more to it. More description about their unit, wargear and so forth, but one of their main task is to guard and carry the Chapter Banner – the other is to act as the Chapter Master retinue. In fact, they seems more to be a counsel for the Chapter Master and other Captains rather than a fighting unit. The latest Codex has the exact same description as the 2008 version.


According to all these three books, Company Command squads are not allowed to carry the Chapter Banner, only the Honour Guards are.
Anyway, neither the Firedrakes Command squad or the Honour Guards squad is something I ever recall reading about from either codex, badab war or the Nick Kyme novels

Since Tu'shan has the honour to play a dubble-role as both Captain and Chapter Master, it would be strange if he had both a Company Command and an Honour Guard squad. Leaving me, at least, thinking that they miss either a Chapter or a Firedrake Banner, unless the banner of the 1st Company is the same as the Chapter Banner (which would be weird since the Firedrakes has an different logo than the other companies).

But since Tu'shan is both the Chapter Master(until Vulkan returns?) and 1st Company Captain he should have a retinue accordingly to the Codex Astrates that carry his company/chapter banner, protect him in battle and act as his counsel, even thou I have faint memory saying the entire Firedrakes is his retinue...

I knew Tu'shan was Chapter Master. Why exactly is he a Captain also? Is this in a book or something?

 Kriswall wrote:
I knew Tu'shan was Chapter Master. Why exactly is he a Captain also? Is this in a book or something?

It is just the way the Salamanders do it. They only maintain 7 companies, and until Vulkan returns the 1st company captain is also considered the chapter master.

Salamanders don't follow the Codex format of 1000 marines. Their strength is probably closer to 900 due to only fielding 7 over strength companies (120 *7 =840) plus scouts and other administrative marines (chaplains, tech, Forgemasters...).

Most likely, 10-20 Firedrakes would make up an honor guard to protect the captain/ regent chapter master. There is no fluff basis for this, merely conjecture by me. It is also possible that guarding the chapter banner so zealously is something Guilliman's boys tried to foist upon the sons of Vulkan that he simply said "no" to.

I'm all for blinged out firedrakes though!

FM Argos

Thanks for the input guys, I just wanted to show you the resent thing I found out about this topic:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Salamanders



According to this article about the Salamanders, there is a Chapter Standard Bearer in the organization chart, making at least me think there is some sort Honour Guard squad to carry it, perhaps some Pyre Guards?

There is likely both. A 1st Company Command squad who do their duty as a Command Squad to defend the First Captain and an Honour Guard who guard the banner and the First Captain, but primarily the Banner.


And as far as the Salamanders are concerned, the First Captain is acting commander of the chapter and are seen as a Regent until Vulkan returns. Unlike the Chapter Masters of the likes of the Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Imperial Fists where the Chapter Master is the predecessor to the Primarch because the Primarch is dead as doornails. Or successor chapters like the Black Templars because Sigismund is dead.